ISU was top 10 all year and fell into the teens in March. Top 10 wins are very important. Those are the games that put you over the top when it comes to seeding and getting you into the tourney and those are the teams you see in the tourney if you wanna make a run. The whole point was responding to a previous poster who said he isn't a good coach. You dont have that level of success against elite teams unless youre decent at what you do. Consistency seems to be his issue which would point to a culture problem. If he couldn't hold his locker room together, he had to go. Its too important in this day in age with players transferring all over every year. You need a coach to establish culture, Brad's best attribute.
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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I really could not disagree more that a losing conference record is a good coaching job
Anyway, you're now making this discussion way more about Brad than you are about Tang, which may have been your original M.O. to begin with, so lets revisit your original point:
Tang has more wins vs ranked opponents than Underwood in the last 4 years, which is relevant because????
Bottom line here is that Tang is an absolute dumpster fire while Brad is one of the best coaches in the nation, so nobody is going to care about Tang's top 10 wins when he can't even make the NIT
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You're making my point. This is an ILLINI board so of course when we compare coaches they're gonna be compared with Brad who we all, yourself just did it, admit he is one of the best coaches in the nation. So if we are gonna evaluate Tang, let's not just look at one terrible conference season. Look at his whole body of work. If Brad is a top 10 coach and Tang has certain accomplishments that meet or exceed what Brad has done, thats very relevant when deciding whether he can coach or not.
I think you're overhyping the Big 12 a bit.
In his 10 seasons at K-State, Weber had 4 seasons with a winning conference record - so 40% of the time, compared to Tang's 1/4 (25%). He also had a better overall Big-12 record than Tang.
Yes, the Big 12 includes tough opponents like Houston, Iowa St., Arizona, Kansas. It also includes opponents like UCF, Colorado, Oklahoma St., Utah.
Here is K-State's 9-11 Big-12 schedule last season, with KP rank in bold, wins in Green, losses in Red:
Overall - 9-11
1. Cincinnati (70-67) #55
2. @TCU (62-63) #86
3. @OK St. (66-79) #97
4. Houston (57-87) #2
5. Texas Tech (57-61) #9
6. @Kansas (74-84) #24
7. @Baylor (62-70) #30
8. West Virginia (73-60) #53
9. OK St. (85-57) #97
10. @Iowa St. (80-61) #11
11. @ASU (71-70) #73
12. Kansas (81-73) #24
13. Arizona (73-70) #13
14. @BYU (65-80) #26
15. @Utah (69-74) #76
16. ASU (54-66) #73
17. @UCF (76-80) #67
18. Colorado (65-56) #87
19. @Cincinnati (54-49) #55
20. Iowa St. (57-73) #11
Conf. Rec. vs. KP 1-10: 0-2
Conf. Rec. v. KP 11-25: 3-2
Conf. Rec. v. KP 26-50: 0-2
Conf. Rec. v. KP 51-100: 6-6
So here's the thing, Tang didn't even have a winning record vs. Big 12 teams outside the top 50. He lost six games to that group, including losses to Big 12 teams ranked #73, #76, and #97 in KP. If he had won every game vs. teams outside the top 50, and lost every other game, he'd have gone 12-8. That's not a meat grinder. That's a schedule that has some really tough games, but also a lot of games a good coach would win.
As a comparison, here is the same chart with BU's worst season during Tang's tenure, 2022-23:
Overall - 11-9
1. @Maryland (61-70) #10
2. Penn St. (59-74) #58
3. @NW (60-73) #44
4. Wisconsin (79-69) #13
5. @Nebraska (76-50) #46
6. MSU (75-66) #7
7. @Minn (78-60) #83
8. Indiana (65-80) #45
9. OSU (69-60) #37
10. @Wisconsin (61-51) #13
11. Nebraska (72-56) #46
12. @Iowa (79-81) #62
13. Rutgers (69-60) #70
14. @PSU (81-93) #58
15. @Indiana (68-71) #45
16. Minn (78-69) #83
17. NW (66-62) #44
18. @OSU (60-72) #37
19. Michigan (91-87) #21
20. @Purdue (71-76) #15
Conf. Rec. vs. KP 1-10: 1-1
Conf. Rec. v. KP 11-25: 3-1
Conf. Rec. v. KP 26-50: 4-4
Conf. Rec. v. KP 51-100: 3-3
Overall, that's a tougher schedule. Half the number of games against teams outside the top-50 compared to KSU in Tang's second best conference record. Worst team in B1G in that '23 season was #83, while Big 12 in '25 had two teams worse than that. Better record vs. top 10, top 25 and top 50 teams. '23 BU's worst loss was to #62 - '25 KSU had 5 losses to teams ranked lower than that. And this is a season that is generally seen on this board as BU's biggest failure. What's it say that BU's biggest failure is better than a season that is "not a bad coaching job" for Tang?
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Bigtex
- DFW
might compare to Orlando. Head coach didn't work for Orlando but seems to working well as a good/great assistant
... and his brother's NIL bag toting wife.
