Football Coaching Staff / Coaching Carousel Thread

[Deleted member 654622]

So year #4 adjustments: Lovie will adjust how he teaches the scheme and possibly how they hide what they are doing. This hasn't been accomplished successfully in years 1-3, but I guess we can place our trust in the new defensive coaches to actually, um, coach.

You said the defense will improve when the offense improves and as the players mature. But the offense has improved over last year, yet the defense is worse. That seems to counter your argument.

It's hard to swallow the argument that it's the players when a 4-5 FCS team can play Alabama closer than the Illini can play Iowa.

So you think Lovie, in years 1-3 did not do anything to counteract what he saw on the field? You think he had the manpower on those rosters to get better results? If so then you think he is just here collecting a paycheck. Because that is what this post is insinuating. That or Lovie is incapable of coaching.

The offense has improved over last year. But not to a point where it is even average team. We could run the ball on most teams, which is great. It did not translate to sustained drives nor points on the board. When we played a grown defensive line, our young O lineman got man handled. When we had to throw the ball, we couldn't get anyone to catch the damn thing. Is that coaching? The offense has a lot of growing to do. So yes they do need to get much better. I don't care what the overall numbers are for the season, this offense was terrible vs. Maryland, Wisconsin, Purdue, Nebraska and Iowa. And they got blown out those games.

Really, Alabama. Well someone call Florida State and tell them they should kill their football program. Because they got blown out by Clemson. If the Citadel can play Alabama's 3rd and 4th string players close, than Florida State should be able to play Clemson close. They should eliminate their football program....said no one.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Yeah I was just trying to think of a scenario where I could see him staying even if we don’t make a bowl. In all honesty, if Lovie is back next year, my for sure keep number is 8 wins. 6 or 7 will depend on how the rest of the games look and any injuries/weird circumstances. You don’t completely tear down a program for 3 seasons to hopefully sneak into a bowl game in year 4. If you’re tearing it down this substantially, you better have a huge turn around or a legitimate reason for underachieving.

Here is a question for this scenario; who is quarterbacking this 8 win season? This is my normal positive self looking a things differently. If we don't get Kahlil Tate to transfer, I think the offense is going to struggle.

 

[UofI08]

Here is a question for this scenario; who is quarterbacking this 8 win season? This is my normal positive self looking a things differently. If we don't get Kahlil Tate to transfer, I think the offense is going to struggle.

Well, Lovie will have had 3 recruiting classes and 4 seasons of transfers to figure that out. I think Rivers can make a big leap with improved receiver play. Isiah Williams will be given every opportunity. I'm sure they'll look hard at grad transfers, even if Tate doesn't come.
At some point you have to put some responsibility on the head coach and his staff.

 

[UofI08]

Just to put the money thing into perspective and to address the "who would even come here" questions. Some of the top candidates are making pennies compared to what we're paying Lovie. Seth Littrell makes 1.2 mil at North Texas, Neal Brown makes 810k at Troy, and Lance Leipold makes a mere 400k at Buffalo. It would be extremely difficult to turn down a 1-2 million dollar raise. Not to mention the athletic department saving 2+ mil per year vs Lovie's contract.

 

[ILL_INI]

So you think Lovie, in years 1-3 did not do anything to counteract what he saw on the field? You think he had the manpower on those rosters to get better results? If so then you think he is just here collecting a paycheck. Because that is what this post is insinuating. That or Lovie is incapable of coaching.

The offense has improved over last year. But not to a point where it is even average team. We could run the ball on most teams, which is great. It did not translate to sustained drives nor points on the board. When we played a grown defensive line, our young O lineman got man handled. When we had to throw the ball, we couldn't get anyone to catch the damn thing. Is that coaching? The offense has a lot of growing to do. So yes they do need to get much better. I don't care what the overall numbers are for the season, this offense was terrible vs. Maryland, Wisconsin, Purdue, Nebraska and Iowa. And they got blown out those games.

Really, Alabama. Well someone call Florida State and tell them they should kill their football program. Because they got blown out by Clemson. If the Citadel can play Alabama's 3rd and 4th string players close, than Florida State should be able to play Clemson close. They should eliminate their football program....said no one.

