Definitely.
Groce/Whitman Press Conference
Definitely.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Thinking our program is failing because we've had more violent crime arrests than tournament appearances under Groce does not constitute an "agenda," just a basic acquaintance with facts.
He's staying, so I hope things drastically turn around, but even if they do we'll all look back on the beginning of his tenure as the worst span of Illinois basketball in any of our lifetimes.
I agree. We must first endure the sorrow to bathe in the riches.
I meant now as in recent years. It seems like every recruit gets out of their LOI fairly easily when there is a coaching change. I would just be cautious in them staying if there's a coaching change even if they sign a LOI. With that being said, if they do buy in to the idea of all playing on the same team, I think the idea of playing together would have more weight than playing for a new coach. I think Illinois is just giving then the best opportunity to do so, not necessarily Groce.
Ya im losing sleep over it already.
Deleted member 10676
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uh, not mine. I remember the Slush Fund and the 70s.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Probably worse. "Unquestionably a downgrade"? Feels like a little much.
I agree, although as you already know, I am big on recruiting. If the 2017 recruiting class (LOIs and all) ends up a fantastic class (will need Tilmon IMO), it would be extremely difficult to make a change regardless. But Groce will need to make internal changes, new culture, and has to avoid incidents. There has to be a change in that respect from last 3 years.
rmlsr
- El Paso,IL
Drew is a far better coach than Groce is it isn't even funny. Get back to me in a few years and we can compare Groce & Drew coaching success or in Groce's case coaching failures.
Did you watch LSU this year?
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
The LSU team that put together a better conference record than we've had since 2009?
rmlsr
- El Paso,IL
And Groce has had 4 yrs to show he's made improvements in the program but instead it has become worse than when he took over.
In the SEC and with the presumptive #1 pick dropped in their lap. I'm not saying Groce is going to get it done here, I'm not even saying Groce has done an average or adequate job. However I think it's clear there are clearly worse coaches in P5.
I'm also in the camp that doesn't understand the infatuation with Drew. His resume might be better than Groce, but it's not nearly as good as Weber and he couldn't get it done here.
Yea, in a conference that was so bad they lost there kenpom power 5 credit. They had arguably the best college player in the last 5 years who had a supporting cast worthy of the sweet 16 and they didnt even make the tournament.
I like Groce, but so far, other than his first year, he has not been a success. I do think Drew is much better with the X & O's. The freshmen Groce brought in this year show some promise. Personally, I'm glad we can put to bed, who our coach will be next year, &, if Groce gets the recruiting class we are hoping for, probably the following year also.
Actually Drew's record over his first five years is a little better than Coach Weber's. I think Drew having some NBA experience would help. Plus, IMO Drew has a much better demeanor. Bruce was, is not a terrible coach. However, Bruce threw players under the bus & when he left, he was blaming fans for pressuring him to recruit the players he recruited.
It has become crystal clear that Groce will be coaching the Illini for the foreseeable future. Those that are butt-hurt over this need to get over it and support the man and the team. Coming in here to riddle threads with anti-Groce sentiment is counterproductive and possibly destructive. While there are certainly some long-term posters that share similar views, those with an axe to grind through a hand full of posts either need to find ways to be constructive members of this forum or get a life elsewhere. This is an Illinois fan forum and a lot of the behavior displayed by some here recently speaks to something other than being a fan.
IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
I agree. Rational comments are totally fine, and I really enjoy both sides of the argument. However, what has made this a borderline impossible site to visit lately has been the constant complaining and 100% negative views of some members that are clearly hoping for one thing only and continue to spam that idea everywhere.
Serious Late
- Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
That is one HECK of an amazing sentence. Even with all the words though, wow... could less be said with more? If large numbers of Transfers/decommitments occur, that is a big failure of the next coach, it has nothing to do with the decision to retain the current coach. There are few things I am passionate about, but one of them is helping to combat the desire to argue for coaches, based on the potential perceived failures of the next coach. If our next coach can't keep JCL, maintain the commitments of Pickett/Williams, or attract the interested such as Goodwin/Tilmon... That is the fault of our NEXT coach and our current AD. It is NOT a reason to keep our current coach.
John Groce has been a complete failure to date as Illinois' coach. There are individual perfomances to applaud, and I refuse to discredit the growth of Morgan, JCL, Finke, etc... but to say that excusing blatant failures such as reaching the tournament, being above .500 in conference, recruiting the PG/C positions effectively, etc. is okay... it isn't. We are definitely lacking. This lack of results is 95%+ percent on Groce's efforts to date.
Is Groce trying? Yes. Is he succeeding with his efforts? To date, that is an unequivocal no. John Groce is failing dramatically and publicly with his inability to seal the deal with top recruits or attract a single top 100 PG/C. Nothing about his coaching has ever indicated he can take marginal talent in the B1G and make it competitive nationally. If Groce can't bring in superior talent, he simply isn't effective enough to maintain his position as head coach of the Illini. I am extremely skeptical this is a position that many will disagree with. That said, the beauty of this board is each individual's ability to agree/disagree with the average position.
