Coaching Carousel (Football)
Nothing like smell of fresh coaching carousel thread in the morning....
the national
- the Front Range
That’s a bummer. Expected but a bummer.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Emerson: Did college sports just reach an inflection point?
There’s an understanding that the old system isn’t coming back. There’s a desire for a new system that works.
theathletic.com
But the same characters will violate the NCAA salary cap just like they paid players when it was illegal.
Ohio State AD Gene Smith claims recruits are asking for $5K to visit campuses in NIL era
In a congressional hearing on Wednesday, Ohio State AD Gene Smith said the practice of recruits asking for $5,000 to visit campus has "become common."
www.dispatch.com
the national
- the Front Range
Wisconsin hires former USC defensive coordinator Alex Grinch as safeties coach | FOX Sports
Former Southern California defensive coordinator Alex Grinch has resurfaced at Wisconsin as the Badgers’ new safeties coach
www.foxsports.com
Ryllini
- Lombard
It’s wild. There has to be a new governing body that will set clear boundaries and have a set when it comes penalization.But the same characters will violate the NCAA salary cap just like they paid players when it was illegal.
Ohio State AD Gene Smith claims recruits are asking for $5K to visit campuses in NIL era
In a congressional hearing on Wednesday, Ohio State AD Gene Smith said the practice of recruits asking for $5,000 to visit campus has "become common."www.dispatch.com
Any chance we can label these coaching threads Football & Basketball?
As @ChiefGritty confidently predicted, the end of college athletics as we know it is nearer than most people want to admit. The coaches realize it and they are positioning themselves where there is stability and a system in place. Money talks, but stability and known job expectations will win out over money for for some coaches. The known entity of the NFL is definitely more reassuring to some.
It's tagged at the top, but it could be a little more clear since you don't know which thread you're clicking when opening them via the latest posts tab.
Wouldn't hate an above board salary cap and relegation/promotion style CFB. Make a mega conference with the most money with 32 teams. Divide them into 4 regional Divisions of 8. Play your 8 team division with 4 home and 4 away randomly assigned, 1 team each from the other 3 paired (after the first year) by place in division. Then 1 lower Tier early season game where the upper tear gives a standard payout.
Playoffs are 16 team playoff top 4 from each 8 team division. 1 v 4, 2 v3 from the division play each other then winners of those games to keep regional rivalry and heated early seeds. Then a re-seed for regional divisions to face each other down to the national championship.
Bottom 2 teams in each region get relegated Top 8 from tier 2 get promoted and regions get re-sorted to minimize travel.
Revenue sharing within your tier so promoted teams get a boost to help update facilities and such as well as pay for better athletes.
All athletes get one free transfer if their team gets relegated otherwise you're locked in. If you transferred to a team that then gets relegated you have to stay with your second team. Coaches can't revoke scholarships and if you accept a transfer and you got relegated subsequently you have to make sure you pay what you promised.
Just keep having descending tiers until you're out of college teams.
Playoffs are 16 team playoff top 4 from each 8 team division. 1 v 4, 2 v3 from the division play each other then winners of those games to keep regional rivalry and heated early seeds. Then a re-seed for regional divisions to face each other down to the national championship.
Bottom 2 teams in each region get relegated Top 8 from tier 2 get promoted and regions get re-sorted to minimize travel.
Revenue sharing within your tier so promoted teams get a boost to help update facilities and such as well as pay for better athletes.
All athletes get one free transfer if their team gets relegated otherwise you're locked in. If you transferred to a team that then gets relegated you have to stay with your second team. Coaches can't revoke scholarships and if you accept a transfer and you got relegated subsequently you have to make sure you pay what you promised.
Just keep having descending tiers until you're out of college teams.
That eliminates what differentiates college football from the nfl, albeit in a soccer format with relegation….. which I think is stupid. The excitement of teams loaded with 5th year guys having one special season is just one example of many that’ll go away. it’ll just be a minor professional league that has worse players with some ‘prospects’ that show promise. Why even watch? It affects coaches too. Who would want to be a long tenured college coach? Will that even be a possibility or will that become even more like the nfl than it is now? 2 years to get things going then fired instead of the typical 3-4 or more currently.
