This shouldn't be news to anyone yet it seems like it is.
Conference Realignment
- Status
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
It has been with my life-long life experience's that beavers are so unpredictable ..............They really really are.........................
Pru, don’t ever stop being you. Really really don’t.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
From 1950 when Michigan State joined the Big Ten until 2011 when Nebraska joined, Illinois won the Big Ten 6 times. All things considered, that isn't terrible, and about average for a mostly 10 team league over 60 years. Those conference championships were even somewhat equally spaced every 10 years or so. It's hard enough to beat Michigan and Ohio St in a given year, but now you need to add USC and Penn State to the power schools that you'd need to beat out. It's not inconceivable with this super-conference path that Illinois could go 30-40 years, full generations, without winning the conference. I don't think that's a good thing at all for us or for a good chunk of other teams.
I'd expect in a future P2 world, that Illinois and teams of this caliber would be able to out-recruit schools left out like Iowa St, K State, Pitt, or Louisville. That might result in better overall teams for Illinois, but does it matter if the schedule and competition is a murderers row?
I'd expect in a future P2 world, that Illinois and teams of this caliber would be able to out-recruit schools left out like Iowa St, K State, Pitt, or Louisville. That might result in better overall teams for Illinois, but does it matter if the schedule and competition is a murderers row?
T
To Grittys' point, you're still in the conference mindset . . . conferences as we knew them are ded . . . D E D - ded.
"Look at the dysfunctional industry they’ve built around one of the best on-field products in the world. Look at their determination to ruin what so many people enjoyed for so long."Lots to unpack with this opinion piece. @ChiefGritty - this spot on?
Failed leaders and pathetic backstabbers are ruining college sports
College athletics is in existential crises, going from a small business to a bloated, self-indulgent industry. All that matters is feeding the beast.www.usatoday.com
The old model relied on taking advantage of kids. Forcing them to be pros, but pretending they were students. Injured? no workers comp for you. And we take away your salary. And if someone gives you a donut for free, you are suspended.
College football was built on a lie -- that the kids were amateurs. It was built on the backs of unpaid kids who maybe had a small chance of using their degree, but we know that tens of thousands were used.
Our old traditions were built on an unethical tradition. I for one am thrilled it is dying.
"the best on-field products in the world?" Bullcrap. Nothing that used people the way colleges did is the "best" at anything (though perhaps they were the best at "using" people).
New traditions will be created. New rivalries made. Kids have more ownership of themselves. I say bring it on! I can't wait to see Illinois v. Oregon. Or Purdue v. USC. Or UCLA v. Penn State. Or Indiana (no, just kidding, I don't want to ever see them).
This. I thought I had heard this before, so correct me if I am wrong. But, doesn’t the AAU membership, research institution, endowment generating, shared resources for research, etc, dwarf the TV deals?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
In a word, no.
Athletics and research have zero to do with each other, full stop.
I know they are separate. Maybe I worded that wrong.
From an AD standpoint, TV deals and $/school guarantees is king.
But from a University President standpoint, the AAU membership and all the other things I talked about are far more valuable, are they not?
The richest schools in the country are in the Ivy Leagues. They do not have media rights and all the other athletic stuff.
From an AD standpoint, TV deals and $/school guarantees is king.
But from a University President standpoint, the AAU membership and all the other things I talked about are far more valuable, are they not?
The richest schools in the country are in the Ivy Leagues. They do not have media rights and all the other athletic stuff.
Those numbers are in Billions.
I read another article here:
thecollegepost.com
That gives a synopsis and you keep hearing research, scholarship funds, partnerships, with other AAU schools, etc.
I read another article here:
These Are the Top 25 Richest Colleges in the US
Looking for the 25 richest universities in the US? These colleges have more resources to cater to student requirements — see the full list!
thecollegepost.com
That gives a synopsis and you keep hearing research, scholarship funds, partnerships, with other AAU schools, etc.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Oh absolutely, the scale of the University is much larger than the athletic department. Especially in the Big Ten, we may not be Ten anymore but these are big schools, even Northwestern by private standards. Huge, complicated operations on physically vast campuses.
Though, one important distinction to make, the University's endowment, given to it by donors, who are wooed by University presidents (and professionalized alumni relations and development staff, the people who call you from UIUC asking you for money) is a separate pile of money from research expenditures, which come from grants applied for by individual faculty members (who are really best thought of as independent contractors from a research perspective, it's the teaching part that's more employee-like), largely from the federal government but from many other philanthropic and corporate sources as well.
Universities draw from their endowments for general operational funding (to the extent the conditions around donations allow them to), but the money that funds the actual research at a University comes almost entirely from third parties, the lion's share being the federal government.
That ties into the AAU. The AAU is a lobbying organization. It's a group of the Universities who bring in the most research dollars from the big federal grantmaking agencies (NIH, NSF, etc) who have this organization that allows them to speak with a common voice on Capitol Hill and maintain a dialogue on issues effecting academic research (believe me, the tiniest little policy change for NIH grants requires all kinds of study and work and discussion at the big research institutions).
I worked in research administration at the University of Chicago for the better part of a decade. As opposed to all the stuff I pretend to know, this is stuff I actually know
The moral of the story is, academic elitism is a thing. Everybody likes a narrative of how our school is so great and everyone we work with is so great, and the Big Ten in particular has always loved marketing itself as this Public Ivy ideal. But when it comes to the actual work of research and acquiring research dollars, conference membership has zero to do with it whatsoever.
