Illini Basketball 2017-2018
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Disappointed that Tupper bashed Tate in this article - no need for that.
But, I loved this quote:
Underwood is such a refreshing change. I'm 99% confident he's going to do an outstanding job.
I've watched a few videos of Underwood at the whiteboard - he's a really good teacher. Such a contrast from Groce. I remember watching a few clips of Groce trying to teach defensive positioning and thinking - "That's the problem. Nobody can understand what he's saying."
What happened to him
jcgoldie, well said. My main point was that, while it is good to be careful and respectful when talking about current players, I don't see anything wrong with being more blunt and objective with former players....and....you can be blunt without "slinging mud".
Was curious, so compared existing players to 2005 players for the same year I.e. Frosh or soph. Interestingly TJL and Deron are the same for pts/min. MF and JA are also the same. KN is ahead of L. Head but LB is lower than Roger. Didn't compare Dee, but he was much higher than the other guards. Point avg for 2005 was 6 pts higher than 2017 avg. My conclusion is that it is meaningless because it will still boil down to defense and development of these players. I do not agree however, that we have no talent. Not final four talent, but enough to compete and not be embarrassed.
Yeah uhhh don't think it's time to compare our guys to the 05 team yet.
I've said this before. Tate was not a good outside shooter which made it all the more strange that he led the BT in free throw shooting one year. One would think that if you could shoot almost 90% from the line one year, you could knock down an occasional outside shot.
IMO, the issue was not his shooting eye but his shooting form when he went to the jump shot.
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I see discussing or slinging mud at former players in most loyalty threads as generally "off topic" and serves little purpose. Don't see good in slamming current players either.
All that said, I'm expecting BU player development and gameplans in 2017-2018 to be much better than we've seen in the past.
That's one of the 3 entries (and actually the one my teams runs the most). On the dribble the first two cutters will still cut like normal, so there ends up being a huge cluster around the baseline that one guy pops up out of. Lots of good elbow jumpers or 3 point looks coming off the pin screen. Once teams start to cheat that the screen direction will be reversed for a lob (looking at you kipper). For someone like Leron who is comfortable with that one dribble hook shot, I can see him setting some nasty pin screens forcing a switch and creating mismatches inside and outside.
Deleted member 8213
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I agree you can be critical without crossing a line into bashing players... in this case I just didn't see what Tupper's point was. The example he used gave zero support to his premise.
I read Tupper's article for the first time this morning. I saw the term "hackwork" being thrown around here... and after reading, I tend to agree. The Tate material had no real bearing on the article, and was a totally unnecessary pot shot at a player who did what he could, lack of statistics and proof entirely aside.
He sounds like a very good fit. When I think about the situation the roster was in after the coaching changes played out, I consider us fortunate to get him.
I was trying to make the point that despite TJL's scoring image he was the same as Deron's first year. However you are right, comparing to 2016 would be better.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
I'm trying to avoid thinking of Richard Semrau when I read about Vesel. Sort of an unknown big guy with generally underwhelming stats, but plenty of reports from insiders or coaches who speak very highly of him and promise great development.
Richard Semrau was not really an unknown, he was actually a pretty highly regarded prospect early on. Was he going to develop had it not been for injuries? Nobody can say for sure.
I hope Vesel has the exact opposite trajectory. Not highly regarded nor really known, but hopefully he can avoid injuries and develop into a much better player than expected.
Deleted member 8213
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Why would you compare him to Deron in his sophomore, jr or sr seasons? That would be ridiculous. As a freshman Deron averaged 6.3 pts and 4.5 Assts 27 mpg... TJL 4.8 and 3.1 in 20 minutes... not out of the ballpark and not bad to compare. Do I think Lucas will have the career success of Williams? Of course not, physically he doesn't compare. I'd still like to wait for his sophomore year before we compare him to Deron as a soph, jr or to his magical sr season that never existed. :noidea:
Semrau was a top 100 recruit when he committed. Injuries hurt his ranking. At Illinois, he was impressive in early practices. However, during a scrimmage, he took a hard shot to the chest that caused some internal injury and almost died. When he returned, he was much more timid about contact. Was never the player many projected him to be. But he was not an unknown. In fact, early in his high school career, he was a top 30 in his class.
illini80
- Forgottonia
One of many major disappointments during that coaching rein. That's partly why I don't get too excited over recruits. We have seen too many times that guys who have a strong ranking and seem to have great potential, just don't pan out for any number of reasons. This game is not as easy as we want to believe it is.
illini80
- Forgottonia
That is true at the end, but when he signed he was still considered a good prospect. I know now that his ranking was already falling, but at that time it seemed like a great pickup to someone who only read what was in the paper.
Yup, Carlwell and Semrau on top of a NC game--just outstanding. And that was preceeded by a class of Charles Jackson, Chester Frazier, and Jamar.
We have a list of hall of fame quality high school freshmen and sophomore rankings to our credit. How do we get the country to end high school at sophomore year?
+1, we desperately needed a couple bigs & it was too late in the game to think we would pull out a top 100 big. They give us a warm body on the bench that we need to fill some minutes this year & next; down the road a couple of reasonable chances to have a contributor. Both of these guys are more for 2019 or back up for 2018 if Finke or Black would choose to move on early.
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