College Hoops Coaching Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#901      

Ill in Cols

I
Ill in Cols
illini510 said:
My mentality is based on realism, not based on blinders. Maybe you need to take a look back at the entire 2010s to understand that elite coaches don't come to Illinois b/c they didn't want to deal with the politics that is Chicago recruiting. Maybe that isn't as much of an issue anymore with NIL and the transfer portal but Illinois never has been able to get elite level coaches into their program unless they were up and comers like Self or Krueger, who then bolted.

Why would you want that much instability and to essentially start over every 3 or 4 yrs? It's not like none of those guys brought us a national championship, did they? They had some more luck in the tournament but they weren't loyal to Illinois.

I want a loyal coach not a disloyal coach. Loyalty is a strong character trait that many people don't have.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, Lon Kruger had already been to the Elite Eight with K State and Final Four with Florida before Illinois. Wouldn't describe him as an up and comer.
 
#902      

GoodePodzMelendez

G
GoodePodzMelendez
Ill in Cols said:
Just to be clear, Lon Kruger had already been to the Elite Eight with K State and Final Four with Florida before Illinois. Wouldn't describe him as an up and comer.
Click to expand...
If memory recalls, Atlanta was interested in Izzo and he said no, so they went after Lon with a huge contract. I do not think he would have left if Atlanta did not come calling.
 
#904      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
Ill in Cols said:
Just to be clear, Lon Kruger had already been to the Elite Eight with K State and Final Four with Florida before Illinois. Wouldn't describe him as an up and comer.
Click to expand...


michael-scott-the-office.gif
 
#908      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
illini510 said:
My mentality is based on realism, not based on blinders. Maybe you need to take a look back at the entire 2010s to understand that elite coaches don't come to Illinois b/c they didn't want to deal with the politics that is Chicago recruiting. Maybe that isn't as much of an issue anymore with NIL and the transfer portal but Illinois never has been able to get elite level coaches into their program unless they were up and comers like Self or Krueger, who then bolted.

Why would you want that much instability and to essentially start over every 3 or 4 yrs? It's not like none of those guys brought us a national championship, did they? They had some more luck in the tournament but they weren't loyal to Illinois.

I want a loyal coach not a disloyal coach. Loyalty is a strong character trait that many people don't have.
Click to expand...
Realism is not what you’re doing. Your attitude is like pessimism in such a way where you decide that daring to dream and getting hurt isn’t worth it, so you play it too safe and want everyone else to go along with it.

Illinois has plucked two coaches from other Power Five schools in modern history. Not many schools have done that. Stop with this weird self-effacing nonsense, PLEASE. It’s such a bad look for our fan base.
 
#909      

Moe Bias

M
Moe Bias
Roundball Sage said:
“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.”
– Donald Rumsfeld

Not sure where this Rumsfield guy coached (ahem)... but he does have a point here.

In the current speculation about the future of the Illini program... There are things we know. There are things we know we don’t know. And then there are things we don’t know that we don’t know.

Beyond that... I just don’t know.
Click to expand...
I believe this is a more accurate Rumsfeld quote,

"The worst mistake is to have the best ladder and the wrong wall."

Remember, Chaos is a ladder
 
#910      

BashCtIllini

BashCtIllini
BashCtIllini
blife said:
I am genuinely astounded with the number of people on here who would be ok if BU left and are so so confident an UPGRADE is coming in..... WTF have you only been watching UI BB for like the last 4 years. So, you are ok with losing the guy that took us from being a rotting stinking carcass of college BB to a BIG title, BIG tournament champs, 4 20 win seasons in a row, 3 Dance appearances in a row, and can actually id talent and recruit.. Are you just someone needing instant gratification, and that gratification being set by your standards. Seriously this mentality is no different than Skyy's mentality when he walked on us.... these BB results don't MEET MY expectations so BU should take a walk, no big deal. Grass will be greener. Any of you espousing these beliefs ever had to work hard or bust your @$$ to produce results that other people get to judge. Insane talk.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to break it to you but it hasn't been that great. It's been good no doubt, but you're equally as jaded by the Groce years. If you want to look at 4 year spans, Underwood has won 88 games these past 4 years. Groce's best 4 years was 77 wins. Weber's best was 112. Sure you can say but Weber inherited a monster. Ok that is true. If you start after the title game, the next 4 years, Weber won 89 games. And that included a really bad 16 win season. Underwood's best season is 24 wins. Weber did that or better 4 times. Groce's top was 23 wins.

