They have 2 - 80 yard sized fields as well. Doesn't strike me as a huge problem.
Coaching Carousel (Football)
Are you using Tim Beckman as an example for how the "only criteria in hiring a coach should be their perceived ability to win games and advance the program?"
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
All I really have to say about any of this anymore is just relief and gratitude that under Josh Whitman's leadership, the DIA is no longer an excuses-based organization.
Yes. Key word perceived. But again that is not the point here. Beckman was an awful hire in hindsight, and a mediocre hire at best in foresight. But several other would-be candidates preemptively declined the job and he was the best we could get. Same thing with Cubit, it was an absolute dumpster fire around the program then.
If a BOT member had voted no and said they thought he was not a good hire due to his football background, I'd have zero issue with it.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
overall , we are in a much better position with admin , since JW came aboard , than we were from 1967-2017 , save for the 1980’s when Ikenberry was Prez & Stoner was AD .
Otherwise , we were either in purgatory or hell for 40 of those 50 years , and much can be blamed on the people in charge.
it simply wasn’t all just bad luck on who we were or weren’t hiring every 5-7 years
Otherwise , we were either in purgatory or hell for 40 of those 50 years , and much can be blamed on the people in charge.
it simply wasn’t all just bad luck on who we were or weren’t hiring every 5-7 years
That was certainly the case in the 60's and 70's. Going into the 90's our sports programs were in great shape. 4 things killed us in the ensuing decades....
1. We made Mackovic AD in addition to football coach, so when he left we had an unnecessarily large gaping hole
2. Morton Weir promoted Tepper into the HC position when we were in position to land a Mackovic or White or better caliber coach.
3. RG let Self walk without a fight, then hired a lesser replacement in Weber
4. We hired Mike Thomas as RG's replacement. I can pretty much guarantee that neither Neal Stoner nor Josh Whitman would have hired John Groce or Tim Beckman
Other things certainly didn't help - Zook and Lovie were clowns, etc, but these were hiccups - the 4 things mentioned above, compounded over time, put us where we are today.
BZuppke
- Plainfield
All the key points succinctly stated.
I firmly believe #1, and by default, #2, are the key moments that began the modern downfall of Illinois football. If we would’ve had a presumably competent AD at the helm who was not also the football coach when Mackovic left for Texas, we could’ve continued the upward growth started by Mike White. Instead, promoting an assistant coach before naming a new AD jump started the downward spiral.
Illini92and96
- Austin, TX
Well, don't blame their QBs if they can't complete a pass longer than 80 yards. How are they supposed to practice that given space limitations???
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
it’s the lack of practice for 75 yard field goals I am concerned about
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
It all started in 1967 with the slush fund . It haunted us for 25-30 years or more really . The BoT was hyper worried things as “bad” as that would occur again . Never mind it was happening EVERYWHERE.
Any news on potential bullen replacements?
#1 should read “Mort Weir made Mackovic AD”
(archived articles are out there; with quotes from Mort saying that after a nation search, and preparation of a first list and a second list, he realized that there was a person already on campus with the qualities desired. Mackovic quoted as saying that it was Mort who approached Mac with the idea. Mac hadn’t been pursuing additional role)
Btw, it was Stoner that picked Mac as HC choice.
2/4/88 Mac hired. Stoner resigned 7/13/88. Mac adds the AD job 12/23/88.
I’ve said it before, Mort chose poorly.
It was a Mort double whammy!
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The break point in the history of Illinois football is not 1967, nor is it 1991. It's 1995, when Ron Guenther made the choice to retain Tepper despite the bonfire of his credibility in the Greg Landry/Chris Redman mess and results on the field and on the recruiting trail that were self-evidently deteriorating rapidly.
Guenther repeated the same mistake with Turner and Zook. All of a piece with his bone-deep ideology about what a college sports program was and was for that was totally out of step with the college sports business that was then emerging and relied on endless lies and propaganda about the Slush Fund, etc, etc (as you all know I could go on about this for hours).
THE POINT IS, from the beginning of the football program to 1995, Illinois only intermittently competed seriously with Ohio State and Michigan, but was consistently better than the remainder of the original Big Ten (minus Michigan State who only joined in the 50's). And there is NO DIFFERENCE between the results in the 28 years after the slush fund to '95 and the 28 years before.
Illinois had the upper hand against Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Purdue and Indiana for a century until Guenther began his campaign of ideological refusal to compete in modern college football. Only Indiana hasn't gotten the better of us since.
Guentherism is an avalanche of lies from tip to tail. So many of the claims it rested on have been proven false in the years since he's been gone. Friends don't let friends keep peddling this nonsense.
On this I agree completely. Not sure any coach ever did less with more. Rice, Hardy, Howard, Holocek. The offense wasn't nearly as good (Redman we hardly knew ya) but that defense should have been enough to carry the team to a decent bowl. Didn't even go to one in 1995 (Hardy & Rice's final year, drafted 2nd & 3rd overall in the 1996 draft).