First of all, Alabama didn't play their 3rd and 4th stringers. Tagovailoa played three quarters and former starter Hurts replaced him. Alabama is playing for the #1 seed in the CFP. They had an incentive to soundly beat an over-matched Citadel team and it was tied 10-10 at halftime. I'm just putting perspective on the worst defeat since pre-Zuppke. The Iowa defeat was more than being over-matched. It was worse than FBS vs. FCS, even really good FBS vs. not-so-good FCS. And what is the response by the highest paid state employee (with an unqualified son on the payroll)? He has no idea, but it's not the defensive system. You're happy with that?

 

[Deleted member 654622]

First of all, Alabama didn't play their 3rd and 4th stringers. Tagovailoa played three quarters and former starter Hurts replaced him. Alabama is playing for the #1 seed in the CFP. They had an incentive to soundly beat an over-matched Citadel team and it was tied 10-10 at halftime. I'm just putting perspective on the worst defeat since pre-Zuppke. The Iowa defeat was more than being over-matched. It was worse than FBS vs. FCS, even really good FBS vs. not-so-good FCS. And what is the response by the highest paid state employee (with an unqualified son on the payroll)? He has no idea, but it's not the defensive system. You're happy with that?

Alabama's preparation vs the school of the death and blond has ZERO to do with Illinois....ZERO. How many SEC teams did they blow out in the first 2 quarters? You think the Citedel is better than any of them?
Big difference between being ok with it and fully understanding it. Lovie Smith allows his coaches to coach. That offense that got beat up and actually cost us points is all Rod Smith. Lovie allows him to run it. This fantasy that the defense is the reason we are getting blown out is clouded by everyones pre judgment that Lovie is the problem. ITS THE WHOLE TEAM. And that is working itself out with recruiting and growth of current players.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Thi

Well, Lovie will have had 3 recruiting classes and 4 seasons of transfers to figure that out. I think Rivers can make a big leap with improved receiver play. Isiah Williams will be given every opportunity. I'm sure they'll look hard at grad transfers, even if Tate doesn't come.
At some point you have to put some responsibility on the head coach and his staff.

This is what I am talking about with these current post. I asked a question about who is going to QB this 8 win team and the response is shots at Lovie. Did Lovie know something was wrong with his original OC hire? Yes. And he took care of it didn't he? Can he jump in a time warp and get Rich Rod fired sooner so he can get Rod? No. Move past it. It's done. He corrected it.

 

[ChiefGritty]

More reasonable and I think probably a position some would take (including unfortunately our AD), but I'm frankly over with moral victories. I think regardless of how you get there, you gotta get to 6 wins or we gotta move on from Lovie.

Because it's an extend-or-fire situation I think it's clear that 5-7 wouldn't be enough next year, especially with the weakness of the schedule.

I'm glad people are acknowledging the possibility of us being a 6 (or even 7) win team and still being pretty bad. It would be a tricky scenario to sign Lovie to an extension under those circumstances, but with the even easier still 2020 schedule and so many juniors becoming seniors I feel like you have to do it.

 

[UofI08]

Thi

This is what I am talking about with these current post. I asked a question about who is going to QB this 8 win team and the response is shots at Lovie. Did Lovie know something was wrong with his original OC hire? Yes. And he took care of it didn't he? Can he jump in a time warp and get Rich Rod fired sooner so he can get Rod? No. Move past it. It's done. He corrected it.

Then what’s your answer to your own question? You also posted earlier about how winning 6-8 games a season shouldn’t be the goal and that Lovie can get us to a higher level than that. So he’s gonna get us to more than 6-8 wins consistently, yet he shouldn’t be responsible for finding his QB by year 4? And on his way to this fantasy of 9 wins per year, nobody’s allowed to demand he win 7+ games in year 4?

 

[UofI08]

Out of curiosity, were you this supportive of Beckman? He showed substantially more improvement and overall progress in his time as HC.

 

[TGB]

Actually there are only 2 scenarios to the defensive problems. Either the players are not good enough or smart enough to learn the system. or the coaches are not good enough to teach the system. If it's the former, try to get better and smarter players, if it's the latter, the staff needs to go.

 

[MadSeason]

Actually there are only 2 scenarios to the defensive problems. Either the players are not good enough or smart enough to learn the system. or the coaches are not good enough to teach the system. If it's the former, try to get better and smarter players, if it's the latter, the staff needs to go.

This is a wildly oversimplified view of the situation.

Whitney Mercilus had 2 sacks in his first 2 years then had 16 as a junior

Corey Liuget had more tackles in his junior year than Freshman and Sophomore combined

Duwuane Smoot had 3.5 sacks his first two years and 12 in his last two.