So if you look at Illinois basketball over the past 30ish years, Lou had us rolling and satan killed it. Lon Kruger brought us back, Bill Self took us to the summit (or at least close), Weber continued the climb to the peak, but his poor recruiting brought us back down to just a good team. Groce was the flop. He couldn't get us any better than good. In the last 20 years, which encompasses all of Weber, Groce, and Underwood, the 2 worst seasons belong to Underwood.

These are just the facts. I think Underwood is certainly a very good coach, and there is no debating that. However, I also don't think he is someone like Self where you feel deflated if he leaves. I personally don't think he is a top 10 coach in the nation, despite being paid like one. Ultimately I think Underwood is here next year, but if he's not, I'm personally not too concerned.
 
#911      

Rap47

R
Rap47
BashCtIllini said:
I'm sorry to break it to you but it hasn't been that great. It's been good no doubt, but you're equally as jaded by the Groce years. If you want to look at 4 year spans, Underwood has won 88 games these past 4 years. Groce's best 4 years was 77 wins. Weber's best was 112. Sure you can say but Weber inherited a monster. Ok that is true. If you start after the title game, the next 4 years, Weber won 89 games. And that included a really bad 16 win season. Underwood's best season is 24 wins. Weber did that or better 4 times. Groce's top was 23 wins.

So if you look at Illinois basketball over the past 30ish years, Lou had us rolling and satan killed it. Lon Kruger brought us back, Bill Self took us to the summit (or at least close), Weber continued the climb to the peak, but his poor recruiting brought us back down to just a good team. Groce was the flop. He couldn't get us any better than good. In the last 20 years, which encompasses all of Weber, Groce, and Underwood, the 2 worst seasons belong to Underwood.

These are just the facts. I think Underwood is certainly a very good coach, and there is no debating that. However, I also don't think he is someone like Self where you feel deflated if he leaves. I personally don't think he is a top 10 coach in the nation, despite being paid like one. Ultimately I think Underwood is here next year, but if he's not, I'm personally not too concerned.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you weren't obelisk in a different time. The next positive post from you will be your first.
 
#913      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
BashCtIllini said:
I'm sorry to break it to you but it hasn't been that great. It's been good no doubt, but you're equally as jaded by the Groce years. If you want to look at 4 year spans, Underwood has won 88 games these past 4 years. Groce's best 4 years was 77 wins. Weber's best was 112. Sure you can say but Weber inherited a monster. Ok that is true. If you start after the title game, the next 4 years, Weber won 89 games. And that included a really bad 16 win season. Underwood's best season is 24 wins. Weber did that or better 4 times. Groce's top was 23 wins.

So if you look at Illinois basketball over the past 30ish years, Lou had us rolling and satan killed it. Lon Kruger brought us back, Bill Self took us to the summit (or at least close), Weber continued the climb to the peak, but his poor recruiting brought us back down to just a good team. Groce was the flop. He couldn't get us any better than good. In the last 20 years, which encompasses all of Weber, Groce, and Underwood, the 2 worst seasons belong to Underwood.

