Balanced . . . I like it.
Wait, which board is this?
Like I said, I'm all over the map.
Balanced . . . I like it.
Wait, which board is this?
Thinking our program is failing because we've had more violent crime arrests than tournament appearances under Groce does not constitute an "agenda," just a basic acquaintance with facts.
He's staying, so I hope things drastically turn around, but even if they do we'll all look back on the beginning of his tenure as the worst span of Illinois basketball in any of our lifetimes.
My main problem is the Xs and Os. You see so many other teams run a disciplined, back cut, hit the open guy, movement without the ball offense and for some reason - either teaching or BB IQ we can't seem to execute. I am torn between BB IQ and coaching on that one because I see cuts to the basket that are wide open and the pass it never delivered. For the most part, I blame that on a failure to get a 4+ point guard. Its so obviously important in college to have a floor leader out there. When TA got hurt, we lost that. No one else on the team has stepped up a as leader of this team. JCL has, IMO that quality and tries to get the team in that space, but he's too young and not running the point. JCL and MF have, i think by far the highest BB IQs on the court. DJW has the killer instinct to do what is necessary to get to the ball.
So I guess we should increase presidential term limits since 7 to 8 years isn't enough to show progress or accountability. We should sign coaches to 10 year minimum contracts since they can't be held accountable after 4. Everyone is worried about getting recruits.... What good is it to have good recruits when you can't coach them to victories or even keep them out of a jail cell for that fact.This feels like the presidential races Ive seen. Everyone blames the current president for the crap they picked up and took over when the truth is the dumpster fire was burning well before the current president took office.
Yeah, you must not have been around after the slush fund or you'd realize just how dumb this is . Take it from an eye witness , I was there .
My main problem is the Xs and Os. You see so many other teams run a disciplined, back cut, hit the open guy, movement without the ball offense and for some reason - either teaching or BB IQ we can't seem to execute. I am torn between BB IQ and coaching on that one because I see cuts to the basket that are wide open and the pass it never delivered. For the most part, I blame that on a failure to get a 4+ point guard. Its so obviously important in college to have a floor leader out there. When TA got hurt, we lost that. No one else on the team has stepped up a as leader of this team. JCL has, IMO that quality and tries to get the team in that space, but he's too young and not running the point. JCL and MF have, i think by far the highest BB IQs on the court. DJW has the killer instinct to do what is necessary to get to the ball.
Are you talking about illinois being a top 15 team 5 years ago, I don't recall that. My memory has us doing a steady nose dive just after the 05 season and pretty much not seeing the top 25 after somewhere around 08. I could be wrong on that though, my wife let's me know all the time. Here's to hoping J.G. can get the ship back upright. GO ILLINI!!!!
This can't be overemphasized. W/o a competent PG, it's hard to look good offensively. The last two seasons, we've had dismal PG play, arguably the worst in the Big Ten.
Peoples anti Groce agendas are showing hard.
Probably worse. "Unquestionably a downgrade"? Feels like a little much.
This can't be overemphasized. W/o a competent PG, it's hard to look good offensively. The last two seasons, we've had dismal PG play, arguably the worst in the Big Ten.
It has become crystal clear that Groce will be coaching the Illini for the foreseeable future. Those that are butt-hurt over this need to get over it and support the man and the team. Coming in here to riddle threads with anti-Groce sentiment is counterproductive and possibly destructive. While there are certainly some long-term posters that share similar views, those with an axe to grind through a hand full of posts either need to find ways to be constructive members of this forum or get a life elsewhere. This is an Illinois fan forum and a lot of the behavior displayed by some here recently speaks to something other than being a fan.
The fact that JW gave a vote of confidence to Groce again has a lot of people in a uproar , I'm cool with Groce being the coach , see I guess I'm a lil more patient than others , there are coaches that have been at their schools that are doing a lot worse and are not calling for their coaches heads , what has FSU ,PSU,BC,VT, just to name a few I know there's more , but what have they done for their schools to retain them ? but here we are as fans calling for something we can't control and that's someone's job , just so we can have braggin rights on who we beat or what round we made it to , so I guess it's forget the fact that these coaches and players are human and go through life like we do, have ups and downs like we do, just win games guys we could care less about you or your life as long as I get to brag about y'all winning smh , let the process play out and support the team geeezus .
Oh stop it. The Pitino Boy. Rick Barnes. Ernie Kent. Johnny Jones. Weber. Jim Christian. There are a lot worse than Groce.
Sorry, guess I should have said "most"!
Either way, it's telling that the response to this statement has been "nuh-uh, I'm old enough to remember a full-on NCAA scandal!"
I forgot Brian Gregory and Kim Anderson!
Rick Barnes made the tournament 16 of 17 years at Texas. Of course you could say that's not good enough for a school like Texas, but I don't think missing 3 of 4 tournaments at Illinois is good enough either.
Weber's K-State was #52 on Kenpom in his 4th year, after half his team transferred. Only 81 spots above Groce in year 4.
Johnny Jones has at least 19 wins in each of his 4 year's at LSU, and is 8 games over .500 in conference during that time.
Not really sure what Groce has done to show he is an upgrade over these coaches.
At least the Chicago media and 670 are talking about Illinois I guess...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/03/25/the-bernstein-brief-illinois-press-conference-an-empty-show/
Am I mixing and matching definitions of "bad coach"? Guilty as charged. But we're talking about who you would trade for who, not necessarily who is the most accomplished. It's about where they're going, not where they've been.
I'll roll with Groce over any of the coaches I named, ESPECIALLY if the hypothetical switch involved giving them any more years or money.
Might be too early to tell in fairness, but lets provisionally add Danny Manning to this list too.
First of all, I think all of us have a little higher ambition for Illinois Basketball than the schools you mention. Of course, maybe with the hiring of Lovie on the football side of things we will get to a point of caring more about football then basketball like all of those schools, and have an apathy towards the basketball side.
Second, everyone on this board is on here because they are Illinois fans, who support the team, however, that doesn't mean we should blindly support a coach who's teams have got worse year after year. Most of us like Groce as a person, but that doesn't mean we think he is the right coach for Illinois. Those points aren't mutually exclusive.
The original question was who was "unquestionably a downgrade" compared to Groce. Not saying I would hire any one these coaches, but I also wouldn't hire Goce. Also Danny Manning took over a Wake Forest team that wasn't good (#118 in Kenpom the year before he was hired), and is currently sitting at 127. Groce took a team from 82 to 133. Again, how is that "unquestionably a downgrade"?
While I admire your use of objective metrics, I reject that Illinois' Kenpom ranking this season is the be-all, end-all of what John Groce is as a coach.
I don't think it's the be-all, end-all, but it does show a pretty significant negative trend over Groce's tenure. I just don't see what he has accomplished at Illinois that show's he any better than other failed P5 hires.