rmlsr
- El Paso,IL
I don't feel bad for Groce. He is the coach who has taken the program to low lows. This program will not be able to start to repair the program until he is Fire.
Groce/Whitman Press Conference
I don't feel bad for Groce. He is the coach who has taken the program to low lows. This program will not be able to start to repair the program until he is Fire.
did you mean Weber?
Good Conference IMHO
The incidents had to be addressed by the Coach and AD, like the way JW provided clarity and great understanding of the situation. Yes, this had to be a difficult moment for Groce. These are his players and his program and his boss is providing answers. These are some other key points.
1. Groce is a good man/person. I have never felt he has put himself ahead of the university or program. He doesn't bring additional attention to himself beyond what is necessary as the head of a major conference bb team. Not a big fan of his stretch 4 concept and offense. Prefer the traditional two bigs, with a true WF (Malcom Hill type), along with a combo guard (JCL type) and true PG.
2. So glad we got JW, he is sharp and has the athletic credentials. When he says he attacks difficult issues head on I believe him.
3. Sounds like Groce had a training plan in place for players, but will further enhance it to reduce the chance of these occuring. But I truly feel his support staff and asst. coaches let him down. Asst. Coaches are changed often, I feel their needs to be changes.
4. Like how JW phrased the choices and mistakes young people and young athletes make. I like that he leaves room for redemption. Once again I think Black comes back. If these young ladies have bruises resulting from actions from Nunn or Tate I can't see their return.
The incidents had to be addressed by the Coach and AD, like the way JW provided clarity and great understanding of the situation. Yes, this had to be a difficult moment for Groce. These are his players and his program and his boss is providing answers. These are some other key points.
1. Groce is a good man/person. I have never felt he has put himself ahead of the university or program. He doesn't bring additional attention to himself beyond what is necessary as the head of a major conference bb team. Not a big fan of his stretch 4 concept and offense. Prefer the traditional two bigs, with a true WF (Malcom Hill type), along with a combo guard (JCL type) and true PG.
2. So glad we got JW, he is sharp and has the athletic credentials. When he says he attacks difficult issues head on I believe him.
3. Sounds like Groce had a training plan in place for players, but will further enhance it to reduce the chance of these occuring. But I truly feel his support staff and asst. coaches let him down. Asst. Coaches are changed often, I feel their needs to be changes.
4. Like how JW phrased the choices and mistakes young people and young athletes make. I like that he leaves room for redemption. Once again I think Black comes back. If these young ladies have bruises resulting from actions from Nunn or Tate I can't see their return.
Folks stop quoting the Chicago sports radio guys, they are morons. JW and JG are two sharp men who carry themselves like professionals. The radio guys just throw mud, no true solutions.
Sleepy Floyd
Kicking it with Fat Lever
- Champaign
So you don't like spacing and options out of pick and roll? I for like having bigs with a variety of skills which I think Groce had on this roster half of them were just missing for most of year.
Illinois88
- United States
I agree. Egwu wasn't much of an offensive threat but his defense was great. If I were coaching against a team with Egwu I'd be wary of how my bigs attacked the basket as well the smaller players.
Sure it was frustrating and worrisome when I thought of Egwu on offense but I never thought he shouldn't be on the floor. Making a basket here and there is better than nothing, contributing to the offense point wise. And it wasn't like he couldn't post up - it's just his shot wasn't falling. I believe it's more of a liability to have a guard (Tate) or wing who cannot score than a big that cannot. Even when the guards/wings misses the bigs can/should rebound and help reset the offense or try for a putback. Bigs can post up and kick it out if their shot isn't falling; guards who can't make the shot makes a weaker offense.
With that said, if there's an Egwu jersey I'd buy it. I miss Egwu; he had heart and just kept trying despite his woes. He reminds me of Chester Frazier.
Last edited:
HoustonIllini
- Houston, TX
Nnanna was one of my favorite all-time Illini for the simple reason being that he gave everything he had every minute he wore the uniform. There is no doubting his heart. Not the most skilled player, he was a stopper in the middle and led by example. If Mav could emulate Nnanna's defensive efforts and skill set, we'd have an All-American on our hands!
Absolutely. Nnanna gave it his all. As people may have forgotten, so does Tracy. Tracy played with a fire and passion that no one else on the team has been playing with. Except for maybe Leron but as we know he's been out. So if Tracy can bring that back next year, that would be just another great dimension he can add to this team.
We can talk about "ifs" and other hypotheticals if we want, but this is a results-based business, and the results say that Groce's teams have been worse every year that he's been here.
At this point, I almost feel like Groce is what Cubit was going to be for this next season - a more-or-less interim coach with a chance to keep his job by making a massive turnaround both on the field and the recruiting trail.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
It may be a results-based "business," but a sound business plan allows for the time necessary to achieve results based on real-world factors. Looking only at the bottom line is the work of a hack, not a savvy businessperson.
Sure, but no matter how solid you think your plan is, if you try to ride it out with a bad bottom line for too long, you go out of business.
And you can't keep hemorrhaging customers (fans) forever in your pursuit of the plan - it's a lot harder to get them back again after you've lost them.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Sure, but no matter how solid you think your plan is, if you try to ride it out with a bad bottom line for too long, you go out of business.
