Coaching Discussion/Carousel

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#152      
There's a lot of different routes to go with this. Maybe this year is like a moneyball/market inefficiency type of year where there's so few openings that there's little competition for top candidates, or some blue blood coaches that get fired looking for a landing spot. Will be interesting to see what jobs open up.
 
#153      
It really depends where you get a P5 coach from, and how long they had been there. Underwood was grabbed early from OSU after only 1 year, before he could truly get established. Something along those lines would be like when MSU grabbed Tucker from Colorado after 1 year. A similar hire in football would maybe be like a Neal Brown from WVU. He's only in his 2nd year, hasn't done anything extraordinary yet, and had a very promising coaching resume at Troy and as an assistant. The problem is the money, as coaches with newer P5 contracts are already making significant salaries and require buyouts. The sitting P5 coach I'm most interested in besides Brown is Dave Clawson at Wake. Since Wake is private, his salary isn't public, but he's an established coach, with a great track record of building programs. Illinois has a much higher ceiling than Wake as a program. If the money is there, I could see him considering the move.

The other P5 head coaches that we would have a chance at are the ones that are getting fired at programs with higher expectations or coaches at programs similar to us but with stagnant results. The "big program" guys are Muschamp, Malzahn, Pruitt, Helton, Herman. Of those, I'm not sure who would work well here. I'd say Tom Herman if Texas axes him could have good potential, with experience in the conference. Not sure that Muschamp, Pruitt, or Helton are that great of coaches, and I don't think Malzahn would be interested. The "stagnant program" guys would be like Narduzzi at Pitt, Babers at Syracuse, Doeren at NC State. Those would require a lot of money and wouldn't really be exciting or proven hires.

I guess that's a long way of saying its possible but probably not likely.
 
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#154      
It really depends where you get a P5 coach from, and how long they had been there. Underwood was grabbed early from OSU after only 1 year, before he could truly get established. Something along those lines would be like when MSU grabbed Tucker from Colorado after 1 year. A similar hire in football would maybe be like a Neal Brown from WVU. He's only in his 2nd year, hasn't done anything extraordinary yet, and had a very promising coaching resume at Troy and as an assistant. The problem is the money, as coaches with newer P5 contracts are already making significant salaries and require buyouts. The sitting P5 coach I'm most interested in besides Brown is Dave Clawson at Wake. Since Wake is private, his salary isn't public, but he's an established coach, with a great track record of building programs. Illinois has a much higher ceiling than Wake as a program. If the money is there, I could see him considering the move.

The other P5 head coaches that we would have a chance at are the ones that are getting fired at programs with higher expectations or coaches at programs similar to us but with stagnant results. The "big program" guys are Muschamp, Malzahn, Pruitt, Helton, Herman. Of those, I'm not sure who would work well here. I'd say Tom Herman if Texas axes him could have good potential, with experience in the conference. Not sure that Muschamp, Pruitt, or Helton are that great of coaches, and I don't think Malzahn would be interested. The "stagnant program" guys would be like Narduzzi at Pitt, Babers at Syracuse, Doeren at NC State. Those would require a lot of money and wouldn't really be exciting or proven hires.

I guess that's a long way of saying its possible but probably not likely.

Um, MSU is a MASSIVE step up from Colorado. On the contrary, we are a MASSIVE step down from WVU.

Guys, let's be realistic. I know that is tough to do, and we want to shoot for the best possible, but that's what has led to a meltdown with the season so far. Yes, I expected us to be much better than we are. But for people that thought this would be a 5 win or more season (out of the 9 games we *should* have), you just were not paying attention to how bad this team could be at times last year.

We are not going to steal someone from a program significantly higher than us right now unless we shell out significantly more money than they currently make. Even that is still a stretch given our track record. Whitman got Underwood from Ok State because, at a minimum, we are an equal program (I would argue that we are a better program). It was a good pickup, but we cannot expect that to happen for football. Our best bet is someone with a proven track record of rebuilding a MAC or other non-Power 5 program IMO.
 
#155      
Um, MSU is a MASSIVE step up from Colorado. On the contrary, we are a MASSIVE step down from WVU.

Guys, let's be realistic. I know that is tough to do, and we want to shoot for the best possible, but that's what has led to a meltdown with the season so far. Yes, I expected us to be much better than we are. But for people that thought this would be a 5 win or more season (out of the 9 games we *should* have), you just were not paying attention to how bad this team could be at times last year.

