I read an article on KenPom that said TV Ted doesn't call as many fouls as most refs.
Illini Basketball 2016-2017
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I read an article on KenPom that said TV Ted doesn't call as many fouls as most refs.
I believe that. It's the situations where he calls fouls and the manner in which he does so that gets my goat.
Not it's not. Absent Tracy coming back strong (or Lucas surprising as a FR), we are still very weak at PG. W/o competent PG play, I don't see us being top 5-6 in the conference.
The thing that is encouraging about the '16 and '17 classes is that Groce has (finally) nailed the PG position.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
First, let me say that I want and believe that this team will make the NCAA tourney and likely get to the weekend. I believe that will lead to an extension for Groce. And we will not have this conversation again for a long time, as we will be getting back to consistent attendance and success in the NCAA tourney.
If the team does not, I think Whitman would use back channels like he did with Lovie and see if he can get a sure upgrade. If not, vote of confidence and an extension for Groce. If he can hit a homerun, well, I don't think we would complain.
Although I would like Hill to remain at the 3 as much as possible, he can also be a ball handler/point forward for us in a pinch.
I think Abrams and Tate and Lucas will be able to hold down the PG position enough, and with legit 3 pt threats, a star in Hill, and some decent post scoring options in Mav and Thorne, we should be ok (as long as our defense is decent).
With Black out for the first four games we cannot loss to a couple of cupcakes. I hope Kipper is available
The nice thing is that Thorne, Morgan, Finke, Hill, DJW, JCL, AJ, Tate, Abrams, and Lucas will be available. It's been awhile since everyone on our roster was healthy this late in the summer. We shouldn't lose any of those games even if we are without Black and Kipper.
I agree, in general, that Groce is ultimately accountable this year.
A coach is hired to win, sell tickets, and represent the school well. If Groce himself was doing a performance appraisal, I am sure he would agree that he hasn't won enough and ticket sales are going in the wrong direction.
JG personally is a good representative of the school, but the program has obviously has had its share of problems off the court. He owns the behavior of those in his program as well.
He now owns the roster. It represents a collection of personnel decisions he alone has made...coaches, players, administrators... everything. He is a tireless worker, has a good class coming in, and is a likable guy. It is difficult to turn a ship, and all reasonable people agree the program was in a horrible place when he arrived, but this year the wins and attendance numbers must start going the right direction.
Back to the discussion at hand, I hope TA plays at his sophomore level for 22-25 mpg and TJL learns and develops enough to be able to hold his own defensively in the B1G for 10-15 mpg or Tate suddenly develops a jump shot and the ability to keep a PG in front of him. Hope, however, is not a strategy.
TC says if Tate plays 18mpg in the B1G we are in trouble, I agree. IlliniSC & Second & Chalmers say he simply needs to win with this roster, I agree. Zip says he wants Hill at the 3, but can play PG if necessary, I agree.
The bottom line is Groce has to win this year. Hill wants to win this year. Our roster 2-5 if healthy, is arguably as good as any in the B1G. Groce will have to be ready to play with 3 wings and no real PG if and when the above "Hope" strategy doesn't pan out. Ultimately, it's his roster, he knows the strengths and weaknesses of all of the individuals, he needs to figure it out.
I think he can do it. I hope he does it. But either way, he owns it.
Bubba Eder
- Northeast Missouri
+1 We will be fine, we have players that want to play and know the system. I am willing to guess they worked just as hard in the gym as they did in the weight room.
I realize it's getting harder to say this now that that's exactly how it did work with Lovie, but that was truly the exception that proved the rule. This is not how it works.
IlliniRunIn07
- Tampa, FL
Plus didn't Whitman use his contact(s) from the NFL to get a foot in the door with Lovie? He won't have that luxury on the hoops side, I would think.
Competence is a low bar and top 5-6 in the conference isn't actually the standard.
If the only two players you've recruited in your entire tenure at PG along with a sixth year senior who is probably the most experienced player in the entire conference are collectively SO BAD that they submarine a deep, experienced, talent-laden roster out of the tournament completely, it beggars belief to claim that a true freshman Trent Frazier is somehow the answer.
