Former Illini in College Hoops

grue2 · Oct 24, 2023

SKane said:
Mark Smith has played in Germany and is now in Spain.

Mark Smith (basketball) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Spanish team, despite barely avoiding relegation last year should be a significant step up. It is the best National League in the EU.

The top leagues outside the NBA are something like:
1) Euroleague (A cross cutting of the top teams from the national leagues.),
2) Spain ACB, Turkey BSL,
3) German BBL, Italy LBA, Israel, France LBA,
4) Adriatic, Greek, Chinese
Each line is a significant step up from the lines below it. A rough ordering is given within a line.

Hopefully this helps people get a feel for how our grads do post graduation. (Most tier 4 teams are really bad.)

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Oct 24, 2023

Dr Copejam said:
Bloomington

Not to be that guy but technically it's in Normal.

Grandpa · Oct 24, 2023

Tacomallini said:
His team, Zaragoza, plays Club Joventut Badalona on Saturday. Andres Feliz plays for Joventut.

I'll be rooting for Joventut. Big fan!!!!!!!

tcb13 · Oct 24, 2023

IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Not to be that guy but technically it's in Normal.

Bloomington is just about as close to Normal as you can get

illiniguy · Oct 24, 2023

grue2 said:
The Spanish team, despite barely avoiding relegation last year should be a significant step up. It is the best National League in the EU.

The top leagues outside the NBA are something like:
1) Euroleague (A cross cutting of the top teams from the national leagues.),
2) Spain ACB, Turkey BSL,
3) German BBL, Italy LBA, Israel, France LBA,
4) Adriatic, Greek, Chinese
Each line is a significant step up from the lines below it. A rough ordering is given within a line.

Hopefully this helps people get a feel for how our grads do post graduation. (Most tier 4 teams are really bad.)

You left off Russia, Japan and Korea.

Oldskoolkoach · Oct 24, 2023

Skyy clark (exhibition) - 2-10 (1-6 3pt), 3-4 FT, 1 reb, 3 PF, 6 Asst, 3 to, 8 points

Jaydon Epps 1st exhibition is 11/7

RJ 1st exhibition is 10/30

Curbelo played 1st exhibition tonight, they won by 35, but can't find a box score

Miller -ineligible as of right now

Throw a couple bigs in with that group and could be pretty salty

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Oct 24, 2023

tcb13 said:
Bloomington is just about as close to Normal as you can get

I don't know. It seems pretty abNormal to me.

BretMyBeachHouse · Oct 24, 2023

grue2 · Oct 24, 2023

"Illiniguy: You left off Russia, Japan and Korea."

Adding missing leagues for quality, and salary info. Hopefully this helps people get a feel for how our grads do post graduation. (Most tier 4 teams are really bad.)

2022 data

Play quality:
The top leagues outside the NBA are something like:
1) Euroleague (A cross cutting of the top teams from the national leagues.),
2) Spain ACB, Turkey BSL
3) [German BBL, Russia VTB], Italy LBA, Israel, France LBA
4) Adriatic, Greek, Australia
5+) China, Japan, Korea, Philippines (Alphabetical; all bad.)

Each line is a significant step up from the lines below it. A rough ordering is given within a line.

Salary guides (compiled from multiple sources, using the most common estimates when sites disagree):

Tier 1:
China: $7M is the top, 1-3M typical for foreigners, 100k typical if Chinese. Note: Max 1 foreign player on court at any time.

Tier 2:
EuroLeague: $4M top. 2M is a top 10 salary (top 6?). 500-800k is typical.

Tier 3:
Turkey BSL: 2.6M top, 250-450k typical
Russia VTB: 2.5M top, 200-450k typical
Spain ACB: 2M top. 250-500k typical.
Italy LBA: 2M top, 150-350k typical

Tier 4:
Greece: 2.5M top, 60-250k typical (60-100k tend to be local players)
German BBL: 1M top, 100-350k typical
Japan B.League: 1M top, 100-250k typical
Israel: ?? Top, 80-250k typical

Tier 5:
Philippines: 400k top, 100-200k typical
Australia: 400k top, 100k typical (1.7M/team cap)
France LBA: 300k top, 80-200k typical [I'm very surprised at these numbers. Multiple sites agreed.]

I could not find numbers for Korea, or Adriatic (ABA). I thought the ABA paid in the mid tier 3 range.

@Dan As often as these questions get ask, can this be put into an appropriate semi-permanent thread? It was a pain to compile this data.

alaskaillini · Oct 24, 2023

IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
I don't know. It seems pretty abNormal to me.

Remember a Johnny Carson episode where he read newspaper headlines. One was "Normal Woman Marries Oblong Man."

RabidDawgClassic · Oct 25, 2023

Oldskoolkoach said:
Skyy clark (exhibition) - 2-10 (1-6 3pt), 3-4 FT, 1 reb, 3 PF, 6 Asst, 3 to, 8 points

Jaydon Epps 1st exhibition is 11/7

RJ 1st exhibition is 10/30

Curbelo played 1st exhibition tonight, they won by 35, but can't find a box score

Miller -ineligible as of right now

Throw a couple bigs in with that group and could be pretty salty

Doesn’t look like Curbelo played. Probably due to still waiting on the waiver.