I know that you won't care about my final take here(I wouldn't either). I call balls and strikes with our program, nothing off this plate is a strike and nothing on the black is a ball. I do concede that some(not many) of our fans will fight if there is even the least bit of criticism of any coaches or players. If we're losing, it's always in the referees. So, I do agree with very few being unreasonably defensive.
However, to even put Tang in the same sentence as Underwood is flat out crazy. We have been a picture of consistency since he's been here and we've have had the most conference wins over a span of a half decade? KSU has missed three consecutive tournaments in just awful fashion. Look at the recruiting alone. Are you saying that's even remotely close? Are you saying that the development of players is even close?
While I do agree with the first part regarding homerism amongst a very few is real. The rest is complete and total ridiculousness and there's an agenda.
Here's the part you won't care about. If one more completely irrational comment from you gets posted, I'm writing you off as a troll and I'll block the messages. It's ok to put rationale disagreements together (it's why the board exists), but good grief. Using conference strength as defense.....just bad.
And yes, Brad's baseline is a Natty, which means that he's set ANYTHING less than that is a failure. Sit back and think about that. If we're not in the top 10, it's now a disappointment amongst our fandom. If we don't have a top 4 seed, it's been a bad year. C'mon now.....just think things through. That's all I ask.
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ptgrd23
- orange county CA
Tang this will be 3rd year in row KSU has missed NCAA. they are 1-11 in conference this year.
He took zero responsibility - threw his team under bus and said they would not be back next year.
Some people pressure makes diamonds. Others it just makes coal dust.
really? lol
Wow, if it wasn't for the "Groce was actually a better coach than BU" take from late last season, I think this would probably be in the running for the worst take I'd seen on this website.
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Why does Underwood need to be defended?
There's nothing irrational about laying out the whole picture with Tang. He was an associate head coach for a national champion and won BIG 12 coach of the year and got his team to the elite 8. This year was a disaster for him, but id say its more rational than not to push back on the people insinuating he isn't a good coach.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
Do you think a coach with an overall losing record (ie, he is in the bottom 50 percentile of coaches) is a good coach or a bad coach? Yes or no
I will reclaim my time as needed lol
The point i made was in response to someone insinuating he cant coach. Brad Underwood is the easiest to compare him to because he is who we are most familiar with. So to me, if we can acknowledge Brad is one of the better program builders in the country, I think looking at the numbers a little deeper shows that Tang can coach with the best of them as hes beaten elite teams every year. Now, BUILDING and MAINTAINING a program is what hes failed to do. Thats the huge separator between him and the elite coaches. Brad has built a culture here and youre either in or youre out. This being Tang's first job, I hope he gets a second chance and fixes his mistake there. Or maybe he just doesnt have it. He seems like a good man.
LMAO I wasn't trying to knock Underwood, they just get riled up quickly. I was just simply showing(in response to somebody saying he cant coach) that Tang has had a similar amount of ranked wins, gotten to the elite 8, and won a coach of the year. I think we can all agree that the writing was on the wall there. But let's not completely dog the guy. But of course, people want to take it personally.
I
Well for one, hes 71-57. So that stat is incorrect. 2. How many of those coaches have won Naismith Coach of the Year and have a natty as an associate head coach? I don't have a problem with him being fired, its just asinine to me to claim he can't coach. Not you, but other people.
For one, what defines elite?
But second, that's not what being a good coach is. A volatile and inconsistent team occasionally will beat elite teams, and then lose to really bad teams. Is that what any program wants out of their coach? A good coach is consistent, and a good team wins the lion's share of the games it should win. Would we be happy with Bielema if our football team had beaten Indiana and OSU, then lost every single other game and gone 2-10?
What you're describing as a deep dive into the numbers is actually the opposite. You're taking the highs of his tenure, and ignoring the lows (which are often only separated by a week or two).
News Flash. That's his job.
What has Underwood done to show he is going to lead us to the national title let alone the final 4. All I see is regular season success and then a whole lot disappointment come tourney time.
Getting absolutely outcoached by Porter Moser where we never lead as a #1 seed in 2nd rd
Being a missed block away from losing to Chattanooga , then getting handled by Houston
Not showing up vs Arkansas
Finally getting to the elite 8 then giving up a 30-0 run
Losing to Kentucky where we led for 26 seconds?
Getting absolutely outcoached by Porter Moser where we never lead as a #1 seed in 2nd rd
Being a missed block away from losing to Chattanooga , then getting handled by Houston
Not showing up vs Arkansas
Finally getting to the elite 8 then giving up a 30-0 run
Losing to Kentucky where we led for 26 seconds?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
People saying stuff like this when we are in the TOP DANG TEN just boggles my mind. I am boggled.
That is his record the last 3 years: 45-47
How long will you continue to give him credit for the season where he had the benefit of his predecessor's players? Much longer than their AD, I suppose, and this is the "Bruce Weber defense" that another person mentioned.
If you don't have a problem with him being fired then you're agreeing his performance was poor.
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