Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#26      
Illwinsagain
Indy Illini Fan said:
I’ve been complaining about our X&O’s since Gentry left … Our defensive schemes, offensive schemes, OOB, SLOB, OOTO stuff is absolutely atrocious …

Last year our defense was an absolute 💩 show down the stretch … This year was even worse … That is Hamer’s job … That’s what he’s paid a quarter of a million dollars every year to do and he’s not good at it and should be fired …

Our defense looks decent in non con until actual coaches pick it apart and we refuse to make adjustments …

Domask & TJ with Hawkins could’ve had anyone coaching them and produced a top 10 offense … This year all we did was jack 3s … And when we kept bricking ? More 3s … No adjustments …

How many times has Brad had to go to spread during Christmas break because the scheme wasn’t working ? Good adjustment but why are we having to make the adjustment … Why did we not plan ahead and have multiple schemes ready to go ?

Why do we have to have players suggest changes to get anything changed ? Why are we benching players when they suggest changes that clearly work ?

That’s my frustration and ever since Gentry left … The coaching in game has not been great …
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Sorry that I missed the weekend's events. There was an implication that changes were not going to be made now. Has something changed?
 
#28      
GrayGhost77
skyIdub said:
Loyalty Karens would like to speak with the Insiders Manager please. Thanks.
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Haircut Karen GIF by moodman
 
#29      
Second place is 1st loser
Indy Illini Fan said:
I’ve been complaining about our X&O’s since Gentry left … Our defensive schemes, offensive schemes, OOB, SLOB, OOTO stuff is absolutely atrocious …

Last year our defense was an absolute 💩 show down the stretch … This year was even worse … That is Hamer’s job … That’s what he’s paid a quarter of a million dollars every year to do and he’s not good at it and should be fired …

Our defense looks decent in non con until actual coaches pick it apart and we refuse to make adjustments …

Domask & TJ with Hawkins could’ve had anyone coaching them and produced a top 10 offense … This year all we did was jack 3s … And when we kept bricking ? More 3s … No adjustments …

How many times has Brad had to go to spread during Christmas break because the scheme wasn’t working ? Good adjustment but why are we having to make the adjustment … Why did we not plan ahead and have multiple schemes ready to go ?

Why do we have to have players suggest changes to get anything changed ? Why are we benching players when they suggest changes that clearly work ?

That’s my frustration and ever since Gentry left … The coaching in game has not been great …
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You know FAR FAR FAR more than the rest of us. There's no doubt. I, again JMO, think that we need to be careful to where we assign blame because this season, based on ALL of our frustration....it's fallen on two guys.

The way people talk about Hamer and the venom spewed at him, the same for Ben.....it's short sighted.

If everyone on this board loaded into a bar and had a legit discussion about this season, I believe that we'd come to the conclusion that this was a team wide and unfortunate situation issue.

We can pick apart everyone from KJ after the Oregon game to Will versus Kentucky as the difference between 25 to 26 wins and a win versus a team like Kentucky and the second weekend of the tournament. If Will plays versus Kentucky, as he did against Xavier....we win. If the wild turnovers and awful shooting during the year(across the board) we're at least average.....we have a bye in the BTT.

I think that we need to be careful when we do the autopsy on the season because we ALL can find a hole that sprung a leak and again..... we don't ever enter the 6 weeks of not having a full roster and full practice time into consideration.

So, while you might be spot on with Hamer.....there are about 7 guys who had the biggest hands in the season's outcome
 
#32      
skyIdub
Second place is 1st loser said:
If everyone on this board loaded into a bar and had a legit discussion about this season, I believe that we'd come to the conclusion that this was a team wide and unfortunate situation issue.
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Ummm, I’m literally gonna be the guy standing on the bar leading the “FIRE HAMER” chant. And I’ll probably have to hockey check Indy to beat him to it.
 
#33      
Battle89
the juiceman cometh said:
I agree we should be a little less harsh when an insider gives us info that doesn't end up materializing. I will say though, that my interpretation of what drove 0400 off is a bit different than yours. He bowed out when this board was going into hysterics about how Tyler supposedly was single handedly causing an exodus of players. Tyler's status with the coaching staff appears to be an issue in which the insiders are very much not aligned. I think BU's future with the team is another such issue.

I think where at least some of the questioning/criticism (some of it valid, a good amount not so much) comes from these more ambiguous issues where conflicting information/opinion is coming from insiders who have given us good and valuable info in the past.
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Somebody said a while ago (sorry I don't recall exactly who) that the current topic was really painting a picture of which insiders seemed to be affiliated inside the organization vs. externally. Info is largely the same (excepting issues like the above) but the POV is sometimes very different.