And you can't keep hemorrhaging customers (fans) forever in your pursuit of the plan - it's a lot harder to get them back again after you've lost them.
Serious question (SERIOUSLY): You don't think Whitman has gamed it out?
Sure, but no matter how solid you think your plan is, if you try to ride it out with a bad bottom line for too long, you go out of business.
And you can't keep hemorrhaging customers (fans) forever in your pursuit of the plan - it's a lot harder to get them back again after you've lost them.
Lol, it is not hard to get fans back. Start winning and they'll be back in a heartbeat. This isn't a business where theyll start rooting for a rival team after a bad experience.
Real fans are never lost.
Depends for how long and at what age. Illinois basketball has been mediocre for 10+ years now and there are plenty of kids, including recruits, who don't even remember the last time Illinois was good. Some of them are quite involved in basketball, they do root for other teams, I meet quite a few of them at AAU tournaments. That is a critical segment.
And you can't ignore the fact that Illinois Athletics as a commercial product is a deeply interconnected two-sport affair. Lovie changed everything. The basketball program remains a disaster, but the overall athletics brand has been redeemed to a miraculous degree from where it was a month ago.
Because of Lovie, Whitman is dealing with credibility and an ocean of political capital from the fanbase. He can afford to do it the thorough, opportunity-maximizing, right way. We should be happy about that.
Whitman did what it took to install the brightest future possible for the football program without regard for the doubters and the niceties along the way, and he is doing the same thing in basketball.
Im going to have to spell it out to all the haters on here. I mean christ, isnt this website called ILLINOIS LOYALTY, not illinois doubters?! John Groce has proven hes a far better recruiter than Bruce Weber ever was and he will eventually lead us out of these rough years with Bruce Weber players as his leaders. Not that theyre not good just not his guys. In addition to a ridiculous amount of bad luck. Groce is a fighter though so you know he wont let it get to him.
Any body that doubts his recruiting ability is just blindly hating on Groce. We have been in contention for some huge names that we closely missed out on, guys Weber would have never sniffed, program changers. Even with the near misses, look at who hes gotten already. Jalen Coleman Lands is the best shooter in Illinois history. Leron Black was a great get also, for one being from memphis of all places, two hes a great fit for groces system at the 4 with his "all out" style of play when healthy. Michael Finke was wanted badly by Bo Ryan at Wisconsin, enough said. DJW has shown he knows how to play hard and contribute in many ways on the court even as a freshman. Aaron jordan was being called the best shooter out of illinois since Jabari Smith and definitely has a lot of confidence n his shot, which i love. Now he has Te'jon Lucas coming in, who is a year young for his class and has a ton of upside. And he's got a ton momentum going in 2017 which seems like it could be class that could change the program.
The future is bright for illinois basketball with Groce as our guy, and if you cant see the bigger picture, then open your eyes.
Any body that doubts his recruiting ability is just blindly hating on Groce. We have been in contention for some huge names that we closely missed out on, guys Weber would have never sniffed, program changers. Even with the near misses, look at who hes gotten already. Jalen Coleman Lands is the best shooter in Illinois history. Leron Black was a great get also, for one being from memphis of all places, two hes a great fit for groces system at the 4 with his "all out" style of play when healthy. Michael Finke was wanted badly by Bo Ryan at Wisconsin, enough said. DJW has shown he knows how to play hard and contribute in many ways on the court even as a freshman. Aaron jordan was being called the best shooter out of illinois since Jabari Smith and definitely has a lot of confidence n his shot, which i love. Now he has Te'jon Lucas coming in, who is a year young for his class and has a ton of upside. And he's got a ton momentum going in 2017 which seems like it could be class that could change the program.
The future is bright for illinois basketball with Groce as our guy, and if you cant see the bigger picture, then open your eyes.
Last edited:
I agree, but that fans lost after the past year or two will be back with some success even as early as next season.
illini80
- Forgottonia
I think this is true. I would add that if you create fans while they are students on campus, they will be lifelong fans. Apathy towards our sports programs is likely lifelong if they don't have a good experience while they are here. Some of those students will be in a position to be the major donors of the future.
Heck of a first post . Get the distinct feeling you been lurking out there a while. Welcome.
illini80
- Forgottonia
Unless he starts piling up some wins, you haven't seen anything yet.
Sidenote: I remain very confident that we're a Tilmon-Goodwin-DaMonte class and a 5-seed away from JFG-mania being right back on again, and I think that probably entered into JW's thinking as well. We're on the other side of the bridge at this point, but the bridge has not been burned. Whereas on the other hand, Tim Beckman could have weaseled his way to 10-2 last year and I think most people would still have been noncommittal at best.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
If Becks had won 10 games I'm pretty sure people would have been calling for a statue of him eating lasagna to be erected outside MH alongside Grange.
I approve of any and all lasagna jokes, but on the merits I really disagree. You can reach a point of no return. Beckman was there. Weber was there for a significant chunk of people. I think Crean is there. Groce is not there.
if all that happens by this time next year, the mania will be deserved