Illini Basketball 2016-2017

CAHALL15 · Jun 17, 2016

Obelix said:
Illinois won't roll scholarships over, unless they completely strike out, even with lesser ranked players. We have missed the NCAA tournament 3 years in row, Nunn is gone, and we further lose Hill, Abrams, Thorne, Mav, and Tate. We need players, even if that means you roll the dice with more players in hope that some of them pan out. If they don't, they will be replaced.

I understand your point, but it's not like we would be devoid of players.

After this year, our roster plus current commits would be:

Bigs: Finke, Black, Nichols
3: Jordan, DJW, Pickett, Nichols
2: JCL, Jordan,
1: Lucas, Williams,

It's tough to project if DJW could play some 4 without knowing changes to his body. Finke can play some 5 if need be. You have some guys that can play multiple positions such as Jordan, DJW, Nichols, and maybe JCL in time. I think you definitely need one more true big and maybe another wing/guard and we'd be set. I think if we bear in mind that most rotations have a max of 9 guys, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take a guy for the sake of body (a la Ibby Djimde).

Obelix · Jun 17, 2016

CAHALL15 said:
I understand your point, but it's not like we would be devoid of players.

After this year, our roster plus current commits would be:

Bigs: Finke, Black, Nichols
3: Jordan, DJW, Pickett, Nichols
2: JCL, Jordan,
1: Lucas, Williams,

It's tough to project if DJW could play some 4 without knowing changes to his body. Finke can play some 5 if need be. You have some guys that can play multiple positions such as Jordan, DJW, Nichols, and maybe JCL in time. I think you definitely need one more true big and maybe another wing/guard and we'd be set. I think if we bear in mind that most rotations have a max of 9 guys, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take a guy for the sake of body (a la Ibby Djimde).

Not sure what you mean devoid of players, but we have already lost a 35+mpg/15+ppg player in Nunn, and we will be losing Hill, Thorne, Abrams, Mav and even Tate. So we will be devoid of players.

That roster that you presented would take one of the most over-achieving seasons in Illini history to make the NCAA tournament, definitely not a roster that would be picked to make the tournament (pre-season). With the consecutive losses and current status of the program, Groce would need to make the tournament in 2017-18, otherwise "wait for next year (2018)" won't cut it.

It is kind of convenient to pick probably the worst player in our recent history (or even beyond) as an example, but it is not that Groce will take a guy for the sake of just having a body. If we strike out with our current top players (per your scenario) there are plenty of lesser players that Groce could take that can "potentially" contribute, as is most of the roster you presented, filled with players who can "potentially" contribute. The attrition next year (Nunn, Hill, Thorne, Abrams, Mav, Tate) will be very significant.

I can guarantee you that there will not be 2 rolled scholarships to 2018, and I seriously doubt we even roll 1 scholarship intentionally. If that happens it will be because Illinois strikes out, not with our top recruits right now (that may be expected) but because we additionally strike out with many lesser (ranked) players or scholarships open up unexpectedly for other reasons (players leave/transfer). JMO.

CAHALL15 · Jun 18, 2016

Obelix said:
Not sure what you mean devoid of players, but we have already lost a 35+mpg/15+ppg player in Nunn, and we will be losing Hill, Thorne, Abrams, Mav and even Tate. So we will be devoid of players.

That roster that you presented would take one of the most over-achieving seasons in Illini history to make the NCAA tournament, definitely not a roster that would be picked to make the tournament (pre-season). With the consecutive losses and current status of the program, Groce would need to make the tournament in 2017-18, otherwise "wait for next year (2018)" won't cut it.

It is kind of convenient to pick probably the worst player in our recent history (or even beyond) as an example, but it is not that Groce will take a guy for the sake of just having a body. If we strike out with our current top players (per your scenario) there are plenty of lesser players that Groce could take that can "potentially" contribute, as is most of the roster you presented, filled with players who can "potentially" contribute. The attrition next year (Nunn, Hill, Thorne, Abrams, Mav, Tate) will be very significant.

I can guarantee you that there will not be 2 rolled scholarships to 2018, and I seriously doubt we even roll 1 scholarship intentionally. If that happens it will be because Illinois strikes out, not with our top recruits right now (that may be expected) but because we additionally strike out with many lesser (ranked) players or scholarships open up unexpectedly for other reasons (players leave/transfer). JMO.

