Conference Realignment

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#651      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
BretMyBeachHouse said:
Travel to Washington State has always been legendarily bad. It really reduces their attraction. They bring little to the table and take a lot.
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I would guess that if you ranked all the Power Five schools by the median distance away from their campus that the players on their roster come from, Washington State would be the furthest. The most remote from talent, in other words.

And yet, they have frequently overcome that to produce fun and entertaining and really good teams. The mega-brands that have every advantage come up to Pullman where it always seems like there's a mist in the air and the clouds are about five feet above the ground and some corn-fed oaf quarterback throws for about 500 yards and upsets them.

That's why it was, was, the best sport out there.
 
#652      

altgeld88

altgeld88
Arlington, Virginia
altgeld88
PNWIllini said:
Travel to Pullman WA from Seattle is easy. “Go east ‘til you smell it and south ‘til you step in it.”

We are seriously going to miss the Apple Cup. Its a huge thing in Washington State, still. The fanbases of both schools love to talk crap about each other, but it’s ultimately a friendly, family back yard BBQ kind of matchup. Same goes for the formerly known as the Civil War in Oregon. Realignment is murdering these traditions.
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Yes. Yes. Yes. One other item rarely noted in these conference expansion post mortem discussions: traditions matter to, and form, culture. Per GK Chesterton's famous observation, tearing down fences because one doesn't see the point of their existence, without pausing for a long while and reflecting on why someone erected the fence in the first place often results in misery.

Look around us broadly today and tell me with conviction that obliterating tradition thoughtlessly and for myopic gain is an unalloyed good.
 
#653      

Old.Edgy

O
Old.Edgy
BretMyBeachHouse said:
Travel to Washington State has always been legendarily bad. It really reduces their attraction. They bring little to the table and take a lot.
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Even driving across the mountain from Seattle in late November has been more and more difficult each year....
 
#654      

Bucktown

B
Bucktown
PNWIllini said:
Travel to Pullman WA from Seattle is easy. “Go east ‘til you smell it and south ‘til you step in it.”

We are seriously going to miss the Apple Cup. It’s a huge thing in Washington State, still. The fanbases of both schools love to talk crap about each other, but it’s ultimately a friendly, family back yard BBQ kind of matchup. Same goes for the formerly known as the Civil War in Oregon. Realignment is murdering these traditions.
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I believe the UW administration has indicated a commitment to continue the Apple Cup, and the Civil War will probably continue with protected rivalries in the BIG 10.
 
#655      

altgeld88

altgeld88
Arlington, Virginia
altgeld88
Bucktown said:
I believe the UW administration has indicated a commitment to continue the Apple Cup, and the Civil War will probably continue with protected rivalries in the BIG 10.
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They have, in both cases. However, the conference context in which certain such rivalries occurred (and that often gave them heightened importance) is gone, never to return.
 
#656      

PNWIllini

P
PNW
PNWIllini
ChiefGritty said:
I would guess that if you ranked all the Power Five schools by the median distance away from their campus that the players on their roster come from, Washington State would be the furthest. The most remote from talent, in other words.

And yet, they have frequently overcome that to produce fun and entertaining and really good teams. The mega-brands that have every advantage come up to Pullman where it always seems like there's a mist in the air and the clouds are about five feet above the ground and some corn-fed oaf quarterback throws for about 500 yards and upsets them.

That's why it was, was, the best sport out there.
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Hey you can’t talk about Gardner Minshew Or Ryan Leaf like that.
 
#658      

PNWIllini

P
PNW
PNWIllini
Bucktown said:
I believe the UW administration has indicated a commitment to continue the Apple Cup, and the Civil War will probably continue with protected rivalries in the BIG 10.
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The Civil War is/was Oregon State - Oregon.

Oregon v Washington has no name. It’s just a war. Unlike the Apple Cup, Huskies and Ducks do in fact hate each other and want to hurt the other one. Its Michigan v Ohio State style. Maybe worse. Maybe like playing Iowa in basketball at Carver Hawkeye on Bruce Pearl Appreciation Night.
 
#659      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Joel Goodson said:
and it wouldn't surprise me one bit, if the BIG throws its weight around when negotiations for the next iteration of CFPs begins. in fact, I expect that. the conference is going to have a stuff-ton of leverage. might just chuck the CFP and go with an SEC v BIG format. the writing is on the wall, the P2 is going to breakaway from the NCAA.
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The CFP is not operated by the NCAA, remember.

You're right that access to the 12 team playoff, both for teams and broadcasters, is the next big front in this war.

I don't see leaving the NCAA on the horizon though, for two reasons

1. The NCAA tournament (which IS operated by the NCAA and has a multibillion dollar TV contract through 2032) is still a monster money-maker for everyone involved, so you'd really need a good reason to rock that boat

2. The NCAA basically doesn't exist anymore as a barrier to the professionalization of football. Paying players is legal, any major enforcement case would lose in court, they don't have any input or control over the TV situation. They're just sort of a convenient fig leaf.

On the contrary, major college football exiting the NCAA is what SHOULD have happened 20-25 years ago when it was obvious to everyone that amateurism was nonviable and would have allowed for collective governance and, critically, collective TV bargaining that would have stopped all of this from happening.

The big four American pro leagues succeed financially because they're a (legal, somehow) anticompetitive cartel. College football is tearing itself apart because it's not.
 
