If we were getting top 10 recruiting classes with a couple of 5 stars every year I could almost understand this line of thinking, but we don't. Regardless of who our coach is we can not compete with the blue bloods and a handful of other schools on recruiting. I think Brad has done a great job with what he has had to work especially considering all the injuries and other distractions he has had to deal with. Go Illini!!!
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sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
So I think your overall point is that we need to pay a coach top 10 in the country salary just to have top 25ish teams because we have structural disadvantages that we can never overcome? If i had to guess, I would say JW doesn't think about it like that.
Frankly, if BU does get axed, i don't think it'll be due to results alone. I think results will be part of it, but the fact that BU has been sniffing around other programs, specifically those that aren't upgrades from UIUC despite the pay and support he's gotten from JW, will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. He's lost a lot of benefit of the doubt on the results side from his boss by playing that game, imo.
I think of it differently.
We are NOT a top 10 program in the country. We haven't been a top 25 program in the country since Dee and Deron. Thus, to attract a great coach, you MUST PAY MORE than your status.
By paying more, we have had 3 straight NCAA tournament appearances (would have been 4 but for COVID). Paying a premium for that makes perfect sense.
theNewGuy
- Dallas, TX
fair point. BU got us back into national relevancy, but if this team keeps failing to live up to expectations, Brad will be gone sooner rather than later.
Like I said, Being a ridiculously high paid coach comes with ridiculously high expectations.
We could very easily find ourselves in a "tweener" type of situation - we consistently finish in the top half of the big 10 and make the NCAA tourney, but don't make it to the Sweet 16 or seriously challenge for conference titles. Kind of like where Henson was after the '89 season.
Can sniff the HOF with a career like that.
I don't agree that Keady's Purdue was a "tweener" program in the way BlueMountain defined it. But he is relevant to our conversation.
Second winningest coach in B1G history.
Won the conference in ~25% of his seasons
Made the tournament in ~70% of his seasons
Made the s16 in ~20% of his seasons
But could never get Purdue to a Final Four.
Hard to turn your nose up at that but man, I don't know. I'm tired of being "the best program never to win a natty". So if given the option to lock in that resume for Illinois, I'm not sure I would take it.
You don't need to explain to me why I'm crazy for not wanting one of the best coaches in B1G history. It's a hot take. I get it lol
THAT is pretty amazing.
Jeff Van Gundy was recently a guest on the Ryen Russillo podcast. Among several topics discussed that often come up in threads discussing coaching performance ...
1. Coaching continuity is undervalued.
2. Complaining about a lack of adjustments is a trendy way for fans and media members to sound smart, but rarely is that critique paired with concrete and non-superficial insights into the adjustments that ought to have been employed.
3. While adjustments may be called for, a failure to adequately execute the original plan is just as likely to be the root cause of a poor performance, and sticking with the original plan may be the best course of action.
Though I'm sympathetic to each of these points, I'm mostly just sharing info on an interesting perspective. I perceive JVG to be a pretty smart analyst, and enjoy listening to his thoughts, even when I disagree.
1. Coaching continuity is undervalued.
2. Complaining about a lack of adjustments is a trendy way for fans and media members to sound smart, but rarely is that critique paired with concrete and non-superficial insights into the adjustments that ought to have been employed.
3. While adjustments may be called for, a failure to adequately execute the original plan is just as likely to be the root cause of a poor performance, and sticking with the original plan may be the best course of action.
Though I'm sympathetic to each of these points, I'm mostly just sharing info on an interesting perspective. I perceive JVG to be a pretty smart analyst, and enjoy listening to his thoughts, even when I disagree.
Unfortunately, at this time Brad Underwood is much closer to being Bruce Weber than he is Bill Self. Other than the 05 group, I would argue he has had better talent the last few years than Weber. I was a big Brad fan until the recent debacle. It’s been suggested that most of our woes last year were due to guys that would not run the offense or play together. A 5 star recruit that we begged to come here, made promises to, then jumps ship after being punched? Epps with his cry baby attitude and we keep playing him? Coleman Hawkins shooting 3 pointers from half court? Who is running the asylum?
