Florida State 72, Illinois 61 POSTGAME

#151      

FinalFour88

FinalFour88
Charlotte, NC
FinalFour88
I'm sure you all have noticed, but Groce rarely talks about wins and losses. He prefers to talk about "the controllables" -- things like effort, rebounding, togetherness, etc. I think it's time to stop focusing on the little details. The goal is to win the game. If you win the game, success. If you lose, failure. Pretty simple.
 
#153      

rcataldo

R
rcataldo
Give it to Greene said:
It seems to me that JG doesn't even seem to be unhappy that we've lost 3 in a row... In the News Gadget video after the WVU loss, it seemed the same way.... He just doesn't seem to be bothered that he can't get them to respond... Just listen to his 'tone of voice' and view his body language. Strange....:confused:
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I'm sure Groce doesn't enjoy losing. He is a "positive guy" which is good in measured stretches and in the right situation. But he has no bark and no bite. Guys like Izzo and Bo Ryan get/got the most from their teams because they know when to apply the pressure to their players. I didn't think we got the next Izzo when we got Groce, but even WEBER had more edge to him (not an endorsement for Bruce). His post game sounds tired and repetitive. I get his job isn't to pander to the fans, but what is clear is whatever he is/has been doing IS NOT working.
 
#154      

Give it to Greene

G
Give it to Greene
FinalFour88 said:
Through his positiveness, he's inadvertently created a culture of accepting losing. When we lose, the message is "I'm proud of the guys." So for the players, losing isn't such a negative thing as it would be if the coach was more negative.
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There's a fine line that I believe exists... You don't want to be a BAM and constantly throw the players under the bus. The coach has to accept some responsibility also. OTH you can't act like you're 'satisfied' or 'proud' of the results when losing...
 
#155      

Ulysses Everett McGill

Ulysses Everett McGill
Ulysses Everett McGill
Give it to Greene said:
Wasn't Audie Mathews a Clean Gene Bartow recruit ? I can't remember....
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Yeah, good catch. Bartow landed him in 1974, the only year GB was at Illinois. I remember playing in quite a few pickup games at IMPE with Mathews, Cobb, and Rich Adams (fortunately for me most all were halfcourt games), and I kind of lump them all together in what's left of my brain. Adams and Cobb went at it pretty good, and Mathews was as smooth as silk. A few times Dave Downey, by then we'll into his 30s, came to play, and in those cases Downey was usually the best player on the court.
 
#156      

RickBB

R
RickBB
Second and Chalmers said:
Let's not fall all over ourselves with TJL expectations after one game against meaningful competition. Longtime readers will recall this board falling all over themselves about a true freshman Jaylon Tate at about this point of the year.
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I'll be honest, I've never thought Tate was a high major ball handler. And I personally can't remember ever thinking he was going to be anything more than a 10 minute a game back up...or at least shouldn't be. That's not his fault...I'm assuming he brings some other stuff to the table as far as the team dynamic and if you had a Big 10 team saying here's a scholarship or you can go to some mid-major, you probably take the Big 10 ride. But throughout his career, a little bit of pressure, and his ball handling is exposed. Unfortunately, TA is no better....and he certainly panicked 2 straight possessions with a T-Rex bounce pass that got stolen and a cross court jump pass that was picked off as well. Those two possessions pretty much sealed it for us.

Unfortunately, our PGs with with yo-yo handles are few and far between. D-Will, HRF, Demitri....Tejon at least has handles like those guys and seems to understand getting guys the ball in the right spots. As long as he's 100%, he should be our primary ball handler...sorry if that means TA gets less minutes than him or less minutes in general.
 
#157      

Ulysses Everett McGill

Ulysses Everett McGill
Ulysses Everett McGill
Second and Chalmers said:
Let's not fall all over ourselves with TJL expectations after one game against meaningful competition. Longtime readers will recall this board falling all over themselves about a true freshman Jaylon Tate at about this point of the year.

I did think he played well though. He's got a little change of speeds hesitation move to his game which is a nice weapon to have, especially as a little guy. A natural feel for keeping defenders off balance will serve him well.
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Not sure I saw many posts claiming great expectations or savior status for Lucas. The point generally was he appears clearly better than Tate right now on offense and no worse defensively. IOW, more talented at the critical PG position, and so more deserving of taking significant minutes from JT. No doubt he'll have his struggles at various points. Agree with your comments on his game.
 
