Conference Realignment, Naming Rights, Financing

#176      
I get what you are saying but conference names are meaningless so it really shouldn't be a sticking point. It's just a brand that can be re-branded.
 
#178      
I get what you are saying but conference names are meaningless so it really shouldn't be a sticking point. It's just a brand that can be re-branded.
I think the deeper argument that’s being made by some others as well is that the product could suffer, re-brand or not. Kind of like when they tried changing the formula to Coca Cola.
 
#179      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Oh boy. Article showing ESPN as a potential power broker between ACC and SEC teams since they have the media rights to both conferences. Even if the B1G doesn’t want Clemson and FSU, not sure I like ESPN holding the keys here…

ESPN having an opt-out in 2027 for the ACC deal is a potentially big deal that I had missed.

2 years ago you'd have said "that deal is way way undervalued so that's irrelevant, ESPN would never opt out".

But with the cable market collapsing the way it is, and Disney desperately shedding costs, maybe that isn't true anymore? And if ESPN is sincerely of a mind to walk away in 2027 (which I still *kinda* doubt, but it's one high stakes game of poker), the race is on, we are in the dealmaking space right now. Sounds like they're at least talking about it, trying to make the ACC think they'll walk in order to extract concessions.

Jim Phillips is in a real tricky spot too, because his membership have EXTREMELY differing views on whether they want the ACC to exist in 2028. What is even the voting rights situation in that conference on April 15, 2024? Who does Jim Phillips work for?
 
#180      

Epsilon

M tipping over
Pdx
ESPN having an opt-out in 2027 for the ACC deal is a potentially big deal that I had missed.

2 years ago you'd have said "that deal is way way undervalued so that's irrelevant, ESPN would never opt out".

But with the cable market collapsing the way it is, and Disney desperately shedding costs, maybe that isn't true anymore? And if ESPN is sincerely of a mind to walk away in 2027 (which I still *kinda* doubt, but it's one high stakes game of poker), the race is on, we are in the dealmaking space right now. Sounds like they're at least talking about it, trying to make the ACC think they'll walk in order to extract concessions.

Jim Phillips is in a real tricky spot too, because his membership have EXTREMELY differing views on whether they want the ACC to exist in 2028. What is even the voting rights situation in that conference on April 15, 2024? Who does Jim Phillips work for?
It’s odd. ESPN can cancel the deal unilaterally in 2025 (which would be effective 2027), but the grant of rights is enforceable through 2036 regardless of whether ESPN exercises the continuation of the deal. That’s a lot of faith that things will “work out.” Their deal is reportedly worth $240 million while the B1G and SEC have contracts worth 3-4x that. That’s a lot of incentive for the ACC schools to leave. The premise of the article I attached in my last post was that ESPN would be good with a school leaving the ACC for the SEC but I’m not sure they want that unless ESPN can get away with not increasing the SEC contract with any more school additions, as the SEC contract is way more expensive for them. It’s hard to imagine ESPN being able to squeeze more out of the ACC when their contract is so inferior. But they could speak out of both sides of their mouth to the ACC and say that if there are fewer schools then they don’t want to renew the contract, while also not giving more to the SEC for Clemson and FSU.

 
#181      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
It’s odd. ESPN can cancel the deal unilaterally in 2025 (which would be effective 2027), but the grant of rights is enforceable through 2036 regardless of whether ESPN exercises the continuation of the deal. That’s a lot of faith that things will “work out.”
Faith and/or poor and thoughtless legal drafting.

I’m not sure they want that unless ESPN can get away with not increasing the SEC contract with any more school additions, as the SEC contract is way more expensive for them.
The idea is that it keeps FSU and Clemson on the ESPN side of the ESPN/Fox war. On the theory that given free choice they'd prefer the Big Ten.

But the question after the signing of the new CFP deal with just ESPN and a vague hand-wave toward future sublicensing is, is that war even still operative? Are any of these guys even thinking that far into the future.

In 2024 any company whose core business is media is bleeding money and hoping for some white knight to buy them. It's an extremely volatile and unpredictable situation, the only certainty for these purposes is that the various sports properties cannot sustain, let alone grow, the media rights fees that have been the cornerstone of the industry for three decades.
 
#182      

Epsilon

M tipping over
Pdx
Faith and/or poor and thoughtless legal drafting.


The idea is that it keeps FSU and Clemson on the ESPN side of the ESPN/Fox war. On the theory that given free choice they'd prefer the Big Ten.

But the question after the signing of the new CFP deal with just ESPN and a vague hand-wave toward future sublicensing is, is that war even still operative? Are any of these guys even thinking that far into the future.