Devoid meaning not having enough players to put in a rotation plus guys on the end of the bench.

I understand what we are losing with these seniors, but at the same time, it remains a mystery exactly how the younger guys improve. I would be willing to bet that all of last year's freshman will show some improvement especially with some more available playing time. If DJW, AJ, Finke, and JCL look exactly the same as last year then sure; let's get six new guys whomever they are. I picked Ibby because he really exemplified taking a big because Bruce wanted one. We don't have to get all top 100 guys if they are still guys who can contribute like Finke. I guess what I'm getting at is I want guys who I can feel confident about when it comes to a contribution to the team.

I really would like a ride for Tim Finke and maybe one other in 2018, but bringing in 6 guys might cause one or two transfer anyway. I appreciate the discussion even though this is all a moot point since Groce is calling the shots.

Combo · Jun 18, 2016

The whole notion of "rolling over" schollies is absurd. A competent coach always tries to add any player that has the possibility (even if tiny) of helping the team as soon as possible.

There is no guarantee that any of the '18 prospects we discuss will sign with us. Not even close.

Furthermore, there is attrition virtually every season. So schollies will in all lilkelihood open anyway.

The idea of rolling over schollies is (along with class balance) one of the more ridiculous ideas repeated over and over on this board.

Coaches' 7 figure salaries are dependent on winning now and if not now, then ASAP. I guarantee you rolling over schollies and class balance are about the last items on their to-do list.

Captain Bubbles · Jun 18, 2016

All I hope for this year:

All the players stay healthy.
Illinois makes the NCAA Tournament.
Gets a solid recruiting class.
The players succeed and do well in the classroom.
Stay out of trouble.
Continue to make positive strides in their game, but also personally.

When this happens, it's all cream cheese.

whovous · Jun 18, 2016

Combo said:
The whole notion of "rolling over" schollies is absurd. A competent coach always tries to add any player that has the possibility (even if tiny) of helping the team as soon as possible.

There is no guarantee that any of the '18 prospects we discuss will sign with us. Not even close.

Furthermore, there is attrition virtually every season. So schollies will in all lilkelihood open anyway.

The idea of rolling over schollies is (along with class balance) one of the more ridiculous ideas repeated over and over on this board.

Coaches' 7 figure salaries are dependent on winning now and if not now, then ASAP. I guarantee you rolling over schollies and class balance are about the last items on their to-do list.

+1 on the problems with rolling over schollies. 13 players are better than 12 players. With injuries, 9 players are a lot better than 8 players.

+0.04 on class balance. If you have a chance to balance the class, you can prepare for the future and the now at the same time.

Class balance is a good idea, but you have to stick around long enough as a coach for that to play out. It would be nice to have a balanced class someday, but it will be even nicer to have a winning team this year.

FatGreg · Jun 18, 2016

Man, is it depressing to see how slow all the UI basketball message boards have become! Between the three boards I check, there might be a post or two per hour total (!) these days. I'm always popping in to check for a bit of news or an interesting post or topic, and it's just dead. I started reading the boards (the old Illiniboard) when I was in school from '00 to '04. I stayed for another year in Champaign after graduation and saw the 2004-05 season up close. The entire country was buzzing about Illini hoops during that entire stretch. The message boards were full of year-round enthusiasm, speculation, random tidbits of info...

Between '00-01 and '04-05 Illinois was 141-33 overall and 63-17 in the Big Ten, made the tournament every year (one NC game appearance, one E8, two S16, one rd32) won 4 B1G Championships and finished 2nd once, and established the nation's longest home winning streak.

Between '11-12 and '15-16, Illinois went 94-76 overall and 35-55 in the B1G, made the tournament once (round of 32), finished no higher than t-7th in conference and had a low finish of 12th in '15-16, and had a handful of unconscionable losses and major discipline issues.

I guess that's enough to slow message board chatter to a halt, keep thousands of people away from the Assembly Hall, and render the program invisible in the national press?! What about all of us idiots who still want to talk Illini basketball all day, every day? If even the Loyalty board is a graveyard, who are we supposed to talk to?