Then, in far far away times, money will dry up as that reality sets in from a gradual degradation of interest. Possibly resulting in a scenario where things go back to or similar to how they were at the beginning, starting a new 100+ year cycle like the ancient Mayans predicted in their lesser known Long Count College Football Economics and Interest Calendar…
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I respect your opinion, but I disagree because your arguments against are things that CFB already is.
A minor league that only has a few prospects that make it to the next level.
What coaches besides the very top guys who have already had a shot at the NFL actually stay around at one place for more than 5-6 years? Dabo? Smart? Everyone else is either looking to jump to a P2 Blue Blood or the NFL already. Coaches will likely get the same amount of time they are getting now with current NIL to make an impression 3-5 years. If you're not close to the level you're striving for by then alumni and admins will get frustrated (unless they don't really care) and move on to the guy who can take them to the promised land.
The tiers with relegation at least put schools on the same money threshold and rewards teams for doing well. You're telling me we wouldn't be going absolutely bonkers going 10-2 in Tier 2 and having a chance to move to tier 1 and have more money to offer players. It condenses the playing field and makes things at least more exciting than praying we can limp along in the new B1G and go 6-6. As for the magic 5th year laden season that gets a team promoted that's amazing and a great story.
The cats out of the bag, money is flowing, and CFB has always been a minor professional league this just tries to level the playing field and concentrate talent so we see the best product. People clamor for the amateurism of the NCAA, but it never existed it was just professional athletes getting trained in a secondary skill for free.
There will be a point where somebody decides to stop playing the game. NIL is not equal, attempts to regulate it may have some moderating effect but as we all know there will always be people and programs that will operate under the table. Programs that fall behind on the willingness to commit stupid money to fund a lost cause will get off the carousel and de-emphasize their sports programs. That's where the actual relegation will occur.
Reading this, can’t help but be reminded of one of my favorite scenes from Monty Python and the Holy Grail
. Always makes me chuckle heartily. Especially if one’s ever worked with or had other firsthand experience with bureaucracy, especially of the local government variety
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
Emerson: Did college sports just reach an inflection point?
There’s an understanding that the old system isn’t coming back. There’s a desire for a new system that works.
(1) The doom-and-gloom from certain CFB talking heads about this changing dynamic is so odd to me. We went almost 20 years where college football head coaches, working at "non-profits" were being paid more, sometimes many magnitudes more, than head coaches in the most lucrative, for-profit sport enterprise on the planet. Almost no CFB or NFL writer was complaining about that distortion of economics.
(2) As of today, we've had a total of three college coaches jump to the NFL, with one other publicly leaked as interviewing for coordinator positions. One has been heavily rumored to the NFL for many years (Harbaugh), to the point where he was actively manipulating his contract to allow for a quick transition to the NFL. He said at his press conference that his plan was to return Michigan to the national stage and then go back to try to win a Super Bowl. Two others were/are on serious hot seats and were very likely to be fired after this coming season (Hafley and Kelly). Hafley spent the great majority of the past 12 years in the NFL, got a massive raise to become Ohio State's DC, got another massive raise to become BC's head coach, and now is going to back to the NFL after he saw the writing on the wall. Chip Kelly has been vocal about his distaste for the changes in college football and it's an open secret he doesn't like recruiting. That's what motivated him to jump to the Eagles from Oregon. He flamed out in the NFL, so he went back to college because that's where he was garnering interest. He's still trying to get back to the NFL as an OC, which seems like a great fit for him. Yesterday we saw Liam Coen go from UK OC to Bucs OC. He's another guy with recent and strong experience in the NFL. There are articles out there that he went to UK because McVay wasn't sure if he was going to retire and he told his coaching staff to seek out other employment as a means self-preservation. So Coen leaves for a year, and now goes back to the NFL.
