Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#101      
Second place is 1st loser
You wrote 5 paragraphs responding to a post that you skipped over. :)

The gist of what I was/am saying is that nobody can form expectations yet. Like you accurately said, we don't know what the roster is going to be. How can we begin to even come close to coming to any hard conclusions. We can't.

With regards to our insiders, they are the most valued people on this board because they have proven, unequivocally, to be the most tuned in during a time in college athletics where absolutely nothing is a for sure. The "booms" excite and get 90% of the board excited and refreshing all week(and this is a compliment to those insiders). I, AGAIN, agree with you that you partner that with the rest of the enormous rumors on the internet.

My contention is based on all of these rumors is that we don't have the amount of NIL, comparatively, than our top competitors. When our insiders, for the most part, are 80% right during the season.....go to 0% right with the top targets that we're "booming', to me..... we're being outbid. We don't have the resources that we thought we have, again, comparatively. This is two years running where these same circumstances are occurring.

Many, not all, of our fans considered last season as not meeting expectations. We had the youngest team in college basketball. Why is that? It's recruiting and Brad either intentionally wanted to go young or he just flat out whiffed on his top transfer choices. Then again, why did that happen?

So, back to your point....what are the expectations when it comes to recruiting and when it comes to Brad this year?

Indy and I came to the same conclusion. At this point, all we can grade Brad on is his choice of coaches on his staff. That's the only controllable aspect at this point. He can't control NIL, he can't control his resources and he can't control other team's spending. If he runs the same coaching staff out there and we fail in the same manner......now, we have to look hard at Brad.

Same disclaimer.....these opinions are my own and I am as FOS as everyone else on this board when it comes to truly knowing what's going on.
 
#104      
CubIllini
PepeSilvia said:
I could potentially see Sampson riding into the sunset if he wins a title but Kellen Sampson already has a contract designating him the head coach in waiting when Kelvin retires.

I also wouldn't necessarily be surprised to see Self hang it up if he isn't fully invested anymore.

I don't really see Tang or anyone else getting fired this late in the cycle unless it's some type of for cause violation.
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My guess is Self
 
#108      
OrangeBlue98
Almost by process of elimination, the Big 12 opening would seem to be one of four schools.

Kansas
Kansas State
Colorado
UCF

I tossed CU and UCF in because they just finished their seasons this week in the Court Jester tournament (OK, I kid a little). If they didn't immediately part ways with Boyle (CU) or Dawkins (UCF), then they would wait until their post-season is done.

Based on the timing of things, I also would place my money on Self retiring. No insider information or anything like that. It feels like the timing is more like a coach voluntarily leaving than being forced out. And if it's a coach voluntarily leaving, they sure seems like Self. The day he retires, he'll have every network bidding for his services on TV.
 
#109      
OrangeBlue98
americanoutlaw11 said:
When I was Young
I Drew up poems and puns
that were a Tad bit dumb,
and I Grant you
should have just kept them all to mySelf.
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Snoop Bruno Mars GIF by Morphin
 
#110      
Fighter of the Nightman
BfosterL said:
THIS. A large % of folks on here use the BU makes top 10 money and Illinois is top 10 NIL to back their case against BU yet both are NOT true. Illinois is probably close to 20 - 25 in NIL rankings
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And how do you know that?

I swear some of you actually feel uncomfortable with the reality that Illinois is a state flagship school for a massive state rather than this University of East Central Illinois with a small, tight-knit fan base of only alumni.

There have been multiple reports that we have excellent NIL. There have been ZERO that we are middle of the pack. Since both can’t be 100% verified, I feel like people are choosing to believe what they’d prefer … and it’s bizarre any Illini fan wouldn’t default toward the former.

We are closer to Michigan than Wake Forest in terms of fan base dynamics … big fan base with plenty of money, and we care about hoops.
 