Nothing to it, and who knows if such assumptions about affiliation are even correct. I don't. But I found it interesting.

As always, thanks to all the insiders for what they are comfortable providing.
 
#34      
pruman91
NarrowJ said:
Old thread was closed while I was responding to the Brad/Whitman discussion, so here are my thoughts and then I'll get lost for a while because I'm sure a lot of you are sick of me:

You were told there would be less NIL funding... March 29th you were told "we're on the fast track" to donor money drying up... On Feb 7 you were told 'if changes are not made to staff there will be major problems getting same amount of NIL Brad got last season... this is where Whitman will step in'

None of this happened, we have $2M more NIL this year than last year (ie, increased funding & support)

You were told Brad would be forced into staff changes... Feb 23rd you were told Whitman is 'ultimately the guy who has to sign off' on staff firings... now that its became obvious we are keeping everyone, that's no longer the case and its all up to Brad and Whitman must watch the ship sink to the bottom before he can do anything... Feb 15th you were told 'there are things [Whitman] can't stand behind anymore' and now we're being told the opposite... Feb 7th you were told 'at minimum there will be 1 new assistant, would prefer 3 maybe 4 changes but guessing we'll see 2 maybe 3'...

None of this happened either
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YET.............
 
#35      
HereSoIDontGetFined
All valid questions. The lack of quick adjustment is kind of a Brad staple, though. I don't know if it necessarily has to do with his assistants at all.

Thinking back on the Loyola game, for example. We just kept trying different ways to feed it inside and kept getting it stolen, or putting Kofi in a less-than-optimal position to score. That happened for basically the entire game and we had no answer. It is definitely about having multiple schemes ready to go which you can switch at the drop of a hat.
 
#36      
Kilgore Trout
Given how universal the condemnation of our last years defensive "plan" and execution were, can anybody explain why BU is seemingly so attached to Hamer? If he is hearing from our AD, from big NIL contributors, etc that a change is needed, is there any other explanation other than BU just refusing to admit he made a mistake in placing the defense in the hands of an inexperienced assistant?
 
#37      
TheodoreRex
Indy Illini Fan said:
I’ve been complaining about our X&O’s since Gentry left … Our defensive schemes, offensive schemes, OOB, SLOB, OOTO stuff is absolutely atrocious …

Last year our defense was an absolute 💩 show down the stretch … This year was even worse … That is Hamer’s job … That’s what he’s paid a quarter of a million dollars every year to do and he’s not good at it and should be fired …

Our defense looks decent in non con until actual coaches pick it apart and we refuse to make adjustments …

Domask & TJ with Hawkins could’ve had anyone coaching them and produced a top 10 offense … This year all we did was jack 3s … And when we kept bricking ? More 3s … No adjustments …

How many times has Brad had to go to spread during Christmas break because the scheme wasn’t working ? Good adjustment but why are we having to make the adjustment … Why did we not plan ahead and have multiple schemes ready to go ?

Why do we have to have players suggest changes to get anything changed ? Why are we benching players when they suggest changes that clearly work ?

That’s my frustration and ever since Gentry left … The coaching in game has not been great …
Click to expand...
Shoot, even going iso with Domask last year was a recommendation from another coach (I think it was Jay Wright?) I just definitive recall hearing the story that another coach suggested to Underwood for us to booty ball with Domask...
 
#38      
RabidDawgClassic
My issues are less with the honest discussions about what needs to be changed defensively — something obviously needs to be done there — and more so about the sophomoric sniping and juvenile name calling. It reeks of Biff Tannen surrounded by his group of sycophantic yes men lackeys.

I seriously doubt most people here would even know what Hamer’s role on the staff would be without one very vocal, and very influential person’s opinion of him. And I respect that person’s take. He’s connected and has a level of insight that most of us don’t. It’s the rest of you who just accept it at face value and pile on as if his thoughts are yours.

As for the leggings? Come on… that’s middle school girls level of sniping. And I suspect most if you who are piling in that ridiculous train are hardly fine fashion specimens yourself — probably wearing the same worn out hoodie for the fifth day in a row and undersized jeans exposing a massive beer gut. Reeks of jealousy, if you ask me.
 
#39      
NarrowJ
skyIdub said:
Ummm, I’m literally gonna be the guy standing on the bar leading the “FIRE HAMER” chant. And I’ll probably have to hockey check Indy to beat him to it.
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Anyone who tries to get on the bar at my watering hole:

Cobra Kai Sweep GIF by IFC
 
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#41      
the juiceman cometh
RabidDawgClassic said:
My issues are less with the honest discussions about what needs to be changed defensively — something obviously needs to be done there — and more so about the sophomoric sniping and juvenile name calling. It reeks of Biff Tannen surrounded by his group of sycophantic yes men lackeys.