Oh absolutely, the scale of the University is much larger than the athletic department. Especially in the Big Ten, we may not be Ten anymore but these are big schools, even Northwestern by private standards. Huge, complicated operations on physically vast campuses.
Though, one important distinction to make, the University's endowment, given to it by donors, who are wooed by University presidents (and professionalized alumni relations and development staff, the people who call you from UIUC asking you for money) is a separate pile of money from research expenditures, which come from grants applied for by individual faculty members (who are really best thought of as independent contractors from a research perspective, it's the teaching part that's more employee-like), largely from the federal government but from many other philanthropic and corporate sources as well.
Universities draw from their endowments for general operational funding (to the extent the conditions around donations allow them to), but the money that funds the actual research at a University comes almost entirely from third parties, the lion's share being the federal government.
That ties into the AAU. The AAU is a lobbying organization. It's a group of the Universities who bring in the most research dollars from the big federal grantmaking agencies (NIH, NSF, etc) who have this organization that allows them to speak with a common voice on Capitol Hill and maintain a dialogue on issues effecting academic research (believe me, the tiniest little policy change for NIH grants requires all kinds of study and work and discussion at the big research institutions).
I worked in research administration at the University of Chicago for the better part of a decade. As opposed to all the stuff I pretend to know, this is stuff I actually know
The moral of the story is, academic elitism is a thing. Everybody likes a narrative of how our school is so great and everyone we work with is so great, and the Big Ten in particular has always loved marketing itself as this Public Ivy ideal. But when it comes to the actual work of research and acquiring research dollars, conference membership has zero to do with it whatsoever.
Right, I get that the conference affiliation for sports does not inherently tie it to the endowments and research money.Oh absolutely, the scale of the University is much larger than the athletic department. Especially in the Big Ten, we may not be Ten anymore but these are big schools, even Northwestern by private standards. Huge, complicated operations on physically vast campuses.
Though, one important distinction to make, the University's endowment, given to it by donors, who are wooed by University presidents (and professionalized alumni relations and development staff, the people who call you from UIUC asking you for money) is a separate pile of money from research expenditures, which come from grants applied for by individual faculty members (who are really best thought of as independent contractors from a research perspective, it's the teaching part that's more employee-like), largely from the federal government but from many other philanthropic and corporate sources as well.
Universities draw from their endowments for general operational funding (to the extent the conditions around donations allow them to), but the money that funds the actual research at a University comes almost entirely from third parties, the lion's share being the federal government.
That ties into the AAU. The AAU is a lobbying organization. It's a group of the Universities who bring in the most research dollars from the big federal grantmaking agencies (NIH, NSF, etc) who have this organization that allows them to speak with a common voice on Capitol Hill and maintain a dialogue on issues effecting academic research (believe me, the tiniest little policy change for NIH grants requires all kinds of study and work and discussion at the big research institutions).
I worked in research administration at the University of Chicago for the better part of a decade. As opposed to all the stuff I pretend to know, this is stuff I actually know
The moral of the story is, academic elitism is a thing. Everybody likes a narrative of how our school is so great and everyone we work with is so great, and the Big Ten in particular has always loved marketing itself as this Public Ivy ideal. But when it comes to the actual work of research and acquiring research dollars, conference membership has zero to do with it whatsoever.
However, by adding a Stanford to your conference, does that not lift up all the other research institutions from the standpoint of partnerships, some grant consolidation between institutions, sharing of “roaming” faculty, etc.
Surely those partnerships amongst the conference schools has to be a boon for the whole conference.
This is why Notre Dame is the absolute cherry on the sundae. Great AAU rep and phenomenal athletics.
So when are we gonna change the conference name?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
No.
I guess, put it this way. For sports conference membership to break down barriers between different Universities, barriers would have to exist in the first place. They don't.
As I said above, University faculty members are essentially independent contractors as researchers. They seek their own grant funding for their research, often hire their own staff, collaborate with whoever, wherever might share their research interest (whether that's the local football rival or, like, Slovenia), and change schools all the time, taking their research with them.
This is kinda what "academic freedom" means, in practice. The University provides the infrastructure (though even that is sometimes grant funded), and the faculty use it to do whatever the heck they want. But they do (in most cases) have to teach, that's another story.
change it to the Big Pac
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
they were pretty clear 30 years ago when PSU joined that the Big Ten name was not changing
If there's not then the entire AAU and also the B1G academic alliance is a farce.
IlliniSaluki
- IL metro east burbs of St. Louis
Never. It's called Branding and the B1G, Big Ten is a house hold brand name. Even non college sports fans and non sports fans alike know the name Big Ten.
Last edited:
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I mean, people in various administrative functions meet annually or whatever and talk about stuff. It's nice to talk to folks dealing with the same issues at peer institutions.
I once went to a CIC thing on export control compliance in Madison back when I didn't know the first thing about that topic and it was very helpful and I met people I could bounce questions off of and all that. But I was an administrator, the academic conferences (different use of the word) that professors present papers at and whatnot are a whole other thing.
The AAU is super important though. It isn't the only conduit between academia and Washington but it's an important one, and the conversations among its membership are right on the pulse of what's happening in the industry,
It just has zero to do with sports or what athletic conference you're in.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Will ESPN just not have them at any price? What the heck else are they showing at 10PM? I love those games!
Kramerica Industries
- Greenville, SC
- Status