Nate Bussey had 73 tackles and .5 tackles for loss in three years. His last year he had 85 tackles and 8.5 for loss.

Michael Buchanan 2 sacks in two years and then 12 in last two

The list goes on and on. It isn't earth shattering news that college players generally get better with age. If the D looks the same next year and beyond then your 2 scenarios will have merit

 

[Deleted member 4333]

He’s not leaving. Especially not for a dead end DC position w/ a lame duck HC.

Lovie is 60 years old. Win or lose, he's not going to be around for the long haul. Maybe we need a head coach in waiting?

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Then what’s your answer to your own question? You also posted earlier about how winning 6-8 games a season shouldn’t be the goal and that Lovie can get us to a higher level than that. So he’s gonna get us to more than 6-8 wins consistently, yet he shouldn’t be responsible for finding his QB by year 4? And on his way to this fantasy of 9 wins per year, nobody’s allowed to demand he win 7+ games in year 4?

Unless we get Kahlil Tate to transfer here, I do not think we will win 8 games next year, even with an easier schedule. I absolutely still believe Lovie gives us our biggest ceiling. Because his first 2 seasons were not as productive as we all wanted, I have adjusted my time line. His "failures" in the first two seasons are sunk cost. They only go into the calculation as part of my evaluation of what I believe is best for the program moving forward. Rod Smith has already paid small dividends, but this QB room is going to take some time.
Sure you can demand 7 wins in year 4 all you want. But that does not mean Lovie Smith isn't the best man for the job if he doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Out of curiosity, were you this supportive of Beckman? He showed substantially more improvement and overall progress in his time as HC.

I supported Beckman at the beginning but of course had my doubts about his ability at such a daunting task. While he showed improvement in the win column, we were not going to be anything more than a Purdue or Minnesota.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Actually there are only 2 scenarios to the defensive problems. Either the players are not good enough or smart enough to learn the system. or the coaches are not good enough to teach the system. If it's the former, try to get better and smarter players, if it's the latter, the staff needs to go.

I agree with this. I believe the players are not good enough currently. And that goes for the roster, NOT JUST THE DEFENSE. I believe they will be once they mature. As MadSeason pointed out, we have plenty of examples of players showing major progress once they hit their junior year. If they don't, then yes this coaching staff needs to be replaced. We gotta see the final roster first.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I do not think we will win 8 games next year, even with an easier schedule. I absolutely still believe Lovie gives us our biggest ceiling. Because his first 2 seasons were not as productive as we all wanted, I have adjusted my time line.

I agree about Lovie's lack of longevity. I assume the current plan is that his predecessor is currently in the coaching staff. Once the "culture" has been established, they would make a smooth transition to that man ready to take over.

I'm having trouble squaring these two.

Can you explain this timeline?

 

[Deleted member 654622]

I'm having trouble squaring these two.

Can you explain this timeline?

If Lovie doesn't want to be around a program at all, I would say 3 years and he steps down. In steps Rod Smith, or whomever he brings in as DC. He could always be in the Joe P role and remain more of a figure head also.
After 3 more seasons, "the ceiling" - we have strong recruiting connections in Chicago, St. Louis, Texas, Georgia, Florida and Cally. Lovie's recruits are actually getting drafted, IW is a freeking beast in Rod Smith's O, the D line is filled with NFL talent. Now we start to become the dominate team in the B1G West.
That's my timeline

 

[UofI08]

If Lovie doesn't want to be around a program at all, I would say 3 years and he steps down. In steps Rod Smith, or whomever he brings in as DC. He could always be in the Joe P role and remain more of a figure head also.
After 3 more seasons, "the ceiling" - we have strong recruiting connections in Chicago, St. Louis, Texas, Georgia, Florida and Cally. Lovie's recruits are actually getting drafted, IW is a freeking beast in Rod Smith's O, the D line is filled with NFL talent. Now we start to become the dominate team in the B1G West.
That's my timeline

So what’s the progress and record during this timeline? You said next year is less than 7 wins, but Lovie is gonna leave in 3 seasons. So in the following 2 years you’re expecting 9-10 wins, multiple draft picks, high level recruiting, and developing Rod Smith into a coach in waiting? All this happening after 3 seasons of uncompetitive football and lower tier recruiting.

 

[Illinibatt]

This is a wildly oversimplified view of the situation.