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#660      

BretMyBeachHouse

B
BretMyBeachHouse
IlliniKrush said:
Additionally I have long complained that the current bowl system allows the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. The extra practice time which is used more for development than game planning and the real experience your future starters get in that game is a real advantage. Plus recruits can visit and see you practice after their season. The teams that actually need that extra development to improve and get better don’t get it which just puts them further and further away from those that do.
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This is why getting to a bowl is so critical. So the 10 conference game schedule poses a big issue to teams like illinois.
 
#662      

BretMyBeachHouse

B
BretMyBeachHouse
ChiefGritty said:
I would guess that if you ranked all the Power Five schools by the median distance away from their campus that the players on their roster come from, Washington State would be the furthest. The most remote from talent, in other words.

And yet, they have frequently overcome that to produce fun and entertaining and really good teams. The mega-brands that have every advantage come up to Pullman where it always seems like there's a mist in the air and the clouds are about five feet above the ground and some corn-fed oaf quarterback throws for about 500 yards and upsets them.

That's why it was, was, the best sport out there.
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They aren't likely to reach any previous heights as members of the MWC.
 
#663      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
I just want to get on with it. I think everyone knows from the fans to the schools to the networks what is what and who wants who. FB drives this, there are 3 major conferences, they all need to sit down with each other and the networks and formulate how these 3 leagues will work together. The sooner they get aligned and leave the NCAA on the sidelines, the faster they can all start making major money again and we as fans can have fun again.
 
#664      

RabidDawgClassic

RabidDawgClassic
RabidDawgClassic
With all these radical changes happening so fast, why is anyone assuming college football will stay with the standard 12 game regular season? They’ve essentially got the whole month of December to add 2-3 more games. And that’s assuming they’re married to the old school New Years (ish) postseason. Or even bowls in general. It’s being blown up already… why not blow it up all the way?
 
#665      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Ryllini said:
I just want to get on with it. I think everyone knows from the fans to the schools to the networks what is what and who wants who. FB drives this, there are 3 major conferences, they all need to sit down with each other and the networks and formulate how these 3 leagues will work together. The sooner they get aligned and leave the NCAA on the sidelines, the faster they can all start making major money again and we as fans can have fun again.
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The idea that the Big XII is a "major conference" containing no major brands, while hand-waving away the ACC is just pure college football beat writer brain. Oh they added schools therefore they are powerful and winning.

The idea that this is some triumph over the evil NCAA is also just a bizarre brainworm.

Conferences don't exist. The NCAA doesn't exist in any meaningful sense. Only two forces that mean anything exist in college football: Fox and ESPN.
 
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#666      

uofi7477

uofi7477
Silver & Gold Vandals
uofi7477
PNWIllini said:
Travel to Pullman WA from Seattle is easy. “Go east ‘til you smell it and south ‘til you step in it.”

We are seriously going to miss the Apple Cup. Its a huge thing in Washington State, still. The fanbases of both schools love to talk crap about each other, but it’s ultimately a friendly, family back yard BBQ kind of matchup. Same goes for the formerly known as the Civil War in Oregon. Realignment is murdering these traditions.
Click to expand...
Well, there is always the Battle of the Palouse so all is not lost. Now played every few years instead of annually with the University of Idaho in Moscow Idaho 8 miles away from Washington State University in Pullman Washington. In my Father's day around 1950, he told me that they would walk to the games in Pullman. My Grandfather actually played for Idaho in these games around 1910. And for me in 1970, I was way too cool to be into sports.
 
#667      

PNWIllini

P
PNW
PNWIllini
Confirmed from one of my Husky buddies that the Oregon game with UW “has no name, just F those guys.”

Pretty much Seattle’s views on Oregon in general.
 
#673      

Navy_illini

N
Navy_illini
ChiefGritty said:
The CFP is not operated by the NCAA, remember.

You're right that access to the 12 team playoff, both for teams and broadcasters, is the next big front in this war.

I don't see leaving the NCAA on the horizon though, for two reasons

1. The NCAA tournament (which IS operated by the NCAA and has a multibillion dollar TV contract through 2032) is still a monster money-maker for everyone involved, so you'd really need a good reason to rock that boat

2. The NCAA basically doesn't exist anymore as a barrier to the professionalization of football. Paying players is legal, any major enforcement case would lose in court, they don't have any input or control over the TV situation. They're just sort of a convenient fig leaf.

On the contrary, major college football exiting the NCAA is what SHOULD have happened 20-25 years ago when it was obvious to everyone that amateurism was nonviable and would have allowed for collective governance and, critically, collective TV bargaining that would have stopped all of this from happening.

The big four American pro leagues succeed financially because they're a (legal, somehow) anticompetitive cartel. College football is tearing itself apart because it's not.
Click to expand...
Do you think the NCAA tournament would last if the BIg Ten SEC and Big 12 all pulled out of it. If you look at how the NCAA negotiated the tv rights CBS ripped them off. I think there is a ton of money that the super conferences could negotiate. If someone wanted to end the NCAA for D-1 profit sports it wouldn’t take much.

Also I think bowls are on the verge of being obsolete if the top players continue to opt out. You are watching an early spring practice in some of the games
 
#674      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Navy_illini said:
Do you think the NCAA tournament would last if the BIg Ten SEC and Big 12 all pulled out of it.
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Of course not, but unlike football if all the big schools just broke away and did their own thing, the tournament would be dramatically less popular. Cinderella sells in basketball in a way it does not in football.

The big conferences will absolutely exit the NCAA if it's needed to keep the juice flowing, I just don't really see why it would be. The NCAA collects $0 in football TV revenue and no longer governs the financial relationship between players and the sport.
 
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