I love John Groce and I want this to work. But it is put up or shut up time right stinking now.
It was Ron Turner, Whitman's old college coach who he is still very close with. And it's not just that. It was the bizarre timing, it was the fact that Lovie was unemployed, it was Lovie having his son as an agent that allowed everything to be done in secret, it was Whitman's newness and lack of connection to Cubit, you could go on and on.
Calling things a "perfect storm" is an overused cliche. Lovie is an example of something that was truly a perfect storm.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
I believe he spoke with Ron Turner, his ex-coach and former OC of the Bears (twice). I will not underestimate Whitman. I hope it is not necessary, as I like Groce personally. He is still young and learning. I look for improvement this year, we are seeing it in the balance of the recruiting. I would like to see it on the court too.
Edit: already addressed.
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Illinifanatic4ever
- Orange & Blue Blood in my Veins
Illini play BYU on Saturday December 17th @ 8:30 CT on BTN.
3 BTN non conference games for the Illini
1. 11-11 SE Mo St. 8:00pm CT
2. 11-15 McKendree 7:00pm CT
3. 12-17 BYU 8:30pm CT
http://btn.com/2016/08/24/btn-annou...ng-big-ten-mens-basketball-non-conf-schedule/
3 BTN non conference games for the Illini
1. 11-11 SE Mo St. 8:00pm CT
2. 11-15 McKendree 7:00pm CT
3. 12-17 BYU 8:30pm CT
http://btn.com/2016/08/24/btn-annou...ng-big-ten-mens-basketball-non-conf-schedule/
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IllinoisFan733
- Chicago
Just checked StubHub... Tickets seem a bit high. $165-$190 for 200 level?
Illinifanatic4ever
- Orange & Blue Blood in my Veins
Isn't this a doubleheader game with Northwestern playing Dayton?
Dan
Admin
Leaves a lot of games for ESPN3 or BTN Plus
Leaves a lot of games for ESPN3 or BTN Plus
5 plus the exhibitions. I predict one of Detroit/Winthrop gets on ESPNU, the rest are streaming only.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
Quite happy how the staff has developed Mav? I didn't think I'd ever read that sentence. Yeah, Mav looked competent the second half of last season, and I hope to continues the progression this season, but he was almost unusable (if not for our complete lack of forwards for two seasons), for the first two thirds of his college career. Yes, I know bigs take longer to develop, etc. but Mav was anything BUT the poster child for coaches developing players. He still has yet to show an understanding or ability to execute on the defensive side. And this is a kid who somehow won the Gatorade POY award from Ohio...
Hate to sound like I'm bashing Mav, but I haven't seen much evidence of bigs developing under the current staff. Nnanna never developed any offense in his entire career. Finke came in able to shoot, and still can, but is still lost of defense. Black has yet to be developed into a consistent player -- either because of bone-headed agression, injury, or suspension (not that the staff takes much of the injury or suspension blame). And Thorne was developed elsewhere until he got injured. I hope Mav, Finke and Thorne all show clear development this season, but I'll wait until I see it.
Uh yea?
You said it yourself, his first two years he was "unusable"
The second half of B10 season last year he was averaging something like 10 and 5 and shooting 60% from the field (someone posted the stats in the other thread) and putting up even a couple monster games in there (such as 21 and 10 on Maryland). I wouldn't call his D good, but it is certainly improved vs the first two years. Yes he has been developed.
IF he's gone from unusable to what he was in B10 play last year, then how can anyone say that isn't clear development? Sure we would have liked to see it sooner, but some people take time for things to click.
Mav has developed quite well....his body has changed drastically and he is a threat to score every time he touches the ball...if he were a decent defensive player he would have entered the draft already....think you are comparing our guys to big fellas a tier above who are locks to be drafted...KU and UK are loaded with them..we now have 1 in Tilmon..lets see what our staff does with him
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