We are not going to steal someone from a program significantly higher than us right now unless we shell out significantly more money than they currently make. Even that is still a stretch given our track record. Whitman got Underwood from Ok State because, at a minimum, we are an equal program (I would argue that we are a better program). It was a good pickup, but we cannot expect that to happen for football. Our best bet is someone with a proven track record of rebuilding a MAC or other non-Power 5 program IMO.
I agree that MSU is a massive step up from Colorado. I disagree about us being a MASSIVE step down from WVU. A step down yes, definitely, but we have similar ceilings, we've just been pretty much in our basement while WVU has been pretty comfortably within at least reaching distance of their ceiling. I was just trying to think of anything even close to the Underwood move. Those types of moves are so rare. There's also the comfort and location issue. Tucker in Colorado was a weird fit. He has history in the Big Ten. Brown has history in Kentucky so he's probably happy and comfortable at WVU. I was literally just trying to think of comparables. Illinois is still a "name" job in basketball. It has never had that status in football. The only way we could get a sitting P5 coach is if that coach was very unhappy at his current location or is vastly underpaid, and I don't see anyone matching that criteria.
 
#156      
You bring up Babers, which is an interesting one. Here we are in November '20....is Babers still viewed in a favorable light? 24-33 in 4.5 seasons at Syracuse, including 10-3 in 2018. Just 6-14 since then, however. He was white hot in coaching circles, post 2015. Syracuse is not a power in the ACC, I view them as pretty "mid pack". Looks like he signed an extension in 2019, and I doubt Syracuse would let him go even if this year continues to be a big disappointment. Should he be on Whitman's list? Something to think about.
 
#157      
Let's just pry Pete Carroll out of the NFL again and back into college football and call it a day. ;)
 
#158      
Guys. I'm sorry if my posts were misunderstood. I was just trying to address the idea of pulling a P5 head coach. I was just trying to think of who would be similar to the Underwood hire, and who else could be out there that would leave. The best P5 coach we would even have a chance at would be Dave Clawson, but that's just based on assuming he isn't making top of conference style money and the fact that Wake has a much lower ceiling than Illinois. If he's actually making like 4 mil a year, I don't see that as a realistic possibility. Then I tried to think of who would be similar to Underwood, and the examples I thought up were Mel Tucker, who just did that type of move to MSU and then I thought of Neal Brown at WVU. I don't think we actually have any chance at getting him, it was just the type of coach that would be similar to Underwood (only a year or 2 at the high major after dominating at a mid major).

Really our only chance at a current P5 coach is a Zook-like fired coach from a higher tier program, or a mid tier stagnant program. Those options may not even actually happen, and the list isn't that great.
 
#159      
Now that Dino Babers was brought up im afraid to even ask about Sean Lewis from kent st since he coached under babers at eiu, bgsu and syracuse. I still remember the 31-24 scare in 2018, they only won 2 games that year but went 7-6 last year. 2-0 this year. He’s from Illinois and played at wisconsin. Just throwing it out there
 
#160      
You bring up Babers, which is an interesting one. Here we are in November '20....is Babers still viewed in a favorable light? 24-33 in 4.5 seasons at Syracuse, including 10-3 in 2018. Just 6-14 since then, however. He was white hot in coaching circles, post 2015. Syracuse is not a power in the ACC, I view them as pretty "mid pack". Looks like he signed an extension in 2019, and I doubt Syracuse would let him go even if this year continues to be a big disappointment. Should he be on Whitman's list? Something to think about.
Babers is in charge of a desolate program when it comes to recruiting. It is extremely difficult to get the better players to come to that program. The better high school football players choose Syracuse after the school of their choice turns them down or does something to put the desired school in a bad light. A local example would be Donovan McNabb choosing Syracuse because Illinois would not assure him of a shot at qb. I won't drop any names but, there are a number of ex-Syracuse coaches that have expressed that sentiment to me.
 
#161      
Babers is in charge of a desolate program when it comes to recruiting. It is extremely difficult to get the better players to come to that program. The better high school football players choose Syracuse after the school of their choice turns them down or does something to put the desired school in a bad light. A local example would be Donovan McNabb choosing Syracuse because Illinois would not assure him of a shot at qb. I won't drop any names but, there are a number of ex-Syracuse coaches that have expressed that sentiment to me.
How would you describe illinois situation?
 