I don’t disagree, however Guenther should’ve never been in that position because either
The break point in the history of Illinois football is not 1967, nor is it 1991. It's 1995, when Ron Guenther made the choice to retain Tepper despite the bonfire of his credibility in the Greg Landry/Chris Redman mess and results on the field and on the recruiting trail that were self-evidently deteriorating rapidly.
Guenther repeated the same mistake with Turner and Zook. All of a piece with his bone-deep ideology about what a college sports program was and was for that was totally out of step with the college sports business that was then emerging and relied on endless lies and propaganda about the Slush Fund, etc, etc (as you all know I could go on about this for hours).
THE POINT IS, from the beginning of the football program to 1995, Illinois only intermittently competed seriously with Ohio State and Michigan, but was consistently better than the remainder of the original Big Ten (minus Michigan State who only joined in the 50's). And there is NO DIFFERENCE between the results in the 28 years after the slush fund to '95 and the 28 years before.
Illinois had the upper hand against Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Purdue and Indiana for a century until Guenther began his campaign of ideological refusal to compete in modern college football. Only Indiana hasn't gotten the better of us since.
Guentherism is an avalanche of lies from tip to tail. So many of the claims it rested on have been proven false in the years since he's been gone. Friends don't let friends keep peddling this nonsense.
A) He would never have been named AD because one would’ve presumably been firmly in place since 1990, or…
B) Had Guenther been the one hired in 1990, he likely wouldn’t have promoted Tepper in 1991.
The beginning of the end started when Mackovic was named AD/Head Coach and subsequently bolted.
Don't disagree with any of this. My only two clarifications are:
The break point in the history of Illinois football is not 1967, nor is it 1991. It's 1995, when Ron Guenther made the choice to retain Tepper despite the bonfire of his credibility in the Greg Landry/Chris Redman mess and results on the field and on the recruiting trail that were self-evidently deteriorating rapidly.
Guenther repeated the same mistake with Turner and Zook. All of a piece with his bone-deep ideology about what a college sports program was and was for that was totally out of step with the college sports business that was then emerging and relied on endless lies and propaganda about the Slush Fund, etc, etc (as you all know I could go on about this for hours).
THE POINT IS, from the beginning of the football program to 1995, Illinois only intermittently competed seriously with Ohio State and Michigan, but was consistently better than the remainder of the original Big Ten (minus Michigan State who only joined in the 50's). And there is NO DIFFERENCE between the results in the 28 years after the slush fund to '95 and the 28 years before.
Illinois had the upper hand against Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Purdue and Indiana for a century until Guenther began his campaign of ideological refusal to compete in modern college football. Only Indiana hasn't gotten the better of us since.
Guentherism is an avalanche of lies from tip to tail. So many of the claims it rested on have been proven false in the years since he's been gone. Friends don't let friends keep peddling this nonsense.
1. If we have a real AD in 1991 we don't hire Lou Tepper, we hire some hotshot offensive coordinator or an established mid-major or better HC. Either of these would have had us in contention for Big 10 titles in the first half of the 90's
2. We were pretty competitive with the little 8 by the early 70's, so the Slush Fund didn't kill us in that respect. What it did is make it impossible for us to compete with OSU and Michigan. It may not have happened anyway, but when you look at the competitive landscape of the Big 10 10 in the mid-60's it was wide open - even IU won a Big 10 title in 1967. We were in as good a position as anyone to step up - shoot, we beat both UM and OSU in '66, had a popular coach and strong state-wide support that we have never regained.
The slush fund that was documented and we got busted for was chump change.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
Harbaugh has done more than a few things worse and they gave him a parade and the NFL gave him a 15 million dollar annual contract .
The B1G and NCAA loves to make things hard for us , every chance they get . It continues to this day
Luke Ford has to sit out a year
Justin Fields can play right away
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The ace DC retaining continuity with a then very successful program would have been a very strong candidate under any leadership. Lou Tepper was a better hire than Sherrone Moore, put it that way.
Tepper proved to be ill-suited to a Big Ten head coaching role, but he was an excellent defensive mind who had a major role in Mackovic succeeding in the first place.
The truly bizarre thing about Guentherism was the way it somehow smuggled hatred of the NCAA into absolutely fanatical dedication to NCAA compliance.
Guenther's biggest weakness, besides his bizarre desire to schedule West Coast football teams, was his willingness to hang on to coaches well after their expiration date.
Not at Illinois in the early 90's. We had developed a well-deserved reputation for innovative offenses under White and Mackovic, and a smart AD wasn't going to do anything to disrupt that. When Tepper hired Tom Beck as his first OC I knew he was going to be in trouble.
You're making a point that I'm not sure has been offered much, but it's spot on. I remember a few local names being tossed around at the time, but really we were at a point where we likely could have drawn a big name. Not sure who it might have been, but Mackovich was notoriously a nomad. No way he was staying for the long term. This was prePearl debacle. Probably a very highly sought position in retrospect.
9 years ago, we had an interim chancellor, an interim AD, and an interim coach that got a 2 year contract aptly described as "not ideal"