Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#151      
DevILLDawg
Indy Illini Fan said:
Hamer is making like 250k … Where I come from … That ain’t cheap …

I know high school coaches who can coach circles around him and do it for a heck of a lot less than that …
Click to expand...
I can give ya some names and numbers of D3 coaches who would drop everything for half of that number and get us a better defense!!😂

If there was ever a year to bring in the best defensive X and O coach...I'm sure this won't hamper our top end potential 🤦‍♂️
 
#153      
Second place is 1st loser
Illini2010-11 said:
And how many of those have F4 aspirations? That is the only context I need.
Click to expand...
What makes you think that we should rationally have Final Four aspirations?

We have a couple of guys that 99% of the board had no clue even existed on planet earth before they committed to us, then when they did commit, two minute snippets in YouTube is our reference point.

I, personally, think that explosiveness, lateral quickness and physicality is going to be an issue with this team as a whole. Same as last year. That's going to show up on the defensive end. I'm with Werner and Piper on this. The defense is going to be a huge question mark not because of the coaching, but because of the personnel, especially on the interior, is an unknown and potentially a weakness. Our guards are going to have to be GREAT defensively to make up for a lot of question marks and outside of Boswell, who knows.

IMO.....pump the brakes on assigning this team a ceiling when in the big picture, we love some parts, we like some other parts and we haven't a clue on the remainder.

Again, JMHO.
 
#154      
Illini2010-11
Second place is 1st loser said:
What makes you think that we should rationally have Final Four aspirations?

We have a couple of guys that 99% of the board had no clue even existed on planet earth before they committed to us, then when they did commit, two minute snippets in YouTube is our reference point.

I, personally, think that explosiveness, lateral quickness and physicality is going to be an issue with this team as a whole. Same as last year. That's going to show up on the defensive end. I'm with Werner and Piper on this. The defense is going to be a huge question mark not because of the coaching, but because of the personnel, especially on the interior, is an unknown and potentially a weakness. Our guards are going to have to be GREAT defensively to make up for a lot of question marks and outside of Boswell, who knows.

IMO.....pump the brakes on assigning this team a ceiling when in the big picture, we love some parts, we like some other parts and we haven't a clue on the remainder.

Again, JMHO.
Click to expand...
Excuse Me What GIF by Bounce

Nowhere am I talking about the team for next year and the floor or ceiling. I am looking directly at the coaching staff with Hamer. No program aspiring to make the F4 would have him in his current role. We are limiting ourselves with our coaching staff, IMO. That is my argument, not that the team next year can make the final 4. I would have major issues with the staff if they are content and happy simply making the second weekend.
 
#155      
ptgrd23
Brad has recruited for offense. That is why Chester, Amani and Sencire left. My concern is once you reach NCAAs teams can score and play defense. KY forced 14 turnovers vs Illini. We forced 3. For us to become sweet 16 the defense will have to improve.

Honestly KJ, Will, and Ben were weak defenders. Tre was average. Tomas lacked strength.

Next year: I am intrigued about playing fletched twin towers for better shot blocking and rebounding. Andrej is TBD defender but Ty, Mirkovic, and Petrovic should be improvements. We will miss Morez.
 
#156      
MDchicago
Illini2010-11 said:
Excuse Me What GIF by Bounce

Nowhere am I talking about the team for next year and the floor or ceiling. I am looking directly at the coaching staff with Hamer. No program aspiring to make the F4 would have him in his current role. We are limiting ourselves with our coaching staff, IMO. That is my argument, not that the team next year can make the final 4. I would have major issues with the staff if they are content and happy simply making the second weekend.
Click to expand...
Ttrpg Accept GIF by zoefannet
 
#157      
mhuml32
Illini2010-11 said:
Nowhere am I talking about the team for next year and the floor or ceiling. I am looking directly at the coaching staff with Hamer. No program aspiring to make the F4 would have him in his current role. We are limiting ourselves with our coaching staff, IMO. That is my argument, not that the team next year can make the final 4. I would have major issues with the staff if they are content and happy simply making the second weekend.
Click to expand...


I would argue that people are:

(a) Overestimating their knowledge of what Hamer does for this staff, his value to Underwood, his impact to the Illinois defense, etc.

(b) The circle of bona fide assistant coaches is much smaller than people realize. Which also means there are a lot of staff members that either haven't proven themselves, are viewed as a byproduct of their head coach, are blood-related, or are just filling a spot until the next offseason. There are plenty of staffs that either did really well with an assistant coach or two that are not very highly thought of on the open market ('24 UNC, late Coach K Duke teams, Jay Wright Nova teams, system programs like Purdue and Wisconsin, and a bunch of coaches who have their kid on staff). Even a guy like Kelvin's son, Kellen Sampson, who did poorly away from his dad in their one stint apart, is viewed by some as a really good coach yet his name is rarely, if ever, brought up for head jobs.

I'm much more concerned about Kwa going back to his original position and a new assistant added than what happens with Hamer.
 
#158      
Second place is 1st loser
Illini2010-11 said:
Excuse Me What GIF by Bounce

Nowhere am I talking about the team for next year and the floor or ceiling. I am looking directly at the coaching staff with Hamer. No program aspiring to make the F4 would have him in his current role. We are limiting ourselves with our coaching staff, IMO. That is my argument, not that the team next year can make the final 4. I would have major issues with the staff if they are content and happy simply making the second weekend.
Click to expand...
Ok, I took your post as saying we needed to dump an assistant because this year's upcoming team had a Final Four ceiling and it was being capped by said assistant.