If we start seeing college football coaches with zero or limited NFL experience jumping to the pros, then some of these articles can have merit. That said, even if we do, why does that matter? The arguments about the changes in college athletics is fait accompli, no one is arguing otherwise. But that people are pointing to the current CFB coaching market to sound the alarm just shows how far out of economic position we have become for realistically viewing the college football enterprise.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
Sport that needs "increased regulation" is now paying every P4 assistant coach over $1 million/year.
It is not an even playing field in college sports anymore. There was always inequity due to reputation, facilities, ability to get away with cheating, but ultimately everyone had the same opportunity, especially when you look from a coaching perspective. If you were a great coach, you could succeed at any school and put yourself in position to move onward and upward.Emerson: Did college sports just reach an inflection point?
There’s an understanding that the old system isn’t coming back. There’s a desire for a new system that works.
Now with some schools having far more money than others, and the ability to freely transfer, certain schools are not able to compete. Any time they have a great year, they'll just lose their players to bigger richer schools. Kids won't stay to develop, they just leave for more PT or more money right now. Unless you're at the top of the pyramid, college coaching is probably extremely frustrating.
A salary cap would fundamentally change the way college sports has always worked and the blue bloods would fight it tooth and nail.
Blue Bloods get the name because they have been good forever. They're always good because they always get the best recruits. If the salary cap made that impossible to have vastly more talent than your opponents because you can't afford it, then it comes down to talent identification and coaching. Which would be great for the game, but takes away those inherent advantages schools with better reputations and facilities have.
Where my mind has always gone is certain teams won't be able to compete and they'll just slowly fade away. All of this conversation about a mega Big 10 and mega SEC with an expanded Big 12 being the 3rd conference backs up this thought. These are the schools that can stick around everyone else becomes an afterthought, and how long before the finances just don't work for those afterthought schools?
Then even within those mega conferences, I don't like our chances in the expanded Big 10, if we add schools like Notre Dame, Florida State, etc that won't get any easier. At what point does constantly being 16th or lower out of 24 in your conference just sap fan support to the point where you start asking what are we doing here?
It won't happen over night, but that is where my concern is with the direction of college sports.
I see your idea on relegation, and if it were to work out that way yeah I’d find that exciting. But would the more casual fan? Would there be enough interest left over if a team was in a lesser tier for an extended period?
Another poster basically said they think relegation will effectively happen, but because the schools will get tired of sinking $ into what they perceive as a lost cause. Unfortunately I think that is more likely. Then I can’t resist thinking further down the road on how that will likely mean less $ for college football as a whole because of a general decline in interest. Many things to consider as far as what that would imply if that’s what ends up happening, including in regards to coaches.
I, for one, think the SuperLeague/Relegation model *could* work.
Think of the B1G, SEC and ACC as the English Premier League, German Bundesliga and Spanish La Liga, with the CFB SuperLeague being akin to the Champions League. That model works. The difference here would be that the (let's assume 20) teams promoted to the SuperLeague mainly play other SuperLeague teams. Say those teams are broken into 2 divisions -- they'd play a nine game round-robin with the winners of each division (and maybe two wild cards) going to the playoff. The teams could have a "pre-season" playing teams in their legacy conferences.
Even assuming that the top 6-7 teams in each legacy conference are gone to the SuperLeague for most of the season, the teams "left behind" would still have a lot of traditional rivalries and decent games. Envision a Big Ten with: Illinois, Iowa, MSU, Minny, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, UCLA, Northwestern, Nebraska and Wisky all playing for the year-end goal of being promoted to the "elite," to replace a relegated team like Michigan, tOSU, Penn State, USC, Oregon or Washington. I think that would still preserve a lot of traditional rivalry and excitement.
Now, will the "Big Boys" agree to a system where they could be relegated? I highly doubt it.
Nah just give me the old Big Ten back. Send the Pac12, Rutgers, and Maryland packing. Nebraska can stay because they've been doing their best to keep us out of the B1G West basement and Penn State can do whatever