#158      

JoseyWales83

JoseyWales83
JoseyWales83
I just don't know what to think anymore about Illinois basketball, its almost trending into Bears apathetic territory for me. The team has had no backbone under Groce especially on defense. I just hate that I can't get excited about Illini basketball, I hope he can turn the season around but I just don't see it. Are these bad losses come tourney time no not really but its the way that we are losing, if we make the nonconf with a 9-4 record I will be surprised. I feel sorry for Hill and Abrams not really experiencing any success with all the time and effort they put in. I really hope things change but hope barley has a flicker right now.
 
#159      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
Illinijose said:
TJL has some skills that are not just a flash in the pan. He has a nice floater in the lane, a nice 3 point shot, and dribbles/passes well.
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I understand the tempered expectations but the kid's displayed some
nice intangibles so far. He's looked pretty fearless out there.
 
#160      

CoalCity

C
St Paul, MN
CoalCity
Ulysses Everett McGill said:
Yeah, good catch. Bartow landed him in 1974, the only year GB was at Illinois. I remember playing in quite a few pickup games at IMPE with Mathews, Cobb, and Rich Adams (fortunately for me most all were halfcourt games), and I kind of lump them all together in what's left of my brain. Adams and Cobb went at it pretty good, and Mathews was as smooth as silk. A few times Dave Downey, by then we'll into his 30s, came to play, and in those cases Downey was usually the best player on the court.
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You and I must have crossed paths at IMPE a few times. The challenge court with those guys was something else. Cobb was so strong and he and Adams sure did bang on each other pretty good.
 
#161      

Tribe88

T
Tribe88
Got to play the freshman

New to forum! TJL might not be a supreme athlete but in the small sample size he has shown that he is competent. A lot of pgs out there that we missed on or didn't show interest in that turned out to be great. Van Vleet is one example. IMO I would like to see actual basketball players recruited instead of great athletes. Tejon passes the eye test already where you are left with some hope. I can't remember the last time I felt way. Sadly, TA and especially JT have never possessed legit pg capabilities.
 
#162      

IllinoisBall

I
IllinoisBall
I often root for JT and hope he'd play well, but right now, experienced or not, TJL is playing better than JT. If JG doesn't see that, that's a problem. I would like to see TJL, TA, MH, LB, MM to start and MF, MT, JCL, DJW, AJ, and JT to come off the bench.
 
#163      

Bear8287

B
Bear8287
Ulysses Everett McGill said:
Not sure I saw many posts claiming great expectations or savior status for Lucas. The point generally was he appears clearly better than Tate right now on offense and no worse defensively. IOW, more talented at the critical PG position, and so more deserving of taking significant minutes from JT. No doubt he'll have his struggles at various points. Agree with your comments on his game.
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I was at the game against FSU on Friday. It was good to see the team live.

TJL struck me as the only true PG on the Illini who could bring the ball up court and run an offense.

I dragged my spouse to the game. With about 11.5 minutes left, I said that I thought that the team that wanted the game more would win.

At 10:14 with the scored tied 44-44, Groce pulled TJL off of the floor, I said, "this is going to be interesting and likely an important point in the game." 1 minute and 19 seconds later, Groce calls a timeout after two Abrams turnovers, one of which cost Malcolm his 4th PF and the score was 51-44 FSU.

Groce left TJL in until 06:15 and pulled him out with the score at 58-50 (after FSU had just hit a 3 pointer) and put Tate and Abrams back into the game. By the time Groce put TJL back in at the 01:46 mark, the score was effectively 67-53.

In the last 10:14 of the game, while TJL was off the floor the Illini were -13 points against FSU and ended up losing by 12...

This isn't rocket science. If fans can see this, why can't the head coach?

To see all of the play-by-play you can check here: http://www.fightingillini.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=12369#play-by-play
 
#166      

MrOizo

MrOizo
Chicago
MrOizo
Bear8287 said:
I was at the game against FSU on Friday. It was good to see the team live.

TJL struck me as the only true PG on the Illini who could bring the ball up court and run an offense.

I dragged my spouse to the game. With about 11.5 minutes left, I said that I thought that the team that wanted the game more would win.

At 10:14 with the scored tied 44-44, Groce pulled TJL off of the floor, I said, "this is going to be interesting and likely an important point in the game." 1 minute and 19 seconds later, Groce calls a timeout after two Abrams turnovers, one of which cost Malcolm his 4th PF and the score was 51-44 FSU.

Groce left TJL in until 06:15 and pulled him out with the score at 58-50 (after FSU had just hit a 3 pointer) and put Tate and Abrams back into the game. By the time Groce put TJL back in at the 01:46 mark, the score was effectively 67-53.

In the last 10:14 of the game, while TJL was off the floor the Illini were -13 points against FSU and ended up losing by 12...

This isn't rocket science. If fans can see this, why can't the head coach?