Maybe Goodwin, Tilmon, and Scruggs will commit and then we'll go 29-10 and make an Elite 8 this year with Malcolm winning B1G POY along the way. Then people will get excited again and I won't be so bored during the offseason. In the meantime, I guess I'll get ahead on admin work.

bleedsorangenblue · Jun 18, 2016

I feel your pain! I still check in for any news but it is few and far between. It will pick up as the season approaches so that is some solace.

icengineer · Jun 18, 2016

I'm feeling the blues right along with you guys! Jonesin' for some info/talk/chatter! I'm not even remotely connected like it seems a few folks may be, so it's hard to get something rolling on here. I'm going to be spending about 10 days in Mexico here in a few days so I'm hoping to come back and have some good news and lots of catching up to do.

ray:

Hoppy2105 · Jun 18, 2016

icengineer said:
I'm feeling the blues right along with you guys! Jonesin' for some info/talk/chatter! I'm not even remotely connected like it seems a few folks may be, so it's hard to get something rolling on here. I'm going to be spending about 10 days in Mexico here in a few days so I'm hoping to come back and have some good news and lots of catching up to do. ray:

You do know that if something awesome happens while you're away we are all going to ask you to go back, right? :thumb:

icengineer · Jun 18, 2016

Hoppy2105 said:
You do know that if something awesome happens while you're away we are all going to ask you to go back, right? :thumb:

Well, all I can say to that is, I've been known to have a pretty good time down South there. We may have to start a GoFundMe page to help with the costs, but I'm game! :thumb:

Hoppy2105 · Jun 18, 2016

icengineer said:
Well, all I can say to that is, I've been known to have a pretty good time down South there. We may have to start a GoFundMe page to help with the costs, but I'm game! :thumb:

Deal!

ItsFootballTime · Jun 19, 2016

FatGreg said:
Man, is it depressing to see how slow all the UI basketball message boards have become! Between the three boards I check, there might be a post or two per hour total (!) these days. I'm always popping in to check for a bit of news or an interesting post or topic, and it's just dead. I started reading the boards (the old Illiniboard) when I was in school from '00 to '04. I stayed for another year in Champaign after graduation and saw the 2004-05 season up close. The entire country was buzzing about Illini hoops during that entire stretch. The message boards were full of year-round enthusiasm, speculation, random tidbits of info...

Between '00-01 and '04-05 Illinois was 141-33 overall and 63-17 in the Big Ten, made the tournament every year (one NC game appearance, one E8, two S16, one rd32) won 4 B1G Championships and finished 2nd once, and established the nation's longest home winning streak.

Between '11-12 and '15-16, Illinois went 94-76 overall and 35-55 in the B1G, made the tournament once (round of 32), finished no higher than t-7th in conference and had a low finish of 12th in '15-16, and had a handful of unconscionable losses and major discipline issues.

I guess that's enough to slow message board chatter to a halt, keep thousands of people away from the Assembly Hall, and render the program invisible in the national press?! What about all of us idiots who still want to talk Illini basketball all day, every day? If even the Loyalty board is a graveyard, who are we supposed to talk to?

Maybe Goodwin, Tilmon, and Scruggs will commit and then we'll go 29-10 and make an Elite 8 this year with Malcolm winning B1G POY along the way. Then people will get excited again and I won't be so bored during the offseason. In the meantime, I guess I'll get ahead on admin work.

Tracy Abrams will be the best Point Guard in the Big Ten this year.

Go.

Bomb Squad 217 · Jun 19, 2016

ItsFootballTime said:
Tracy Abrams will be the best Point Guard in the Big Ten this year.

Go.

Sounds good to me lol. He might be the oldest.

JimmyTheLayup · Jun 19, 2016

Bomb Squad 217 said:
Sounds good to me lol. He might be the oldest.

I don't think that there is any might to that.

FatGreg · Jun 19, 2016

ItsFootballTime said:
Tracy Abrams will be the best Point Guard in the Big Ten this year.

Go.

If your point is that we don't have anything realistic to get excited about right now, touche.

