Illini Basketball 2018-2019

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#1,301      

t7nich

t7nich
Central IL
t7nich
illinitiger said:
You know if in March, we had accepted Kane contingent on his reclassifying...and he would likely be available in August, most would have applauded loudly.

Now, he appears to have a clearinghouse issue and everyone is blaming it on BU, which seems nuts to me.

Ill take Kane now, in August or next year....earlier the better.


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Should have been cleared up already by UofI offices before he even came here to take classes. Maybe it was unavoidable. Either way, it falls on BU because this is his program and he recruited the kid who has a complicated background, transcript-wise.

Agree, we take Kane whenever we can get him. But it sure does suck that he will for sure miss at least a full summer with the team and fletch.
 
#1,302      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
The Galloping Ghost said:
It's wild to me that people can look at each of these instances in a vacuum.

Kane, in and of itself might just be bad luck, but a roster with 3 open spots in June (maybe 4 depending on how the Kane situation shakes out) AND a serious lack of depth at a vital position, is where the issue lies. I have my fingers crossed it's nothing, but there seems to be some serious smoke coming out of Ubben right now.
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I mean, I don't think there's some master explanation for the whole thing necessarily. I think there have been a mix of Creanings, didn't-want-to-play-for-Underwoods, and now a grades thing.

Here's the problem. If the 2019 and 2020 classes aren't full of solid contributors, Underwood is going to fail at Illinois. No one is going to like to see it phrased that way, but that's a very reasonable, conservative, fairly obvious inference.

We have one season's worth of games that are going to be played between now and the fall signing period for that 2020 class, and the all-time program record for losses is in very serious danger for that season, in my view.

I will continue to fight back against the idea that Underwood inherited a known dumpster fire that no coach anywhere would have had any chance to have early success with. That's incorrect. But new coaches deserve time to shape things in their image and understanding if it doesn't happen right away. So we shouldn't be writing him off by any means. But when you realize how critical the next 18 months are, hot damn, this boat is taking on a lot of water and I see more holes than buckets.
 
#1,304      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
Second and Chalmers said:
I mean, I don't think there's some master explanation for the whole thing necessarily. I think there have been a mix of Creanings, didn't-want-to-play-for-Underwoods, and now a grades thing.

Here's the problem. If the 2019 and 2020 classes aren't full of solid contributors, Underwood is going to fail at Illinois. No one is going to like to see it phrased that way, but that's a very reasonable, conservative, fairly obvious inference.

We have one season's worth of games that are going to be played between now and the fall signing period for that 2020 class, and the all-time program record for losses is in very serious danger for that season, in my view.

I will continue to fight back against the idea that Underwood inherited a known dumpster fire that no coach anywhere would have had any chance to have early success with. That's incorrect. But new coaches deserve time to shape things in their image and understanding if it doesn't happen right away. So we shouldn't be writing him off by any means. But when you realize how critical the next 18 months are, hot damn, this boat is taking on a lot of water and I see more holes than buckets.
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Groce left Underwood a team with a legit shot at the tournament. When Tilmon left the ceiling probably dropped to the NCAA bubble. At worst we're a bubble team this year if Underwood keeps everybody. If there's a dumpster fire it's on Underwood. I'm still bullish he can get us back on track, but he's not an elite coach. An elite coach would have elevated what he was left with instead of bulldozing it. See Lon Kruger for an example of what a truly elite coach can do with or without "his guys."
 
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#1,305      

nichi

N
nichi
Second and Chalmers said:
To be clear, you can't go into any degree of detail about this stuff publicly due to federal FERPA regulations. Kane could personally, but Underwood, Whitman, or other university personnel cannot.

Don't expect to hear any more details.
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To be clear, he was denied admission to the University. He was not ruled ineligible by the NCAA. This appears to be UI admissions rejecting a transcript. Not the NCAA Clearinghouse.
 
#1,306      

Dren1

Dren1
Glenview, IL
Dren1
Second and Chalmers said:
I mean, I don't think there's some master explanation for the whole thing necessarily. I think there have been a mix of Creanings, didn't-want-to-play-for-Underwoods, and now a grades thing.

Here's the problem. If the 2019 and 2020 classes aren't full of solid contributors, Underwood is going to fail at Illinois. No one is going to like to see it phrased that way, but that's a very reasonable, conservative, fairly obvious inference.

We have one season's worth of games that are going to be played between now and the fall signing period for that 2020 class, and the all-time program record for losses is in very serious danger for that season, in my view.