Your mis-interpretation of supporting a coach vs. supporting a school is more destructive than anything I have seen from those vocally voicing concerns against Groce.
I have said this many times over the last several months, but I am still not calling for Groce's head. I honestly think this decision belongs in the hands of the AD and powerful boosters. Don't like that? Oh well, I think it is very fair to put the decision of those willing to spend money on the decision. In any event, Groce has not been satisfactory to date. We have recruited ZERO HS players in the top 100 at the PG or C positions. Every school in the B1G has solid 2-4 players. I feel like it has to be very clearly stated: the 2-4 positions ARE NOT DIFFICULT TO RECRUIT. PSU, Rutgers, Minnesota, etc. ALL have very strong players at the 2-4 spots. You won't win with weaknesses at the 1 and 5 spots. It will not happen. So far, our "recruiting" coach has proven completely incapable of producing results at the 1 and 5 spots. Until he changes this, Groce will remain on the hot seat.
I REALLY hope Groce makes this happen. I am skeptical anyone is substantially happier next March than we are this March, but I am willing to give it a year and hope for the best. If Groce can't make the tourney next year, I can't imagine him being kept, regardless of his recruiting class. It will be up to the next coach to keep the commitments, not a reason to avoid making a change in coaches.
I'm all over the damn map with Groce. I want him gone...I want him to succeed.
I want him to land a good class...I want somebody else to try and sway recruits.
He can't coach a lick...he's dealing with injuries, and an awkward roster.
The players are undisciplined...they're young adults/kids who have made stupid mistakes (besides Nunn, which, if true, is just plain indefensible) and he can't be everywhere at once.
The team quit on him...the team rose to the occasion. (year one)
I know he will be back, so I try to remember that first year, when he had good players, and the team looked really good at the end of the season, and almost made the sweet sixteen.
I think that one of the major problems he has dealt with, besides injuries, is chemistry. He has to stop bringing in transfers and stop-gap players. I don't think it helps.
I am hoping that next year, if everyone is back, the chemistry will improve, and players will feel more responsibility toward one another and not put themselves in bad situations.
If Thorne is back, I do not view him in the same light as the stop-gap transfers, he has been with the team for a year already, even if it's just as a cheerleader.
Still hopeful...and pessimistic.
I want him to land a good class...I want somebody else to try and sway recruits.
He can't coach a lick...he's dealing with injuries, and an awkward roster.
The players are undisciplined...they're young adults/kids who have made stupid mistakes (besides Nunn, which, if true, is just plain indefensible) and he can't be everywhere at once.
The team quit on him...the team rose to the occasion. (year one)
I know he will be back, so I try to remember that first year, when he had good players, and the team looked really good at the end of the season, and almost made the sweet sixteen.
I think that one of the major problems he has dealt with, besides injuries, is chemistry. He has to stop bringing in transfers and stop-gap players. I don't think it helps.
I am hoping that next year, if everyone is back, the chemistry will improve, and players will feel more responsibility toward one another and not put themselves in bad situations.
If Thorne is back, I do not view him in the same light as the stop-gap transfers, he has been with the team for a year already, even if it's just as a cheerleader.
Still hopeful...and pessimistic.
HoustonIllini
- Houston, TX
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Deleted member 29907
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My main problem is the Xs and Os. You see so many other teams run a disciplined, back cut, hit the open guy, movement without the ball offense and for some reason - either teaching or BB IQ we can't seem to execute. I am torn between BB IQ and coaching on that one because I see cuts to the basket that are wide open and the pass it never delivered. For the most part, I blame that on a failure to get a 4+ point guard. Its so obviously important in college to have a floor leader out there. When TA got hurt, we lost that. No one else on the team has stepped up a as leader of this team. JCL has, IMO that quality and tries to get the team in that space, but he's too young and not running the point. JCL and MF have, i think by far the highest BB IQs on the court. DJW has the killer instinct to do what is necessary to get to the ball.
brokensaphire
- Arizona
"....basketball reality says Big Ten basketball program like Illinois either must make the NCAA tournament consistently or develop exemplary young men. After four years of Groce, the Illini are failing at both." Damning words from David Haugh of the Tribune. Unfortunately, he is accurate.
I got the sense that this presser was aimed at curbing negative recruiting happening with our top targets and nothing more. Whitman knows the only thing that is going to save Coach after this year, other than a special run in 16-17, is a stellar recruiting class, i.e., Goodwin and Tilmon. This was a way to make an effort towards that end.
I got the sense that this presser was aimed at curbing negative recruiting happening with our top targets and nothing more. Whitman knows the only thing that is going to save Coach after this year, other than a special run in 16-17, is a stellar recruiting class, i.e., Goodwin and Tilmon. This was a way to make an effort towards that end.