Just to get the conversation going a tiny bit, though, how about a comparison position-by-position between Illinois and the rest of the B1G? Where do we fit in terms of strengths and weaknesses? Here's my take (admittedly without knowing some of the other rosters inside and out):

PG - Abrams/Lucas/Tate

League Ranking: 13th

Explanation: I'd argue that only Iowa is in worse shape than we are at PG. When Abrams was at his best as a sophomore and junior, he was still an inefficient player who shot poorly and never achieved a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. He's a great kid, good leader, good defender, and enough of an offensive threat that defenses have to guard him, so he's still a big upgrade over what we've had the past two years.

Our situation is similar to Purdue's: if Albrecht stays healthy, he'll give them an average to slightly-below-average talent at the position, but lots of leadership and experience. If Albrecht can't perform well or handle starter's minutes, they'll trot out an under-the-radar freshman. The differences for me are 1) almost no one comes back from a torn achilles and plays up to their previous standard; there's usually a big drop-off in efficiency. For an already inefficient player, that's terrifying. I'm very pessimistic about Tracy's situation this year - I'll be surprised if he can be a replacement level B1G player. And, 2) Purdue's under-the-radar freshman, Carsen Edwards, is still rated about 30 spots higher than Te'Jon and isn't coming off a season ending injury like Te'Jon is.

I think there's a 50/50 chance that Jaylon Tate ends up playing 20+ minutes per game this year. I think it's more realistic than a lot of people on this board are imagining. If Tate ends up being our main PG, we're obviously not in good shape. We have to cross our fingers that either Tracy has become a MUCH better shooter and floor general over the last two years or Te'Jon is our version of Trey Burke.

Other bad B1G teams still have much better options than we do at PG: Minnesota starts Nate Mason, who's inefficient and not an amazing player, but still averages 13.8 ppg and 4.5 apg, shoots 30% from 3 and 39% overall, and has a 2.6:1 a/to ratio. That's still better than pre-injury Tracy across the board. Rutgers has Corey Sanders, who would be our second best player. Same goes for Northwestern's Bryant McIntosh. Nebraska has Glynn Watson, who probably won't ever be a world beater, but does anyone doubt he'd start for UI this year? They also have Anton Gill and Tai Webster to handle the ball some. Penn State brings in consensus top-50ish PG Tony Carr and returns Shep Garner (14.8 ppg, 3.4 apg, 37% from 3).

Long story short: if Tate improves modestly, Te'Jon Lucas is fully recovered and plays a little better than his ranking, and Abrams gives you 90% of what he did pre-injury, this is still a bottom-4 positional rotation. Barring a miracle, PG is going to be a big time weakness. The good news is that the other positions should be pretty darn good relative to the competition. Here's my position-by-position preseason ranking:

PG - 13th out of 14
SG - 4th (behind IU, MSU, Iowa if Jok counts as SG; I'll take JCL and AJ over Zak Irvin of UM and Anton Gill of UNL; counting UNL's Andrew White and UM's Duncan Robinson as Small Forwards)
SF - 2nd (behind UW; barely ahead of MSU, UM, PU, and UNL)
PF - 5th (behind PU, OSU, IU, and MSU whether they play Nick Ward at PF or go small with Miles Bridges as a 4th G/WF; just ahead of Iowa with Uhl and frosh Tyler Cook)
C - 4th (behind PU, IU, UW counting Happ as their C; ahead of OSU with Trevor Thompson, MSU with Schilling, and UM with Donnal)

This is optimistic--you could easily put us 5th or 6th at SG, 6th at PF, and 7th or 8th at C. That said, there's not a position other than PG where we'll be overmatched this year provided everyone stays healthy. When looking over this year's B1G rosters, I was struck by how many teams will likely play small ball. An advantage we have is that we can slide Hill to the 4 when necessary against teams like UM, MSU, and Iowa, but we can also play combinations of Black, Finke, Mav, and Thorne to match up against bigger lineups. We have more lineup flexibility than a lot of teams, I think. We're definitely a top-4 squad in terms of pure size, which hasn't been the case for a long time. Our rebounding woes should be mercifully over.