In 2024 any company whose core business is media is bleeding money and hoping for some white knight to buy them. It's an extremely volatile and unpredictable situation, the only certainty for these purposes is that the various sports properties cannot sustain, let alone grow, the media rights fees that have been the cornerstone of the industry for three decades.
Where do you see that the media companies are bleeding money? Just curious.

I did look up Disney and Fox and one thing that stood out to me is their net income numbers relative to the B1G and SEC contracts, which are $1 billon and $700 million annually, respectively, if one of the articles I posted is to be trusted. Disney’s net profit was $2.4 billion while Fox earned $1.2 billion in 2023. Seems like there would be a huge incentive to try to negotiate those contracts downward at some point. They really do seem pretty bloated atm. The question I have is what does that mean for schools that have been doing gargantuan renovation or stadium rebuilds predicated on the assumption that that level of money would continue indefinitely…?



 
#183      

Epsilon

M tipping over
Pdx
In case there was any doubt about how much money there is in college sports (football in particular), here is an article reporting on all the ongoing stadium renovations. Need all that conference share media revenue…

 
#184      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Where do you see that the media companies are bleeding money? Just curious.

I did look up Disney and Fox and one thing that stood out to me is their net income numbers relative to the B1G and SEC contracts, which are $1 billon and $700 million annually, respectively, if one of the articles I posted is to be trusted. Disney’s net profit was $2.4 billion while Fox earned $1.2 billion in 2023. Seems like there would be a huge incentive to try to negotiate those contracts downward at some point. They really do seem pretty bloated atm. The question I have is what does that mean for schools that have been doing gargantuan renovation or stadium rebuilds predicated on the assumption that that level of money would continue indefinitely…?



Yeah Disney has a lot of other stuff in the tent that makes up for the Disney+ bloodbath. They are looking to sell ESPN though.

It's bad at Fox, worse at Paramount (CBS) which is now being sold to a plutocrat failson, and worse still at Warner Brothers Discovery (TNT/TBS) which just failed to merge with Paramount.

All the regional sports networks are in their death throes.

The TV audience just isn't there like it used to be.

In terms of schools doing a lot of capital investment, a lot of it is donor funded, and the media revenue isn't going to go to zero, lots of people still love watching sports and are willing to pay to do so. The schools and teams and leagues will muddle through. But the age of endless growth on the backs of people who DON'T watch or care about sports is over.
 
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#185      
With the growth of streaming the last pillar of TV is live sports. That is what is driving the mega bids for B10 and SEC.
JMO - ACC contract is so cheap that ESPN will keep it. Whomever negotiated that contract for ACC should definitely be fired.
 
#186      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
Yeah Disney has a lot of other stuff in the tent that makes up for the Disney+ bloodbath. They are looking to sell ESPN though.

It's bad at Fox, worse at Paramount (CBS) which is now being sold to a plutocrat failson, and worse still at Warner Brothers Discovery (TNT/TBS) which just failed to merge with Paramount.

All the regional sports networks are in their death throes.

The TV audience just isn't there like it used to be.

In terms of schools doing a lot of capital investment, a lot of it is donor funded, and the media revenue isn't going to go to zero, lots of people still love watching sports and are willing to pay to do so. The schools and teams and leagues will muddle through. But the age of endless growth on the backs of people who DON'T watch or care about sports is over.
what goes up , must come down
spinning wheel, got to go round
 
#188      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
All the regional sports networks are in their death throes.

The Blackhawks really need to ask themselves what's in it for them being Jerry Reinsdorf's business partner. The plan here is to use Connor Bedard to keep the White Sox on Chicagoland TV screens and even then it's probably an uphill battle.

Marquee Network was a bad idea and is a weak entity, but it's a better home for the Hawks than that plan.
 
#189      
Oh boy. Article showing ESPN as a potential power broker between ACC and SEC teams since they have the media rights to both conferences. Even if the B1G doesn’t want Clemson and FSU, not sure I like ESPN holding the keys here…

I know as much about realignment as George Kliavkoff, but I don't see the issue here. It just says Nebraksa's next "rivals" may join the SEC instead of big 10. That would leave SEC with 16 teams, no?, and the big 10 would still have, arguably, bigger names in the sport.
As an aside, kinda funny that that site uses old Giants/Illinois logo style.
 
#190      

Epsilon

M tipping over
Pdx
I know as much about realignment as George Kliavkoff, but I don't see the issue here. It just says Nebraksa's next "rivals" may join the SEC instead of big 10. That would leave SEC with 16 teams, no?, and the big 10 would still have, arguably, bigger names in the sport.
As an aside, kinda funny that that site uses old Giants/Illinois logo style.
The issue is how those realignments occur and that ESPN could flex its muscle as a power broker. They have no duty of care in this situation.
 