I will continue to fight back against the idea that Underwood inherited a known dumpster fire that no coach anywhere would have had any chance to have early success with. That's incorrect. But new coaches deserve time to shape things in their image and understanding if it doesn't happen right away. So we shouldn't be writing him off by any means. But when you realize how critical the next 18 months are, hot damn, this boat is taking on a lot of water and I see more holes than buckets.
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I think this is a post most all of us can agree with, particularly the bolded. I can envision some of our more unheralded recruits outperforming their rankings, but we also really need more talent on the court.
 
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#1,308      

nichi

N
nichi
illinitiger said:
Now, he appears to have a clearinghouse issue and everyone is blaming it on BU, which seems nuts to me.
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The report said he was not allowed to enroll due to a "transcript issue", not a clearinghouse issue. Obviously, he was initially accepted for admission contingent upon completing all his classes. I would assume he did so. Logically, that must mean admissions isn't accepting some classes from one of his high schools. This has happened in football and basketball in the past. Clearinghouse eligible PSAs from schools were rejected by the UI, then accepted elsewhere.

Still ridiculous to blame Coach Underwood. It does sound like he is planning going somewhere to do what is needed to fix the transcript.
 
#1,309      

UTIllini

U
UTIllini
Patience is needed..



I believe there is a plan in place and we have simply had some unforeseen situations arise ( maybe two, three or four).


I believe we have some new talent coming in that will make a difference. Talented players who want to be here.



On offense.. We will simply have to play small ball ( maybe not by choice or design but due to circumstances). While big players can create mismatches so can smaller quicker players. We would have to shoot a good percentage, but spread them out and pick the other team apart with shooting and quickness, run the other team hard, it will negate some of the height mismatches. For years I have watched us recruit pro style/ sized guards and then sat back and watched little guards abuse us.


On defense, play with good fundamentals, block out, use weak side help and quickness, that can help compensate for lack of size.


Bottom line... We need to support these kids, whomever wears the jersey. I feel the coaches have put in the work, are very good at their jobs and are going to get this program going in the right direction.



I truly hope this team surprises us.. fingers crossed..





 
#1,310      

Newman

N
Newman
nichi said:
To be clear, he was denied admission to the University. He was not ruled ineligible by the NCAA. This appears to be UI admissions rejecting a transcript. Not the NCAA Clearinghouse.
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In this case, I almost feel like that's worse.
 
#1,311      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
instead of "institutions 'lack of control"...we have a case of "institutions' over control"

hard to believe the illini registrar is more bureacratic than the NCAA.
 
#1,312      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
nichi said:
I would assume he did so.
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Why?

Isn't occam's razor here clearly that his final semester of high school grades just came out and he flunked something he needed and now has to go back and try and pass it again?

And under most versions of that story, the problem would be with BOTH UI admissions and the NCAA clearinghouse. The core class requirements are almost entirely the same.

Like I said, weave the narrative about evil UI admissions when Kane is suited up at another D1 institution. That random Quinton Watkins reference a couple pages back really drove that concept home.
 
#1,313      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
nichi said:
The report said he was not allowed to enroll due to a "transcript issue", not a clearinghouse issue. Obviously, he was initially accepted for admission contingent upon completing all his classes. I would assume he did so. Logically, that must mean admissions isn't accepting some classes from one of his high schools. This has happened in football and basketball in the past. Clearinghouse eligible PSAs from schools were rejected by the UI, then accepted elsewhere.

Still ridiculous to blame Coach Underwood. It does sound like he is planning going somewhere to do what is needed to fix the transcript.
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The idea that we should reject a handful of athletes that meet NCAA standards is deeply frustrating and incredibly ridiculous. Of course we don't know that happened in this case, but it has happened in the past.

I guess admissions doesn't want anybody to think that the U of I treats athletes differently. Maybe they think people don't notice the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on gold plated practice facilities, separate dining halls, a separate academic staff and so on.
 
#1,314      

nichi

N
nichi
Dren1 said:
I think this is a post most all of us can agree with, particularly the bolded. I can envision some of our more unheralded recruits outperforming their rankings, but we also really need more talent on the court.
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The 2018 recruiting class is better than most of the Big Ten. One guy has an admissions issue, and suddenly the sky is falling? Obviously, if they don't recruit enough good players that meet UI admissions standards; they are going to struggle to win basketball games.
 
#1,316      

Newman

N
Newman
EJ33 said:
The idea that we should reject a handful of athletes that meet NCAA standards is deeply frustrating and incredibly ridiculous. Of course we don't know that happened in this case, but it has happened in the past.