Then his agent is out soliciting other opportunities?
The names will change and we will once again march out a respectable lineup (on paper). It’s time for Brad to show what he can do or move on. I would have rather changed directions and went with a more proven commodity in Sean Miller if he was interested in coming here. He was very good when he cheated, now everything he did is legal, the sky would be the limit with him! The only coach we have had with his proven background was Lon Kruger. We tend to swing at up and comers in lieu of proven commodities.
I appreciate what Brad has done to bring us back to relevancy. He has had some success in the Big10, but it’s not like the other conference teams have been tearing it up, might be as much of right time right place. This coming year will answer questions one way or the other. jmo
Then his agent is out soliciting other opportunities?
The names will change and we will once again march out a respectable lineup (on paper). It’s time for Brad to show what he can do or move on. I would have rather changed directions and went with a more proven commodity in Sean Miller if he was interested in coming here. He was very good when he cheated, now everything he did is legal, the sky would be the limit with him! The only coach we have had with his proven background was Lon Kruger. We tend to swing at up and comers in lieu of proven commodities.
I appreciate what Brad has done to bring us back to relevancy. He has had some success in the Big10, but it’s not like the other conference teams have been tearing it up, might be as much of right time right place. This coming year will answer questions one way or the other. jmo
Jeff Van Gundy smart?????? Are you kidding? The guys on here would rip his logic to shreds, myself included! He wouldn't stand a chance.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Bigtex
- DFW
Your view of underwood and program is how I see it.
People on here talking about how BU is on a short rope and then complain that his agent is snooping around, lol.
Weber came here and walked into a loaded roster. BU came here and walked into a dumpter fire. Move seven years down each timeline and compare. Big difference. Guess winningest program for last four years in the B1G isn't showing what he can do.
Bill Self also walked into a situation here with a loaded roster. Agree that Self is an excellent coach, but BU had a much harder job than Self had.
The Kruger/Self and first 2 years of Weber were the best stretch of Illinois basketball in the modern era by far, and our fans think that is what we have the right to expect as the standard indefinitely. OK.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
B1G record over a 6 season span leading up to the Underwood hire:
43-65.
B1G record over the past 4 seasons with Underwood at the helm:
53-25.
For the 2016/2017 seasons (2 yr span before Underwood was hired) our average final KenPom ranking was 96.
Our preseason rank in Torvik for next year is 26.
This thread is a joke.
43-65.
B1G record over the past 4 seasons with Underwood at the helm:
53-25.
For the 2016/2017 seasons (2 yr span before Underwood was hired) our average final KenPom ranking was 96.
Our preseason rank in Torvik for next year is 26.
This thread is a joke.
Some posters here . . . wow.
Last year and our tournament performance have highlighted BU's coaching deficiencies, which could end up being an issue. But for now, coming off 4 straight tourney level teams, being 2 years away from a big 10 championship and 3 years away from a #2 ranking, this is very premature
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Who recruited Kofi?
Big Jack
- Decatur
That's not a good argument. Who got Kofi here and designed the way we played? You all have lost your minds if you don't think Brad was a serious upgrade from Bruce and JFG. We are relevant in the B1G again. Making the dance. Yes we have dropped a load in tournament play but we are there,not on the outside looking in. At this point we need to get better in post season play but keep in mind the landscape in CBB is changing dramatically, changes in how we bring in players is changing but I trust Brad to get us back to the 2nd weekend.
I do believe that it is time for a staff shakeup if things remain the same. Maybe time to replace GA with a better offensive minded coach.
AyoDos11
- Southern Illinois
So by that logic, cottage cheese isn't good, because if it didn't have curds it wouldn't be good. Makes sense.
RedRocksIllini
- Morrison, CO
Worst ever fierljeppen.Some posters here . . . wow.
Illinicpa14
- Chicago
The fact JFG couldn’t get to the dance with hill and nunn (yes I know more to it) who have both been on NBA rosters and Nunn got an okay contract is wild.
not a Groce defender at all, but he really only had the 2 of them together during their freshmen season.
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