#191      
The issue is how those realignments occur and that ESPN could flex its muscle as a power broker. They have no duty of care in this situation.
I get it. I just don't see the threat if they're counterbalanced by Fox. I guess we'll see.
 
#192      
With the growth of streaming the last pillar of TV is live sports. That is what is driving the mega bids for B10 and SEC.
JMO - ACC contract is so cheap that ESPN will keep it. Whomever negotiated that contract for ACC should definitely be fired.
ACC wanted to stay together & it is yet to be determined if it is a good or bad deal IMO...To much of the PAC12 folks it looks pretty good right now...Stanford & California were happy to jump across the country to take less, Washington State/Oregon State would take it in a heartbeat. If you are talking about the ESPN opt out part yeah maybe...but again a few PAC12 teams have or would jump at it.

The whole long term GOR deal the schools agreed to still seems like the worst bit of this for 1/2 the ACC that was panicking after losing MD & realizing they were vulnerable. Personally I blame NC most for this (rightly or wrongly, but I blame UNC for most of the world's problems), they seemed to have the position of power & were willing to pull everyone into the long tern deal/GOR to save the ACC & their position as kingpin
 
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#193      
In case there was any doubt about how much money there is in college sports (football in particular), here is an article reporting on all the ongoing stadium renovations. Need all that conference share media revenue…

So many great templates for the Horseshoe in there!
 
#195      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
We're on Day 3 of this song being in my head
sung so well by Tom Jones

up until about 10 years ago , I really wasn’t a fan of his . Then a couple friends of ours asked us to go see him with them at House of Blues

WOW !!
what a show & what an entertainer !!
he’s on par with Elvis & Sinatra . he was awesome . sang hit after hit for 2 hours
 
#196      

Serious Late

Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Missouri State leaving The Valley for C-USA.

There have to be some Illinois State fans on here. My brother is always insisting ISU has the most underachieving Athletic Department in all of college athletics. That the size of the school, location, education, alumni base, etc. should dictate some higher standing in the pecking order.

Why are they so stuck as borderline irrelevant in the MVC?
 
#197      
Missouri State leaving The Valley for C-USA.

There have to be some Illinois State fans on here. My brother is always insisting ISU has the most underachieving Athletic Department in all of college athletics. That the size of the school, location, education, alumni base, etc. should dictate some higher standing in the pecking order.

Why are they so stuck as borderline irrelevant in the MVC?
I say the same thing about our football program, but even overall we haven't had a national championship in ANY sport since 2012, and only 23 in our history: https://fightingillini.com/sports/2018/4/14/history-ncaa-championships.aspx
 
#199      
ACC wanted to stay together & it is yet to be determined if it is a good or bad deal IMO...To much of the PAC12 folks it looks pretty good right now...Stanford & California were happy to jump across the country to take less, Washington State/Oregon State would take it in a heartbeat. If you are talking about the ESPN opt out part yeah maybe...but again a few PAC12 teams have or would jump at it.

The whole long term GOR deal the schools agreed to still seems like the worst bit of this for 1/2 the ACC that was panicking after losing MD & realizing they were vulnerable. Personally I blame NC most for this (rightly or wrongly, but I blame UNC for most of the world's problems), they seemed to have the position of power & were willing to pull everyone into the long tern deal/GOR to save the ACC & their position as kingpin

You can't go wrong blaming UNC for anything and everything. 4 out of 5 Podiatrists will tell you that UNC is responsible for post nasal drip.
 
#200      

Shief

Champaign Area
Missouri State leaving The Valley for C-USA.

There have to be some Illinois State fans on here. My brother is always insisting ISU has the most underachieving Athletic Department in all of college athletics. That the size of the school, location, education, alumni base, etc. should dictate some higher standing in the pecking order.

Why are they so stuck as borderline irrelevant in the MVC?
I am not surprised to hear Missouri State is moving up. That rumor has been going around for a few years.

I grew up near ISU and I also feel like they should be higher profile. When I was younger, I heard a rumor that an Illinois Assemblyman that graduated from Illinois but who represented the Bloomington-Normal area put forward a bill to have UI and ISU play annually in football, with the hope of building up ISU but that did not pan out. Then in the late-2000s/early-2010s the State of Illinois was trying to 'get a second state school in the Big 10' and many thought that ISU could built up to that, that obviously did not happen. All that to say, ISU was the first state school but Illinois grew and gained most of the attention.