#111      
PortalGiant
EyeoftheIllini said:
I’m trying to figure out how someone on an internet board saying a particular player is coming to Illinois and being wrong about it impacts expectations for a season. You think if we didn’t have insiders on the board, speculation or information that turned out not to pan out wouldn’t happen? Not sure why someone saying we’re in a good spot with a player is the cause of people jumping the gun and posting speculative starting lineups on here. I find those posts silly and skip right over them just as I skip over the posts on lineups using only the players currently on the roster, as if no other adds will be made.

I personally feel that the expectations some people have for Brad and team are a bit too high (call them the national champ or bust contingent). That said, I think Brad is entering the phase of his tenure at Illinois where he needs more top end results than he’s had. And I think to lay roster construction that you apparently don’t like at the alter of not enough NIL is a bit of a joke. You think Josh is paying Brad the money he is, having a pretty sizable AC salary pool and providing top facilities, but not finding a very competitive NIL pool for the program? I didn’t realize you held him in that low of esteem. Roster construction and retention is on Brad not on some insider posting GIFS.

I find posts like yours and one I saw recently about Hamer and the boards response to him insulting to me and a large portion of the board. Apparently a large number of us aren’t smart enough to form opinions or expectations for ourselves and turn that over to a small group of insiders. But evidently you and some others are smart enough to not fall victim to “Boom” GIFS and have your own opinions and expectations.

Overall, I’m happy with Brad’s record, but it is time he steps it up. He’s making decisions that don’t make a lot of sense to me, and I’d include Hamer in there. That’s fine, I’m not a coach, I don’t run a P5 basketball program, and I’m not privy to all the behind the scenes happenings. But he has to start getting more of these decisions right. And by that I don’t mean that I agree with them or that insiders do. I mean more consistent top end success. Elite Eight year was great. We need Brad to lead team to those types of years more consistently. I don’t want to see posts on here in 5 five years defending Brad cuz we’ve had one E8 finish in 7 years and a string of seasons of NCAAT appearances and early exits.

Disclosure: the opinions expressed in this post are mine alone. I did not consult any insiders or lsearch for recent GIFs to form this opinion.
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While I would agree with this Brad himself put this expectation on himself saying his intention is to win the national title. So that should be the expectation per coach himself. If you put that out there and end middle Big Ten and don't make 2nd weekend then that's a failure of a season. Especially when this is the most talented team he ever had per himself and 2yr plan that turned into not being 2yr plan when nobody really comes back.
 
#112      
BfosterL
Fighter of the Nightman said:
And how do you know that?

I swear some of you actually feel uncomfortable with the reality that Illinois is a state flagship school for a massive state rather than this University of East Central Illinois with a small, tight-knit fan base of only alumni.

There have been multiple reports that we have excellent NIL. There have been ZERO that we are middle of the pack. Since both can’t be 100% verified, I feel like people are choosing to believe what they’d prefer … and it’s bizarre any Illini fan wouldn’t default toward the former.

We are closer to Michigan than Wake Forest in terms of fan base dynamics … big fan base with plenty of money, and we care about hoops.
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I'm very comfortable stating U of I is the flagship school in Illinois, and we do have excellent NIL. 20-25 in the country based on 350 plus teams is something to be proud of, but we are certainly not in the top 10. Off the top of my head without looking I can name 10 schools with more bball NIL to spend: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Arkansas, Texas, UConn, North Carolina, Indiana. WE do not have top 10 NIL and that is my point, people use that against BU yet it is not true. That is my only point
 
#113      
illinifan1987
BfosterL said:
I'm very comfortable stating U of I is the flagship school in Illinois, and we do have excellent NIL. 20-25 in the country based on 350 plus teams is something to be proud of, but we are certainly not in the top 10. Off the top of my head without looking I can name 10 schools with more bball NIL to spend: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Arkansas, Texas, UConn, North Carolina, Indiana. WE do not have top 10 NIL and that is my point, people use that against BU yet it is not true. That is my only point
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Calm Down Cool It GIF
 
#115      
the juiceman cometh
Fighter of the Nightman said:
And how do you know that?