Keys to the season:
-Stay healthy!
-One of the Point Guards has to play at a B1G replacement level - if any of Abrams, Lucas, or Tate can be around the 9th best PG in the league, that's more than sufficient.
-Hill has to follow up last year's breakout with a comparably excellent season.
-JCL has to take a step and become one of the league's top offensive weapons.
-Black has to stay out of foul trouble enough to play 20+ minutes per game.
-Thorne has to be well enough conditioned to play 18+ minutes per game and average something like 9 and 6 with a block (totally doable, IMO).
-Finke and at least one of Jordan and DJW have to take a significant step.

If all these things happen, it's going to be a pretty special season! Maybe a top-5 finish in the league and a 6/7 seed in the tournament. Who knows, maybe even a bit better than that.

Newman · Jun 19, 2016

FatGreg said:
If your point is that we don't have anything realistic to get excited about right now, touche.

Just to get the conversation going a tiny bit, though, how about a comparison position-by-position between Illinois and the rest of the B1G? Where do we fit in terms of strengths and weaknesses? Here's my take (admittedly without knowing some of the other rosters inside and out):

PG - Abrams/Lucas/Tate

League Ranking: 13th

Explanation: I'd argue that only Iowa is in worse shape than we are at PG. When Abrams was at his best as a sophomore and junior, he was still an inefficient player who shot poorly and never achieved a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. He's a great kid, good leader, good defender, and enough of an offensive threat that defenses have to guard him, so he's still a big upgrade over what we've had the past two years.

Our situation is similar to Purdue's: if Albrecht stays healthy, he'll give them an average to slightly-below-average talent at the position, but lots of leadership and experience. If Albrecht can't perform well or handle starter's minutes, they'll trot out an under-the-radar freshman. The differences for me are 1) almost no one comes back from a torn achilles and plays up to their previous standard; there's usually a big drop-off in efficiency. For an already inefficient player, that's terrifying. I'm very pessimistic about Tracy's situation this year - I'll be surprised if he can be a replacement level B1G player. And, 2) Purdue's under-the-radar freshman, Carsen Edwards, is still rated about 30 spots higher than Te'Jon and isn't coming off a season ending injury like Te'Jon is.

I think there's a 50/50 chance that Jaylon Tate ends up playing 20+ minutes per game this year. I think it's more realistic than a lot of people on this board are imagining. If Tate ends up being our main PG, we're obviously not in good shape. We have to cross our fingers that either Tracy has become a MUCH better shooter and floor general over the last two years or Te'Jon is our version of Trey Burke.

Other bad B1G teams still have much better options than we do at PG: Minnesota starts Nate Mason, who's inefficient and not an amazing player, but still averages 13.8 ppg and 4.5 apg, shoots 30% from 3 and 39% overall, and has a 2.6:1 a/to ratio. That's still better than pre-injury Tracy across the board. Rutgers has Corey Sanders, who would be our second best player. Same goes for Northwestern's Bryant McIntosh. Nebraska has Glynn Watson, who probably won't ever be a world beater, but does anyone doubt he'd start for UI this year? They also have Anton Gill and Tai Webster to handle the ball some. Penn State brings in consensus top-50ish PG Tony Carr and returns Shep Garner (14.8 ppg, 3.4 apg, 37% from 3).

Long story short: if Tate improves modestly, Te'Jon Lucas is fully recovered and plays a little better than his ranking, and Abrams gives you 90% of what he did pre-injury, this is still a bottom-4 positional rotation. Barring a miracle, PG is going to be a big time weakness. The good news is that the other positions should be pretty darn good relative to the competition. Here's my position-by-position preseason ranking:

PG - 13th out of 14
SG - 4th (behind IU, MSU, Iowa if Jok counts as SG; I'll take JCL and AJ over Zak Irvin of UM and Anton Gill of UNL; counting UNL's Andrew White and UM's Duncan Robinson as Small Forwards)
SF - 2nd (behind UW; barely ahead of MSU, UM, PU, and UNL)
PF - 5th (behind PU, OSU, IU, and MSU whether they play Nick Ward at PF or go small with Miles Bridges as a 4th G/WF; just ahead of Iowa with Uhl and frosh Tyler Cook)
C - 4th (behind PU, IU, UW counting Happ as their C; ahead of OSU with Trevor Thompson, MSU with Schilling, and UM with Donnal)

This is optimistic--you could easily put us 5th or 6th at SG, 6th at PF, and 7th or 8th at C. That said, there's not a position other than PG where we'll be overmatched this year provided everyone stays healthy. When looking over this year's B1G rosters, I was struck by how many teams will likely play small ball. An advantage we have is that we can slide Hill to the 4 when necessary against teams like UM, MSU, and Iowa, but we can also play combinations of Black, Finke, Mav, and Thorne to match up against bigger lineups. We have more lineup flexibility than a lot of teams, I think. We're definitely a top-4 squad in terms of pure size, which hasn't been the case for a long time. Our rebounding woes should be mercifully over.