I guess admissions doesn't want anybody to think that the U of I treats athletes differently. Maybe they think people don't notice the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on gold plated practice facilities, separate dining halls, a separate academic staff and so on.
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We shouldn't assume that he's cleared by the NCAA. I would question both at this point.
 
#1,317      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
EJ33 said:
The idea that we should reject a handful of athletes that meet NCAA standards is deeply frustrating and incredibly ridiculous. Of course we don't know that happened in this case, but it has happened in the past.

I guess admissions doesn't want anybody to think that the U of I treats athletes differently. Maybe they think people don't notice the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on gold plated practice facilities, separate dining halls, a separate academic staff and so on.
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Newman said:
We shouldn't assume that he's cleared by the NCAA. I would question both at this point.
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Absolutely. Admissions may not be at fault in this case, but there is a track record of denying admissions to some athletes that are NCAA qualifiers. That's the bigger issue that I find deeply frustrating.
 
#1,318      

t7nich

t7nich
Central IL
t7nich
EJ33 said:
Absolutely. Admissions may not be at fault in this case, but there is a track record of denying admissions to some athletes that are NCAA qualifiers. That's the bigger issue that I find deeply frustrating.
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He committed in what, March? If they were sitting on the transcripts and they just now figured it out, there is some fault there. If a recent transcript was just received, different scenario. Not that it really matters at this point :tsk:
 
#1,319      

Newman

N
Newman
t7nich said:
He committed in what, March? If they were sitting on the transcripts and they just now figured it out, there is some fault there. If a recent transcript was just received, different scenario. Not that it really matters at this point :tsk:
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Well they just received final transcripts so it's not likely due to the courses from the most recent semester.
 
#1,320      

nichi

N
nichi
Second and Chalmers said:
Why?

Isn't occam's razor here clearly that his final semester of high school grades just came out and he flunked something he needed and now has to go back and try and pass it again?

And under most versions of that story, the problem would be with BOTH UI admissions and the NCAA clearinghouse. The core class requirements are almost entirely the same.

Like I said, weave the narrative about evil UI admissions when Kane is suited up at another D1 institution. That random Quinton Watkins reference a couple pages back really drove that concept home.
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We are all speculating based on the same story.

I suppose it's possible it could have been final semester grades. I would just be surprised that he'd be caught off guard by that.

One issue at UI in the past has been not accepting course work that the NCAA accepted. That would be consistent with 'transcript issues'.

In the Watkins case, the story was it was the NCAA Initial Eligibility Clearinghouse causing the hold up. In the Kane case, "is leaving campus due to transcript issues" ... "he was unable to enroll in summer courses."

Let's hope Samba Kane gets whatever it is fixed.
 
#1,321      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
EJ33 said:
Admissions may not be at fault in this case, but there is a track record of denying admissions to some athletes that are NCAA qualifiers. That's the bigger issue that I find deeply frustrating.
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That is historically true, but it's worth noting that there have been two intervening events since the heyday of that talking point.

1. As of 2016, NCAA eligibility standards have been raised. There is less daylight between the NCAA minimum and what Illinois had been seeking.

2. Illinois is not the prestige-humping institution it once was. That's a new leadership thing, that's a state politics thing, that's a modern realities of higher education thing, it's a culture of the college admissions process thing, it's a variety of reasons that the days of Nancy Cantor being desperate to cosplay that we're Michigan are over.

Doesn't mean we still not might turn down a kid that another Big Ten school would take, but it's not what it was.

nichi said:
I suppose it's possible it could have been final semester grades. I would just be surprised that he'd be caught off guard by that.

One issue at UI in the past has been not accepting course work that the NCAA accepted. That would be consistent with 'transcript issues'.
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One of those two just seems much more likely to be something that flies in out of the blue shortly after final exams for a player who signed his LOI months ago. But it's true that we're all just speculating.
 
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#1,322      

SKane

SKane
Tennessee
SKane
I wonder where Samba went. Is he staying in C-U or going out of town?
 
#1,324      

CoalCity

C
St Paul, MN
CoalCity
EJ33 said:
Groce left Underwood a team with a legit shot at the tournament. When Tilmon left the ceiling probably dropped to the NCAA bubble. At worst we're a bubble team this year if Underwood keeps everybody. If there's a dumpster fire it's on Underwood. I'm still bullish he can get us back on track, but he's not an elite coach. An elite coach would have elevated what he was left with instead of bulldozing it. See Lon Kruger for an example of what a truly elite coach can do with or without "his guys."
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LMAO so wrong on so many levels.
 
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