Dan · Oct 25, 2023

grue2 said:
@Dan As often as these questions get ask, can this be put into an appropriate semi-permanent thread? It was a pain to compile this data.

Thanks for putting this info together. Feel free to repost in this thread and/or the NBA/Pro/International Basketball thread from time-to-time when the topic comes up again.

splitter · Oct 25, 2023

tcb13 said:
Bloomington is just about as close to Normal as you can get

Normally I would agree, but isn't Champain and Urbana just about as close?

chiefini · Oct 25, 2023

We attended the radio show at the Esquire on Monday night where Coach Underwood was the guest. He said that Kofi is playing in South Korea, making twice what he made in Japan, and Kofi’s loving it…

SuperSmashBro · Oct 25, 2023

grue2 said:
"Illiniguy: You left off Russia, Japan and Korea."

Adding missing leagues for quality, and salary info. Hopefully this helps people get a feel for how our grads do post graduation. (Most tier 4 teams are really bad.)

2022 data

Play quality:
The top leagues outside the NBA are something like:
1) Euroleague (A cross cutting of the top teams from the national leagues.),
2) Spain ACB, Turkey BSL
3) [German BBL, Russia VTB], Italy LBA, Israel, France LBA
4) Adriatic, Greek, Australia
5+) China, Japan, Korea, Philippines (Alphabetical; all bad.)

Each line is a significant step up from the lines below it. A rough ordering is given within a line.

Salary guides (compiled from multiple sources, using the most common estimates when sites disagree):

Tier 1:
China: $7M is the top, 1-3M typical for foreigners, 100k typical if Chinese. Note: Max 1 foreign player on court at any time.

Tier 2:
EuroLeague: $4M top. 2M is a top 10 salary (top 6?). 500-800k is typical.

Tier 3:
Turkey BSL: 2.6M top, 250-450k typical
Russia VTB: 2.5M top, 200-450k typical
Spain ACB: 2M top. 250-500k typical.
Italy LBA: 2M top, 150-350k typical

Tier 4:
Greece: 2.5M top, 60-250k typical (60-100k tend to be local players)
German BBL: 1M top, 100-350k typical
Japan B.League: 1M top, 100-250k typical
Israel: ?? Top, 80-250k typical

Tier 5:
Philippines: 400k top, 100-200k typical
Australia: 400k top, 100k typical (1.7M/team cap)
France LBA: 300k top, 80-200k typical [I'm very surprised at these numbers. Multiple sites agreed.]

I could not find numbers for Korea, or Adriatic (ABA). I thought the ABA paid in the mid tier 3 range.

@Dan As often as these questions get ask, can this be put into an appropriate semi-permanent thread? It was a pain to compile this data.

This is great - thanks for putting together. Would it be too much to ask to add notable former player names next to the tiers that they currently play in?

SuperSmashBro · Oct 25, 2023

grue2 said:
"Illiniguy: You left off Russia, Japan and Korea."

Adding missing leagues for quality, and salary info. Hopefully this helps people get a feel for how our grads do post graduation. (Most tier 4 teams are really bad.)

2022 data

Play quality:
The top leagues outside the NBA are something like:
1) Euroleague (A cross cutting of the top teams from the national leagues.),
2) Spain ACB, Turkey BSL
3) [German BBL, Russia VTB], Italy LBA, Israel, France LBA
4) Adriatic, Greek, Australia
5+) China, Japan, Korea, Philippines (Alphabetical; all bad.)

Each line is a significant step up from the lines below it. A rough ordering is given within a line.

Salary guides (compiled from multiple sources, using the most common estimates when sites disagree):

Tier 1:
China: $7M is the top, 1-3M typical for foreigners, 100k typical if Chinese. Note: Max 1 foreign player on court at any time.

Tier 2:
EuroLeague: $4M top. 2M is a top 10 salary (top 6?). 500-800k is typical.

Tier 3:
Turkey BSL: 2.6M top, 250-450k typical
Russia VTB: 2.5M top, 200-450k typical
Spain ACB: 2M top. 250-500k typical.
Italy LBA: 2M top, 150-350k typical

Tier 4:
Greece: 2.5M top, 60-250k typical (60-100k tend to be local players)
German BBL: 1M top, 100-350k typical
Japan B.League: 1M top, 100-250k typical
Israel: ?? Top, 80-250k typical

Tier 5:
Philippines: 400k top, 100-200k typical
Australia: 400k top, 100k typical (1.7M/team cap)
France LBA: 300k top, 80-200k typical [I'm very surprised at these numbers. Multiple sites agreed.]

I could not find numbers for Korea, or Adriatic (ABA). I thought the ABA paid in the mid tier 3 range.

@Dan As often as these questions get ask, can this be put into an appropriate semi-permanent thread? It was a pain to compile this data.

I may be misinterpreting this but are you saying that the play quality in Chinese leagues is tier 5 yet they pay like they’re tier 1?

doowink · Oct 25, 2023

alaskaillini said:
Remember a Johnny Carson episode where he read newspaper headlines. One was "Normal Woman Marries Oblong Man."