Whitney Mercilus had 2 sacks in his first 2 years then had 16 as a junior

Corey Liuget had more tackles in his junior year than Freshman and Sophomore combined

Duwuane Smoot had 3.5 sacks his first two years and 12 in his last two.

Nate Bussey had 73 tackles and .5 tackles for loss in three years. His last year he had 85 tackles and 8.5 for loss.

Michael Buchanan 2 sacks in two years and then 12 in last two

The list goes on and on. It isn't earth shattering news that college players generally get better with age. If the D looks the same next year and beyond then your 2 scenarios will have merit

Yep. One reason the 2007 team was so good was because guys like J Leman, Norwell, Mitchell and Harrison had gotten their brains beat in for 3 straight years. All that playing time and experience created some real good seniors.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

So what’s the progress and record during this timeline? You said next year is less than 7 wins, but Lovie is gonna leave in 3 seasons. So in the following 2 years you’re expecting 9-10 wins, multiple draft picks, high level recruiting, and developing Rod Smith into a coach in waiting? All this happening after 3 seasons of uncompetitive football and lower tier recruiting.

Holy ish bro, you want me to give you a recap of every game over the next 3 years also lol? I said the CEILING not my expectations. Two totally different meanings. Next year is my breaking year as far as the eye test. Yes they need to win more games than 4 but the team needs to look more like a power 5 team all around, no blow out loses.
However, is it unrealistic to think we could have 6 wins next year with terrible QB play?
Is it unrealistic to think once the QB position matures, we take the same roster and win 2 more games?
How about a successful team of 3-4 star kids from power house states that are now seniors playing in the B1G west?
So there ya go. I guess 6, 8, 9. If we get lucky and get Tate to QB us next season, then we could get 7-8 depending on WR play. We win the lottery and Thomas transfers here and isnt an issue...we can win 8.
Draft picks in the next 3 years without looking at the roster.
Bobby Rountree (might leave early)
Nate Hobbs
Calvin Avery (leaving early)
Alex Polchesky
Marques Beason (still need that signature)
There are more guys with huge upside of course that can make it if they continue to progress. Quan Martin, MJ Rivers and V Lowe are examples

 

[IllinoisFanAtFSU]

I think we can add to the draft picks list:
Allegretti
Reggie Corbin

Maybe draft picks, likely UFA signings (seniors leaving now, no time for progression):
Chase McLaughlin
Delshawn Phillips

And draft picks if they progress list:
Ricky Smalling (three years of freshman-Ricky production would have gotten drafted, he just needs to return to form)
Tymir Oliver
Owen Carney
Isaiah Gay
Mike Epstein
Tony Adams (no progression needed, just needs to be healthy)
Syndey Brown

This roster has some talent. Definitely need some more, but there are a lot of pieces.

 

[John Freim]

I think we can add to the draft picks list:
Allegretti
Reggie Corbin

Maybe draft picks, likely UFA signings (seniors leaving now, no time for progression):
Chase McLaughlin
Delshawn Phillips

And draft picks if they progress list:
Ricky Smalling (three years of freshman-Ricky production would have gotten drafted, he just needs to return to form)
Tymir Oliver
Owen Carney
Isaiah Gay
Mike Epstein
Tony Adams (no progression needed, just needs to be healthy)
Syndey Brown

This roster has some talent. Definitely need some more, but there are a lot of pieces.

Kendrick Green

 

[MadSeason]

Kendrick Green

100% agree here. It think Green has 1st round ability without question. He's had a great first year.

 

[Pekinfan]

Problem is that personnel issues are the responsibility of the head coach. He decided early on he wanted his unproven, small, inexperienced freshman to play instead of the inherited players. That's on him. When you decide to play an out of shape freshman at left tackle instead of a guy that has since made an NFL roster, that's on you. When you decide to go completely young on the defense, that's on you. There's upperclassmen, proven starters at SMU, Miami, and Maryland that were deemed not good enough here. That's an upperclassmen at each level of the defense that was forced out of the program. Lovie has had 2 full classes, and a number of inherited players, to fill in the glaring holes in his roster. He hasn't done that yet.

Also, if you choose to go young, you better develop the young talent. If anything, this season has shown a step backward since last year for the majority of the team. Even if you go young, there is no excuse for the product on the field. We have lost our B1G games by an average of over 40 points. Beyond noncompetitive.

One of the most spot on posts in weeks. Most of these issues were/are caused by decisions made by the head coach. He also chose all of his assistant coaches may have proved to not be up to the job.
I think Lovie needs to go now but doubt he will.