#163      
How would you describe illinois situation?
I was simply replying to the implication that Babers might not be a good solution because of his record in a couple of years. Since the new practice facility opened, one can't put Illinois in the same frame, regarding recruiting, as Syracuse. Syracuse, NY is a long way from anywhere and it gets incredibly cold there. Somewhat similar to North Dakota. There are a lot of things bad regarding how athletes look at us but, we don't compare to Syracuse.
 
#164      
Well, ILL has tried pro assistant coaches (Valek, Turner), low major head coaches (Blackman, Beckman), former high major head coaches (White, Zook), former pro head coachs (Mackovic (who had coached at Wake Forest before the Chiefs), Smith), and high major assistant coaches (Tepper, Moeller),

By process of elimination, I guess the best option is a current high major head coach because ILL has not tried that option yet.
When I read this I saw you missed one. A high school coach ... of course they would probably turn us down. :oops:
 
#167      
Kent St. coach makes sense if he has a good year. A fired up young guy seems like a good move for this program.
I agree. Sean Lewis is definitely on the list if he has a big year. He checks a lot of boxes, outside of HC experience, but building something at Kent State is significant. He's young, seems to have proven systems, from Illinois, played in B1G. Assuming he has a big year, he definitely seems more like a Matt Campbell than a Tim Beckman.

It may not be fair to Babers, as I'm sure there's plenty of factors for Syracuse's falloff since their 18 season, but Lewis (OC/QB coach) left after that year, and the trajectory of Syracuse flipped at that time.

If anyone has done some digging on Kent State's offense, I'd love to hear more. I find it interesting that most of his experience is in the Babers/Baylor-type offense, while his playing career was in the Alvarez/Wisconsin offense. Does he run a strictly Babers-offense, or is there some nuance with his playing experience in a run-heavy ball-control offense?
 
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#168      
Also, our AD and Lewis seem to have a lot in common, down to their hair style. Academic all-B1G TEs, midwesterners, young, intelligent, fast-risers in their professions. Seems like a good match. I think I'm talking myself into making Lewis #1 on the list. (now watch as Kent State stumbles the rest of the season)

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#170      
I am starting to like the Sean Lewis talk also. He’s making 440000 a year so I would think the jump in salary would be enticing
From my google research just now, it looks like Locksley is the lowest paid B1G coach at 2.6 mil/year. You probably wouldn't even need to go that high to get Lewis. I'm not saying lowball him, but I don't see how he could turn down something in the 2.2-2.5 mil range. That's a good 5x increase. Could also give a sizeable salary pool for assistants.
 
#171      
Sean Lewis sounds great, but from the Twitter comments, it seems like Michigan fans want Sean Lewis. Seems like a bidding war Illinois would lose.

And I don't know about Lance Leipold. Sure, his teams won the NCAA Div III championships in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, and 2014 and were runners-up in 2008, but what about 2012? He seems like one of those coaches who can't sustain success. His wikipedia page makes a big deal about getting to 100 victories faster than any other coach in NCAA history, but even Lovie can get to 100 wins if given time, which should be in 2045 at his current pace. To me, it just makes Illinois seem more patient than UW-Whitewater and therefore a more desirable landing spot for a head coach. And Leipold started out of the gate really hot, but he has cooled down at Buffalo, only going 33-32, and we know who wins a race between a tortoise and a hare, so Illinois might as well keep their tortoise than get this guy.
 
#172      
Im on the Sean Lewis bandwagon, might be the one to finally get talent from in state like Chicago. Id assume if Michigan opens up they would have him farther down their list since its a blue blood. And the more I’ve read about him and enjoyed the maction game the other night he’s jumping up on my wish list of up and comers from the g5.
 
#173      
Carbondale, IL
Potential issue regarding Leipold/Lewis: the MAC season ends on December 12th, four days before early signing day.
 
#174      
Potential issue regarding Leipold/Lewis: the MAC season ends on December 12th, four days before early signing day.
Good point. Technically the B1G season doesn't end til December 19th. Gonna be a weird coaching carousel. I wouldn't be surprised if the teams that are looking for new coaches do it before the end of their seasons. No idea how that would work out with a new staff effectively signing the recruiting class while the old staff finishes the season.

Add in the transfer free-for-all and this will probably be the weirdest and wildest offseason ever.
 
#175      
Sean Lewis sounds great, but from the Twitter comments, it seems like Michigan fans want Sean Lewis. Seems like a bidding war Illinois would lose.

Michigan going from Harbaugh to Lewis seems very unlikely. If they are in the carousel I would expect a much bigger fish. (Matt Campbell, Fickell, etc.). Getting Lewis would probably be highly criticized.
 
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