These are just the facts. I think Underwood is certainly a very good coach, and there is no debating that. However, I also don't think he is someone like Self where you feel deflated if he leaves. I personally don't think he is a top 10 coach in the nation, despite being paid like one. Ultimately I think Underwood is here next year, but if he's not, I'm personally not too concerned.
Click to expand...
Not to nitpick, BUT … it is at least worth noting that Underwood’s best team by far (#1 seed in 2021) didn’t get to play a full schedule, arguably his second best team (2020) didn’t get to play a single BTT or NCAAT game due to COVID and his 2022 team never got to make up a cupcake game that was postponed (forever) due to COVID. He’s easily in the 90s without COVID.
 
#914      

BashCtIllini

BashCtIllini
BashCtIllini
Rap47 said:
Are you sure you weren't obelisk in a different time. The next positive post from you will be your first.
Click to expand...
haha ok dude. You surely follow my posts religiously. I'm a well known negative person.

I literally put the wins of our last 3 coaches in a spreadsheet and reviewed them. When you do that, you will see that outside of the Groce years and the tail end of Weber, what we're seeing now is what Illinois basketball has been. Weber didn't have a single 4 year span where he won less than 81 games. But if stating facts is negative, I guess you're right.
 
#919      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Moe Bias said:
I believe this is a more accurate Rumsfeld quote,

"The worst mistake is to have the best ladder and the wrong wall."

Remember, Chaos is a ladder
Click to expand...

OK... your quote brought these thoughts to mind...

‘Chaos’ is the existence (what appears to be) unpredictable behavior. Sort of like what happens on a basketball court. If the same thing happened every time down the floor there’d be no reason for anyone to watch. Or to play, for that matter.

And also, chaos is like what happens to College basketball coaches when the season is over and various and many fan bases are quite freshly salty and sour about how their favorite teams washed and flamed out over the previous few nervous weeks. And fan base after fan base identifying the problem as being their current head coach and all proposing that The Promised Land will be reached once their program hires the latest Shiny Thing Coach to magically take all the problems away.

A good roundball fan has to love chaos because – as previously said – this game is fundamentally organized chaos. Or perhaps better said... trying to bring order OUT of chaos. But not just any order. An order that always ends with... WE WIN!

All fan bases are begging for the Quick Ladder to the Pinnacle. The one and only team out of hundreds that has survived the perilous gauntlet of a long regular season... conference tournament... and ultimately, the joyous thrills of standing tall as the last and only team standing at the end after a series of challenges that all sought your ruin and demise.

Everyone and every team hoping to match the Best Ladder to the Right Wall. And hoping that nobody slips while climbing their way UP.
 
#923      

Rap47

R
Rap47
BashCtIllini said:
haha ok dude. You surely follow my posts religiously. I'm a well known negative person.

I literally put the wins of our last 3 coaches in a spreadsheet and reviewed them. When you do that, you will see that outside of the Groce years and the tail end of Weber, what we're seeing now is what Illinois basketball has been. Weber didn't have a single 4 year span where he won less than 81 games. But if stating facts is negative, I guess you're right.
Click to expand...
Some of you have ripped Underwood repeatedly, just let up. This isn't a topic to say how bad he is but how coaches are changing. Everyone on here knows how you feel.
 
#924      

Rudd21

R
Rudd21
jason88cubs said:
I was young when Kruger left but I can't believe many were ready for him to go. Regarding Chicago didn't the coaches up there freeze him out since they wanted Jimmy Collins to get the job?

he was 81-48 38-28 in big ten which includes the 98-99 season where we only had 3 upperclassmen and only won 3 big ten games, he started to get us back to where we were going to be a yearly contender and Self took over.

I thought Kruger was great, of course it was great getting Self but Kruger is no slouch
Click to expand...

Whatever the reason, Kruger couldn’t land a once in a generation type talent. Back in the late 1990s the state of Illinois was loaded. And Kruger didn’t have much NCAA success (at Illinois) either, losing to Chattanooga and Maryland. I think he was a decent coach that couldn’t be relied upon to land consistent studs. Relying on downstate talent (Cook, Manual guys) was never going to be sustainable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.