A truck driver stops along interstate 57 to fuel up, he goes inside to pay the attendant and asks....what town is this?.....the attendant says this is Arcola....truck driver says....oh ok.....what's the next town up the road.....attendant says, well that would be Tuscola.....truck driver chuckles and says well I suppose that the next town after that then would be Pepsi Cola....attendant says....oh no.....that would be Champaign.....has nothing to do with Illini hoops, but reading your response made me think of this story....lol

tcb13 · Oct 25, 2023

doowink said:
A truck driver stops along interstate 57 to fuel up, he goes inside to pay the attendant and asks....what town is this?.....the attendant says this is Arcola....truck driver says....oh ok.....what's the next town up the road.....attendant says, well that would be Tuscola.....truck driver chuckles and says well I suppose that the next town after that then would be Pepsi Cola....attendant says....oh no.....that would be Champaign.....has nothing to do with Illini hoops, but reading your response made me think of this story....lol

Another Illinois story...Way back when, mid 80s...My wife's uncle lived in a small town on Rte 36, south of Champaign. Newman. There was a gas station there and the attendant noticed a shiny Chrysler pulled in and gassed up, the attendant looked at cars all day but didn't recognize the model of this car. When the driver came in to pay, the attendant said "That's a pretty fancy automobile! I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it." The attendant could tell the driver was pretty well off, and thought he might be somewhat of a celebrity. He continued "Do I know you from somewhere?" The driver was quite friendly, even a little bashful, as he fished in his pocked for some cash. As he extended his hand he had a very crisp $20 bill and some wooden golf tees. He said "Well, my name is Arnold Palmer. I'm a professional golfer. I do some commercials for Chrysler so they let me drive that car. I don't think you can even buy one yet." The attendant had never been golfing before, and did not recognize Mr. Palmer, but he was intrigued, for some reason, by the golf tees so he asked what they were. Mr. Palmer, surprised by the lack of recognition or even golf knowledge said "Those are tees, you put your balls on them when you drive." Amazed, the attendant replied "Wow, Lee Iococca thought of EVERYTHING!"

Actually... · Oct 27, 2023

SuperSmashBro said:
I may be misinterpreting this but are you saying that the play quality in Chinese leagues is tier 5 yet they pay like they’re tier 1?

In his breakdown it looks like the potential pay for a celebrity foreigner is high but the typical pay is in range for Tier 5

nyc_illini · Oct 27, 2023

Actually... said:
In his breakdown it looks like the potential pay for a celebrity foreigner is high but the typical pay is in range for Tier 5

Not just celebrity foreigner. Pretty much any foreign player. It’s a pretty competitive market for foreign players.

The Chinese league is the second richest basketball league after NBA by revenue, at more than $600 million. For reference, NBA is more than $10 billion, Euroleague is about $500 million.

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

grue2 · Oct 27, 2023

SuperSmashBro said:
I may be misinterpreting this but are you saying that the play quality in Chinese leagues is tier 5 yet they pay like they’re tier 1?

Pay:
- Tier 1 for foreigner -- any decent player, not just a star.
- Tier 5 if national player

Quality of play: Tier 5.

grue2 · Oct 27, 2023

nyc_illini said:
Not just celebrity foreigner. Pretty much any foreign player. It’s a pretty competitive market for foreign players.

The Chinese league is the second richest basketball league after NBA by revenue, at more than $600 million. For reference, NBA is more than $10 billion, Euroleague is about $500 million.

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In terms of earning per game, it is NBA, Euroleague, China. Chinese league teams play a TON of games. Each Chinese team is only allowed on foreign player on the court at a time, so I expect the usage numbers for those foreign players are pretty high (guess vs. data).

MDchicago · Oct 31, 2023

RJ Melendez: Lead Georgia with 21 points and had 9 rebounds in exhibition win over Eastern Kentucky. Coach Mike White on RJ, "Yeah, he's more than secretly pretty good. He's a good player. He can fill up the stat sheet, and I like the level of confidence he played with for a guy who hasn't logged those type of minutes in his college career. Good to see him take advantage, and who knows moving forward. He's got competition in his spot, but I thought he played pretty well tonight." Link

Brandon Lieb: started and had 4 points and 8 rebounds (in 18 minutes) for ISU in their exhibition win over Illinois Wesleyan. Ty Pence had 13 points and 5 rebounds in 19 minutes. Link

Kramerica Industries · Oct 31, 2023

Miles Leonard · Oct 31, 2023

Oldskoolkoach said:
Skyy clark (exhibition) - 2-10 (1-6 3pt), 3-4 FT, 1 reb, 3 PF, 6 Asst, 3 to, 8 points

Jaydon Epps 1st exhibition is 11/7

RJ 1st exhibition is 10/30

Curbelo played 1st exhibition tonight, they won by 35, but can't find a box score

Miller -ineligible as of right now

Throw a couple bigs in with that group and could be pretty salty

Epps dropped 46 in a secret scrimmage vs Wake Forest a few weeks back

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1713263220595528068

Former Illini in College Hoops

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