Keys to the season:
-Stay healthy!
-One of the Point Guards has to play at a B1G replacement level - if any of Abrams, Lucas, or Tate can be around the 9th best PG in the league, that's more than sufficient.
-Hill has to follow up last year's breakout with a comparably excellent season.
-JCL has to take a step and become one of the league's top offensive weapons.
-Black has to stay out of foul trouble enough to play 20+ minutes per game.
-Thorne has to be well enough conditioned to play 18+ minutes per game and average something like 9 and 6 with a block (totally doable, IMO).
-Finke and at least one of Jordan and DJW have to take a significant step.

If all these things happen, it's going to be a pretty special season! Maybe a top-5 finish in the league and a 6/7 seed in the tournament. Who knows, maybe even a bit better than that.

We might be 13th at the pg position but I think Tracy brings a ton of intangibles that won't show up on the stat line. A big thing to keep in mind is that there arent any elite point guards in the conference this year. Even the top ones in the B1G are pretty inefficient. Koenig shot less than 40% last year, and so did Jaquan Lyle, Shep Garner, Nate Mason like you mentioned, and maybe a couple more that I missed. We may end up being roughly 13th but the talent gap is pretty small between most of the teams. I wouldn't be surprised if our pg play ends up being average at the position compared to the other teams in the conference now that we'll have a pretty balanced roster. Having average pg play would tremendously help our postseason chances.

ECETownie · Jun 19, 2016

FatGreg said:
Man, is it depressing to see how slow all the UI basketball message boards have become! Between the three boards I check, there might be a post or two per hour total (!) these days. I'm always popping in to check for a bit of news or an interesting post or topic, and it's just dead. I started reading the boards (the old Illiniboard) when I was in school from '00 to '04. I stayed for another year in Champaign after graduation and saw the 2004-05 season up close. The entire country was buzzing about Illini hoops during that entire stretch. The message boards were full of year-round enthusiasm, speculation, random tidbits of info...

Between '00-01 and '04-05 Illinois was 141-33 overall and 63-17 in the Big Ten, made the tournament every year (one NC game appearance, one E8, two S16, one rd32) won 4 B1G Championships and finished 2nd once, and established the nation's longest home winning streak.

Between '11-12 and '15-16, Illinois went 94-76 overall and 35-55 in the B1G, made the tournament once (round of 32), finished no higher than t-7th in conference and had a low finish of 12th in '15-16, and had a handful of unconscionable losses and major discipline issues.

I guess that's enough to slow message board chatter to a halt, keep thousands of people away from the Assembly Hall, and render the program invisible in the national press?! What about all of us idiots who still want to talk Illini basketball all day, every day? If even the Loyalty board is a graveyard, who are we supposed to talk to?

Maybe Goodwin, Tilmon, and Scruggs will commit and then we'll go 29-10 and make an Elite 8 this year with Malcolm winning B1G POY along the way. Then people will get excited again and I won't be so bored during the offseason. In the meantime, I guess I'll get ahead on admin work.

Your passion has convinced me to finally create an account and do what I can to energize the board! Going into my senior year at UIUC and praying I'm not a member of one of the few (only?) classes to ever earn a degree without witnessing an NCAA tournament appearance.

What tidbits I can offer at this time: I met JCL before one of my intramural basketball games last year (really nice guy) and we talked about his desire to get into the College of Business and how he had started to work with the new College of Medicine and the ECE department on some sort of medical device sales program. This was before or around the rumor about him leaving if he didn't get into COB. I guess I can't say this with complete certainty, but he didn't sound like someone who planned on transferring. He also said how much he loved the students and fans on campus and seemed like he truly was enjoying his time here.