To see all of the play-by-play you can check here: http://www.fightingillini.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=12369#play-by-play
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What a post! Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 
#167      

IlliniMed

I
Lillington, N.C.
IlliniMed
MrOizo said:
What a post! Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
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Because he has some weird fascination with numbers and "monitoring" players. Its not that difficult... if a player is doing well, keep him in the game. If not? Gee, change things up.
 
#168      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
Tribe88 said:
New to forum! TJL might not be a supreme athlete but in the small sample size he has shown that he is competent. A lot of pgs out there that we missed on or didn't show interest in that turned out to be great. Van Vleet is one example. IMO I would like to see actual basketball players recruited instead of great athletes. Tejon passes the eye test already where you are left with some hope. I can't remember the last time I felt way. Sadly, TA and especially JT have never possessed legit pg capabilities.
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We actually have some pretty good basketball players as you say. Enough guys who are skilled for sure. The problem is we don't have enough athletes to guard anyone or match up with more athletic teams. The lack of athleticism is also why none of our fairly skilled guys like Malcolm, JCL or Finke can create their own shot.
 
#169      

JoeJ

J
JoeJ
JoseyWales83 said:
I just don't know what to think anymore about Illinois basketball, its almost trending into Bears apathetic territory for me. The team has had no backbone under Groce especially on defense. I just hate that I can't get excited about Illini basketball, I hope he can turn the season around but I just don't see it. Are these bad losses come tourney time no not really but its the way that we are losing, if we make the nonconf with a 9-4 record I will be surprised. I feel sorry for Hill and Abrams not really experiencing any success with all the time and effort they put in. I really hope things change but hope barley has a flicker right now.
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Not quite to Bears apathetic territory, but certainly early enthusiasm has severely waned. Afraid that basketball season will end shortly after football mercifully ends today. It seems apparent that Groce does not have the answer. Heard that Pomeroy has us predicted for 14-17. I would check but my apathy is saving me the $20 to subscribe.

I guess there is a possibility that things will improve,but as someone recently posted average players with lots of experience are still average. And other than being a decent recruiter and good at public relations, JG is not cutting it. I fear the season is over before the BIG even starts. 4-5 start seems a real possibility. Not sure that we have someone who can interim on the staff, so I doubt anything happens midseason. At this point any fear of losing recruits is collateral damage.

If Groce can't make the tourney with a senior laden squad that he has had the time to develop, he needs to be replaced. If Whitman can pull out Lovie there must be a hoops guy we can get.

Great to see TJL looking good, but we need to win some damn games.:(

GO ILLINI!:illinois::chief::illinois:
 
#170      

MrOizo

MrOizo
Chicago
MrOizo
IlliniMed said:
Because he has some weird fascination with numbers and "monitoring" players. Its not that difficult... if a player is doing well, keep him in the game. If not? Gee, change things up.
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I'm easy to please.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 
#171      

JoeJ

J
JoeJ
I see VCU is #35 and NC St is #48 on Pomeroy. We are at 90 and approaching Winthrop territory at 104.
 
#172      

Ulysses Everett McGill

Ulysses Everett McGill
Ulysses Everett McGill
CoalCity said:
You and I must have crossed paths at IMPE a few times. The challenge court with those guys was something else. Cobb was so strong and he and Adams sure did bang on each other pretty good.
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I'm sure we did. I spent 4-5 afternoons a week at that court in those days, skipping way too many of my law classes convening next door. Congrats for surviving college in the 70s!
 
#173      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
So if we lose to Northwestern today, will that make for the worst 8 days in the history of major Illinois mens's sports with 5 straight losses?
 
#174      

geneseo

G
geneseo
Speaking of the Bears, the 70s, and IMPE basketball... I was in Champaign 1971-75 and played one game against Revie Sorey and friends. No, we didn't win. he dunked the ball on me about six times. Iirc, the game was make-it, take-it to 21. One point per basket.
 
#175      

Ulysses Everett McGill

Ulysses Everett McGill
Ulysses Everett McGill
geneseo said:
Speaking of the Bears, the 70s, and IMPE basketball... I was in Champaign 1971-75 and played one game against Revie Sorey and friends. No, we didn't win. he dunked the ball on me about six times. Iirc, the game was make-it, take-it to 21. One point per basket.
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Played and guarded against Revie several times myself. Amazing how that body could dunk, flat-footed. Very nice and funny guy, but no regard for rules of the game. Camped under the basket and never moved. Subtle suggestions that he might want to move out if the lane at least once every five minutes fell on deaf ears. We all just joked about it. Took about a minute to go around him to try and front him after he backed you under the hoop, then he just nudged you out of the way again like he was brushing away a fly. Sad to read and hear about his major health issues and recent loss within his family.