I seriously doubt most people here would even know what Hamer’s role on the staff would be without one very vocal, and very influential person’s opinion of him. And I respect that person’s take. He’s connected and has a level of insight that most of us don’t. It’s the rest of you who just accept it at face value and pile on as if his thoughts are yours.

As for the leggings? Come on… that’s middle school girls level of sniping. And I suspect most if you who are piling in that ridiculous train are hardly fine fashion specimens yourself — probably wearing the same worn out hoodie for the fifth day in a row and undersized jeans exposing a massive beer gut. Reeks of jealousy, if you ask me.
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Season 4 Success GIF by The Office
 
#42      
Gbop
skyIdub said:
Ummm, I’m literally gonna be the guy standing on the bar leading the “FIRE HAMER” chant. And I’ll probably have to hockey check Indy to beat him to it.
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I’ll make the “Fire Hamer” t-shirts if anybody wants one.
 
#43      
ugottabjoshinme
Second place is 1st loser said:
I ask you this because I'm genuinely inquisitive. I actually ask this of the whole board. Did you even know who Hamer was before the insiders (one in particular) consistently went after him during the season?

I think that the vast majority of people never knew the guy existed, but because the season was a bumpy ride, he's the whipping boy. Well, Ben too, but this is about Hamer.

Did you, or anyone else that wants to answer, know this dude even existed?
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We complained about him last year too when the defense wasn't good.

Really, he was talked about even as far back when he and Tyler got the assistant jobs when 5 spots were made available. There was no reason to not bring in more REAL assistants.
 
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#45      
Se Il Illini
Second place is 1st loser said:
I ask you this because I'm genuinely inquisitive. I actually ask this of the whole board. Did you even know who Hamer was before the insiders (one in particular) consistently went after him during the season?

I think that the vast majority of people never knew the guy existed, but because the season was a bumpy ride, he's the whipping boy. Well, Ben too, but this is about Hamer.

Did you, or anyone else that wants to answer, know this dude even existed?
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Where is the head coach's responsibility in this? Does not the buck stop with him?
 
#46      
CoalCity
TheodoreRex said:
Shoot, even going iso with Domask last year was a recommendation from another coach (I think it was Jay Wright?) I just definitive recall hearing the story that another coach suggested to Underwood for us to booty ball with Domask...
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What Wright said was if you're gonna booty ball you have to commit to it, not do it just every so often. BU was already dabbling with it but needed Wright's advice before he really leaned into it
 
#47      
STL Illini
Second place is 1st loser said:
I ask you this because I'm genuinely inquisitive. I actually ask this of the whole board. Did you even know who Hamer was before the insiders (one in particular) consistently went after him during the season?

I think that the vast majority of people never knew the guy existed, but because the season was a bumpy ride, he's the whipping boy. Well, Ben too, but this is about Hamer.

Did you, or anyone else that wants to answer, know this dude even existed?
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I actually can tell you exactly when I knew about Hamer. (December 17, 2022)

1744045803143.png

Not to re-hash the days of “Brad screams too much”….
The point I will attempt to make is that in December 2022 Brad mother-f’ed Hamer in a fit of ‘frustration’ on national television. Up one side and down the other.
Not the point here…..
The point is that Brad has taken issue with Hamer’s defensive shortcomings for quite some time. This is the third full season that there have been issues, dating back to December 2022 and our defense seems to be progressively getting worse.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the fan base to be frustrated with Hamer’s performance. Our own head coach has opened that door for all to see. The analytics validate the concerns.
Your post challenges the board and or the fan base if we knew who Hamer was prior to an insider “consistently going after him this season”. That this season resulted in him (Hamer) being the whipping boy.
Simply not true…this has been brewing and getting progressively worse, not better.
So, the answer is YES, we did know prior to this season. We’ve been watching and waiting and hoping for necessary changes and improvements to be made.
 
#50      
Second place is 1st loser
Be honest when you answer this, ok?

If Hamer wasn't on staff two years ago(29 - 9, Elite 8, BTT Championship) or last year(22-13, Rd of 32).....

What's our record differential? Even, +1, +5, etc.

You can't use us having TJ or Domask as a crutch from 2023-2024, if you're not going to use the youth/Illness to to our detriment for 2024-2025.

We're just looking at him being on staff running the defense. Did he win us any games early this year? Did he lose us any games late?

If we're going to throw him SOLELY under the bus....what's his effect on both seasons on their ultimate outcomes?

I'm not advocating for keeping him or dumping him. I want your honest appraisal of his effect on the outcome of the season.

We seem to have the thought process here that players won our games and coaches lost our games....namely, Hamer.

I'm interested in your take.
 
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