I swear some of you actually feel uncomfortable with the reality that Illinois is a state flagship school for a massive state rather than this University of East Central Illinois with a small, tight-knit fan base of only alumni.

There have been multiple reports that we have excellent NIL. There have been ZERO that we are middle of the pack. Since both can’t be 100% verified, I feel like people are choosing to believe what they’d prefer … and it’s bizarre any Illini fan wouldn’t default toward the former.

We are closer to Michigan than Wake Forest in terms of fan base dynamics … big fan base with plenty of money, and we care about hoops.
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We don't know that. We also don't know that our NIL is top 10.

I would point out that there are enough programs that between last season and this offseason so far do at least looking they're outspending us, to be very skeptical of the top-10 claims: Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Michigan, Texas, UCLA, Louisville, Arkansas, BYU, Kansas St. (ahead of us last season per insiders). That's already 12.

I'm sure the "top-10" thing being thrown around is more in line with - we have good NIL which ourpaces most high majors and is probably somewhere in the 10-40 range, but we have no real way of knowing where in that range it lies.
 
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#116      
AZILL
BfosterL:

That's 9...... But I don't seen anyone claiming we are top 10. Excellent would put us, using Giorgi's words, in AMAZING territory 2nd tier in other words. Which to my Illini biased fandom puts us in the 11-20 range, maybe in a given year top 25. It will fluctuate with the spots that are open and is also dependent upon who is available that the staff thinks we have a real chance of getting. I guarantee you if there were a local kid who grew up an Illinois fan that was a top 10 recruit, the money would be found! I'm gonna fill in your 10th spot with BYU.... Cheers my friend, I-L-L !!!
 
#118      
Illini 993
BfosterL said:
I'm very comfortable stating U of I is the flagship school in Illinois, and we do have excellent NIL. 20-25 in the country based on 350 plus teams is something to be proud of, but we are certainly not in the top 10. Off the top of my head without looking I can name 10 schools with more bball NIL to spend: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Arkansas, Texas, UConn, North Carolina, Indiana. WE do not have top 10 NIL and that is my point, people use that against BU yet it is not true. That is my only point
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Do you have any source for this? Or are you just posting your opinion as fact?
 
#119      
the juiceman cometh
AZILL said:
BfosterL:

That's 9...... But I don't seen anyone claiming we are top 10. Excellent would put us, using Giorgi's words, in AMAZING territory 2nd tier in other words. Which to my Illini biased fandom puts us in the 11-20 range, maybe in a given year top 25. It will fluctuate with the spots that are open and is also dependent upon who is available that the staff thinks we have a real chance of getting. I guarantee you if there were a local kid who grew up an Illinois fan that was a top 10 recruit, the money would be found! I'm gonna fill in your 10th spot with BYU.... Cheers my friend, I-L-L !!!
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This claim has been made so many times on this board a lot of posters will say "top-10 NIL" as if it's an indisputable fact, usually when voicing frustration with BU for not delivering "top-10 results."
 
#121      
EyeoftheIllini
PortalGiant said:
While I would agree with this Brad himself put this expectation on himself saying his intention is to win the national title. So that should be the expectation per coach himself. If you put that out there and end middle Big Ten and don't make 2nd weekend then that's a failure of a season. Especially when this is the most talented team he ever had per himself and 2yr plan that turned into not being 2yr plan when nobody really comes back.
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I don’t doubt Brad has high expectations for every team, but we expect to win NC and this is the most talented team I’ve had are coach speak as far as I’m concerned. How many coaches, especially ones at top programs, say, well we hope to finish at least third in the conference or after getting a bid say, we’re happy, not really concerned about the first game cuz we hit our goal. Rarely do coaches of top programs not set their expectations at the highest level. I didn’t see it, but do you think in his introductory press conference at Texas Sean Miller said, “I think we can be a pretty good program. I expect us to make the NCAAT most years and maybe get Sweet 16 every once in awhile”? Yeah that’s what the fans, players and prospective players want to hear. And the “most talented team ever” is definitely coach speak.