Last year, the makeup of the roster was just not going to allow for a stout defensive team. It was an extremely gifted and skilled team offensively, but it lacked a lot of physical and explosive pieces defensively.

I think that we're going to have similar issues this year, but maybe not? This is the second year that we're going with more of a finesse roster. I have no clue how that translates defensively when playing a completely different game than they do overseas. Could another coach have gotten more out of last year's group and set this year's group for more success? Again, we don't have a clue.

Really athletic and physical teams gave us problems last year. That was a personnel issue IMO. Not sure how this year plays out, but I do see good possibility for similar issues.
 
#160      
ptgrd23
Second place is 1st loser said:
Really athletic and physical teams gave us problems last year. That was a personnel issue IMO. Not sure how this year plays out, but I do see good possibility for similar issues.
Click to expand...
this is why Brad pursued Sarr and Sellers. Unfortunately Sarr grew very expensive and did not want to decide till end of May, Sellers chose Providence when Brad would not guarantee starting.

Our new recruits are older - Andrej JR will be 21, big Z JR 21, Mircovic 19 years old, Petrovic 22 -- average age 21

last year our recruits were younger - Will Riley was 18, Kasper was 18, Tomas was 20, Kylan was 19 Morez was 18, Jake 20 - average age was 19

Plus our returnees will be a year older - Kylan 20, Tomas 21, Ty 22, Ben 23, Jake 21

We should be stronger and more mature
 
#161      
splitter
I'd prefer to see Pru's neighbor ladies instead of Hamer. We have seen what his neighborhood is like.
 
#162      
CHI 1086
I get the discourse on Hamer, don't we have a football coach that acted similarly a few years ago? I'm not saying the results will be the same, but don't coaches mature like players?

I LOVE a great defensive team, but the game is evolving. Let's see how this plays out.
 
#163      
IllinoisssssssVarsity
Indy Illini Fan said:
Hamer is making like 250k … Where I come from … That ain’t cheap …

I know high school coaches who can coach circles around him and do it for a heck of a lot less than that …
Click to expand...
I’ll do it for a 1/3

We’ll play man
Mix in 5 different zone options when needed
Mix in 5 different screen coverages
And throw the occasional press out there

As a bonus, I’ll even offer up inbounds plays
 
#164      
IlliniFan42
OrangeKrush1981 said:
This staff messed up in the portal last year. Maybe more assistants isn't the solution. But you have to wonder what happened with the eval on, for example, Carey Booth. And Tre White didn't help much either, compared to what Ty Rogers would have brought to the court. Ben was not what the staff expected, though he did more to help the team than he sometimes gets credit for. (And yes: the summer Euro/Canada recruiting saved us. Which this staff accomplished, obviously.)

I share your views on assistant specialization, though: offensive and defensive coordinator, and ideally a serious individual skills development guy to complement Fletch's physical-development focus.
Click to expand...
I'm just throwing this out there- but Carey Booth's ratings still have not fallen much. On3 gives him a 90 (4-star!) and 247 gives him an 89 (3-star), so it's not like we were seeing what others weren't, there's still a good amount of belief out there that he has potential.
 
#166      
ptgrd23
IlliniFan42 said:
I'm just throwing this out there- but Carey Booth's ratings still have not fallen much. On3 gives him a 90 (4-star!) and 247 gives him an 89 (3-star), so it's not like we were seeing what others weren't, there's still a good amount of belief out there that he has potential.
Click to expand...
Carey played no defense, did not rebound despite being 6'10" and had no offensive moves. In the old days he would have been called an "airport" basketball player. Somebody who appeared to be a basketball player when walking thru airport but was of no value on court.

Glad we cut him loose after 1 wasted season. I would have preferred keeping Amani. Equally good shooter but played defense and rebounded. Somebody really screwed up in offering Carey. Made Ben H look like Luca Doncic.
 
#167      
RabidDawgClassic
#173      
PepeSilvia
In that case I'm going to need Brad round up some donors and go buy Jamir Watkins.

Just be so much more talented than everyone that it doesn't matter.
 
#175      
OrangeBlue98
Indy Illini Fan said:
Who on UCLA staff is being compared to Hamer ?

Nate ? He’s Mick’s guy … It’s no different than what we have with Tyler which we’ve all come to not always like but accept …

So you’re comparing Hamer to Brendyn I assume ? The guy got them Donovan Dent and has them as the leader for two top 10 players in the country for 2026 …

Hamer brings less than ZERO to the recruiting game … He’s a negative … I’ve had recruits tell me they thought he was a weird guy … And as far as coaching … I don’t need to go over that … We’ve seen that for 2+ years …

So what exactly does Hamer bring to the table for $250,000 per year ?

It’s Brad’s staff … And if he wants to roll with Hamer … It’s the wrong decision … And it better f’ing work …
Click to expand...
Which once again makes me wonder exactly what Josh Whitman is doing here. There's supporting your key employees, and then there is turning a blind eye to a clear negative and hoping against hope the situation works itself out.

I'll ask the question again - if this were the corporate world, would CEO Josh Whitman allow Senior VP Brad Underwood to keep Sales VP Zach Hamer if Hamer's results were similar to what they have been as the defensive coordinator? And at what point would the board of directors (i.e. the donors) start asking serious questions of CEO Whitman if this situation progressed?

Honestly, if (at the least) Hamer is not demoted, I seriously question whether Josh Whitman can effectively manage Brad Underwood.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back