Finally, I'm living about a block from West Quad Apartments so I'll keep my ears peeled for any shenanigans and try to keep our boys out of trouble

(but seriously, I'm not a crazy stalker fan)

Obelix · Jun 19, 2016

Newman said:
A big thing to keep in mind is that there arent any elite point guards in the conference this year. Even the top ones in the B1G are pretty inefficient.

Melo Trimble.

Bomb Squad 217 · Jun 19, 2016

Obelix said:
Melo Trimble.

ALso, I think Corey Sanders is going to explode this year. He is nearly impossible to stop.

TCTORNADO · Jun 19, 2016

Derrick Walton/Xavier Simpson--UM
TumTum Nairns/Cassius Winston--MSU
McIntosh--NW

LOL, PG might be the B!G's strongest position.

Deleted member 10676 · Jun 19, 2016

Don't forget Jaquan Lyle is going to be a year older and is the only kid left from that class. He could very well be the stud he was in high school if he had the ball in his hands most of the time. I also think Glynn Watson is going to be a load this year and the following two.

Bomb Squad 217 · Jun 19, 2016

All these good examples and stuff. Pshh.

Newman · Jun 19, 2016

TCTORNADO said:
Derrick Walton/Xavier Simpson--UM
TumTum Nairns/Cassius Winston--MSU
McIntosh--NW

LOL, PG might be the B!G's strongest position.

Derrick Walton shot 37% from the field, Xavier Simpson probably won't be elite in his first year. Tum Tum shot 38%.
McIntosh, Tremble, Lyle and Sanders are who I would consider to be the top in the conference. I would only consider two of them as potential elite players though. We have a lot of good point guards, just not many great. If we consider us 13th with Tracy then I think it's fair to criticize the other weaknesses at the position. Tracy may not be his old self, but if we're looking at efficiency as the main criteria, Tracy was just as good as most of the guys mentioned, which should have been my main point.

FatGreg · Jun 20, 2016

Here's a look at the PG depth charts for all 14 B1G teams. I've listed stats for each player from their most recent healthy season. For freshmen, I've listed the 247 composite ranking. These are ranked in order. I'm considering both talent and depth. It goes without saying that this is totally subjective (I know some will have MSU and Nebraska higher and PSU and Minnesota lower, for instance). Anyway, I hope this helps illustrate the B1G landscape a little better. At least we're not Iowa :thumb:

#1: Maryland
Starter: Melo Trimble - JR - 14.8 ppg, 4.9 ast, 3.6 reb, 1.2 stl, .410 fg%, .315 3pt%
Primary Backup: Anthony Cowen - FR - #62 overall; #11 PG
3rd String: Jaylen Brantley - JR - 2.4 ppg, 0.6 ast, 1.0 reb, 0.2 stl, .474 fg%, .429 3pt%

#2: Michigan
Starter: Derrick Walton, Jr - SR - 11.6 ppg, 4.5 ast, 5.4 reb, 1.8 stl, .377 fg%, .387 3pt%
Primary Backup: Xavier Simpson - FR - #66 overall; #13 PG
3rd String: either Dan Dakich's son or they have Zak Irvin run the offense

#3: Northwestern
Starter: Bryant McIntosh - JR - 13.8 ppg, 6.7 ast, 3.6 reb, 1.0 stl, .423 fg%, .366 3pt%
Primary Backup: Jordan Ash - SO - 1.5 ppg, 1.0 ast, 0.7 reb, 0.2 stl, .414 fg%, .267 3pt%
3rd String: Isiah Brown - FR - #237 overall; #43 PG, or Scottie Lindsay (JR)

#4: Rutgers
Starter: Corey Sanders - SO - 15.9 ppg, 4.3 ast, 3.3 reb, 1.8 stl, .423 fg%, .315 3pt%
Primary Backup: Nigel Johnson - JR - 5.2 ppg, 1.7 ast, 1.6 reb, 1.0 stl, .398 fg%, .339 3pt% (2014-15 at KSU)
3rd String: I guess Jake Dadika? Less than 1 ppg, 1 ast, 1 reb. Non-factor.

#5: Penn State
Starter: Tony Carr - FR - #51 overall; #8 PG
Primary Backup: Shep Garner - JR - 14.8 ppg, 3.4 ast, 3.2 reb, 1.3 stl, .382 fg%, .366 3pt% (nice player - will start at SG this year, but showed he could play point last year)
3rd String: SR walk-on Sam Halle, I guess?