I don’t think I ever said that I think this season was a success. It wasn’t in my book. If they had made the Final Four though, I would consider it a great year even if it didn’t meet BU’s “expectation.” I think quite a few people on here would have too.

I think many on here feel as I do, BU has done a good job bringing this program back and had some successes. Now it’s time to increase the magnitude and frequencies of the successes. For some that means one thing, National Championship. Of course, that is what all of us want, but I don’t consider not achieving that necessarily a failure of a year. My general expectations for the program are contending for conference title (top 2 or 3 consistently) and second week of tournament. There will be years Illini don’t reach that. Fine, “down” years happen, plans go awry. But I also expect some years to exceed that expectation. And where the program is and the resources available, the latter years should be far more frequent than former.
 
#122      
sbillini
the juiceman cometh said:
This claim has been made so many times on this board a lot of posters will say "top-10 NIL" as if it's an indisputable fact, usually when voicing frustration with BU for not delivering "top-10 results."
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I know for sure insider(s) have stated we are top-tier in the Big 10 for NIL. i believe they've also said top 10 nationally as well in the past, but not as confident about that, but if we're top tier in the Big 10, we're probably not too far off top 10ish nationally if not already in it.

Whether all the above claims are true or not, I don't know. I have my doubts anyone really does.
 
#123      
Indy Illini Fan
BfosterL said:
I'm very comfortable stating U of I is the flagship school in Illinois, and we do have excellent NIL. 20-25 in the country based on 350 plus teams is something to be proud of, but we are certainly not in the top 10. Off the top of my head without looking I can name 10 schools with more bball NIL to spend: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Arkansas, Texas, UConn, North Carolina, Indiana. WE do not have top 10 NIL and that is my point, people use that against BU yet it is not true. That is my only point
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Texas didn’t spend more NIL than we did …

Michigan didn’t spend more NIL than we did …

UConn & UNC were right there with us …

Indiana, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Arkansas … All spent more … No doubt about that …

Even if your argument is we have top 15 NIL (which we definitely do) … We have top 2 NIL in the Big Ten …

Unacceptable to finish 7th this year in conference … Unacceptable not to make the 2nd weekend … Unacceptable to get absolutely embarrassed and blown out multiple times in year 8 … Unacceptable to have the worst loss in program history in year 8 … Period …
 
#124      
NarrowJ
Indy Illini Fan said:
Unacceptable to finish 7th this year in conference … Unacceptable not to make the 2nd weekend … Unacceptable to get absolutely embarrassed and blown out multiple times in year 8 … Unacceptable to have the worst loss in program history in year 8 … Period …
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Damn... he really !!!! the bed this season - why didn't Josh fire him within an hour after our loss to Kentucky?

Instead, our booster support has increased ($2M more NIL this season) and he apparently isn't being forced to make any staff changes

Something isn't passing the sniff test here

EDIT: Not arguing any point you've made, just saying it doesn't make any sense to me and I want to understand why you and Whitman (and apparently the boosters/NIL funding folks) are so far apart on this
 
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#125      
Second place is 1st loser
I think that you have to take HOW the money was sent into consideration. Having the youngest roster in college basketball, adding an unprecedented run of illness/injury and when replacing an entirely new roster(10 new guys??), you're not going to get max production out of all of them.

That was a ton to juggle. We finished exactly where we were picked to finish when the season started. We weren't a top 25 team and I don't think that anybody(outside of our goggled fans) had us making a run. Rutgers is going to have two top 10 picks(obviously young) and they almost didn't make the cut for the BTT.

There's what we want, there's what we hope, there are various sets of circumstances (good and bad) that effect outcomes, there are guys having terrible games at terrible times(Riley vs KY)....it all happens.

October - March was a roller coaster. It was fun as heck at times and it was frustrating as heck at other times. That was expected with disease making it more expected at just terrible times.

It's not just as easy as picking the finish line(7th) and just tuning out the road there. It was wild.

I'm in agreement with you. The staff needs to be altered and the maturity make up of the team needs to be altered. That's all that BU has control over....at this point.
 
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