#6: Ohio State
Starter: JaQuan Lyle - SO - 11.2 ppg, 4.2 ast, 4.7 reb, 1.0 stl, .397 fg%, .252 3pt%
Primary Backup: CJ Jackson - SO - JUCO transfer
3rd String: Kam Williams probably slides over from the 2.

#7: Michigan State
Starter: Cassius Winston - FR - #33 overall; #5 PG
Primary Backup: Tum Tum Nairn - JR - 2.8 ppg, 3.3 ast, 1.1 reb, 0.3 stl, .379 fg%, .188 3pt%
3rd String: Eron Harris probably plays in a pinch.

#8: Wisconsin
Starter: Bronson Koenig - SR - 13.1 ppg, 2.4 ast, 2.8 reb, 0.4 stl, .392 fg%, .390 3pt%
Primary Backup: D'Mitrik Trice - FR - #357 overall; #76 PG
3rd String: Maybe Brevin Pritzl slides over?

#9: Minnesota
Starter: Nate Mason - JR - 13.8 ppg, 4.5 ast, 2.8 reb, 0.9 stl, .389 fg%, .302 3pt%
Primary Backup: Dupree McBrayer - SO - 5.9 ppg, 2.5 ast, 2.3 reb, 1.0 stl, .326 fg%, .250 3pt% (McBrayer will either start at SG or back up transfer Akeem Springs, but he's enough of a playmaker to give Mason a breather)
3rd String: ?? The Gophers have limited depth with Kevin Dorsey's transfer and Jarvis Johnson's heart-related retirement from the sport. Those guys were both top-200 PGs in the 2015 class.

#10: Nebraska
Starter: Glynn Watson - SO - 8.6 ppg, 2.4 ast, 1.9 reb, 1.2 stl, .389 fg%, .267 3pt%
Primary Backup: Tai Webster - SR - 10.1 ppg, 1.9 ast, 4.1 reb, 1.4 stl, .474 fg%, .350 3pt% (may start at SG or may back up Anton Gill there; can play spot minutes at PG)
3rd String: Bakari Evelyn - SO - 1.4 ppg, 0.2 ast, 0.5 reb, 5 mpg as a frosh

#11: Indiana
Starter: Josh Newkirk - 5.9 ppg, 2.7 ast, 1.3 reb, 0.5 stl, .377 fg%, .301 3pt% (2014-15 at Pitt)
Primary Backup: Robert Johnson - 8.1 ppg, 3.1 ast, 3.3 reb, 0.6 stl, .449 fg%, .447 3pt% (might start at SG in a 3-guard lineup; if not, might start over Newkirk, who never matched the hype at PITT and is coming off of microfracture surgery)
3rd String: one of the freshman - CG Curtis Jones is ranked #85 overall and PG Devonte Green is #198

#12: Purdue
Starter: Spike Albrecht - SR - 7.5 ppg, 3.9 ast, 2.3 reb, 0.9 stl, .404 fg%, .365 3pt% (2014-15 at UM)
Primary Backup: Carsen Edwards - FR - #118 overall; #24 PG
3rd String: P.J. Thompson - JR - 5.7 ppg, 2.7 ast, 2.1 reb, 0.7 stl, .438 fg%, .415 3pt%

#13: Illinois
Starter: Tracy Abrams - SR - 10.7 ppg, 3.2 ast, 3.5 reb, 1.2 stl, .333 fg%, .270 3pt% (2013-14)
Primary Backup: Te'Jon Lucas - FR - #142 overall; #28 PG
3rd String: Jaylon Tate - SR - 1.9 ppg, 2.6 ast, 1.3 reb, 0.4 stl, .367 fg%, .182 3pt%

#14: Iowa
Starter: Christian Williams - SO - 1.4 ppg, 0.4 ast, 0.9 reb, 0.3 stl, .321 fg%, .333 3pt%
Primary Backup: Jordan Bohannon - FR - #298 overall; #54 PG
3rd String: Probably Peter Jok doing a Malcolm Hill do-it-all thing

Illini Basketball 2016-2017

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