Illini Basketball 2018-2019

Illiniguy13 · Jun 8, 2018

AEX said:
Sure was. Did you check out the per 40 numbers I posted before? Really impressive stuff. Showed a ton of potential.

You’re an easy one to please my friend. You are correct Ebo showed promise. He improved before our eyes. But Ebo played 11 minutes a game and averaged 2 points, 2 rebounds, shot 44% from the line and didn’t display any offense whatsoever. If Ebo had a stellar freshman campaign, you may not be able to contain your excitement for Kane or Giorgi

Joseph Kerr · Jun 8, 2018

Per 40 numbers are smoke and mirror when you use a small sample size. While he showed potential, stellar wouldn't be a word to talk about someone who averaged 10 minutes a game and averaged a couple of pts a game. His defense showed promise. He would have been really solid by his JR year. He will be missed for having height and some experience already, and giving depth. I remember a kid who came in for the last 5 minutes of games in high school and stuffed stats, his per 40 would have made him look like Hakeem, when he played against the second team, got garbage baskets, etc. As a Mathematics major, let's not make this guy out to be more than what he was by comparing this. Greg's numbers did look like Nanna's which sadly Nanna didn't progress offensively but was a rim protector, Nanna had twice as many blocks as Greg his freshman year. Do I think he could have progressed to do more, of course, but now we will never know. Again, the use of the word stellar when Trent was stellar is poor word choice. Adequate perhaps yes.

clusterbuster75 · Jun 8, 2018

Geo76 said:
BU coaching mentors, Martin and Huggins, are tough, intense, demanding coaches, and BU seems to be all of that. But those guys’ “tough love” has a big love component, and their players will run through walls for them. When I saw BU on the sidelines, in timeouts and after games last year, I saw the tough, but I didn’t see the love. Without the love, tough easily equates with jerk. I wonder if this has anything to do with the defections?

Good analysis

Gotta have the love :chief:

Obelix · Jun 8, 2018

BetaSigIllini said:
Pretty tough case for Mr Battle to the best Illini 4 of all time. Heck, he wasn't even the best one named, "Kenny." Compare his numbers to Ken Norman. Except for steals his predecessor comes out well ahead. If you can count either Brian Cook or Deion Thomas as a power forward the issue is even less clear.

Actually not a very tough case to make. Battle definitely ranks higher than Norman as far as Illini career. Very few would rank Norman higher than Battle as far best Illini players. Deon Thomas was an undersized Center, but he did not play PF for the Illini. Brian Cook played both SF and PF for the Illini and is a better case, but overall Battle probably ranks higher.

The reason I said "arguably" is actually because of Nick Weatherspoon, who I never saw play live in a game, but one could make a case that he had a better career than Battle, although the intangibles and impact that Battle brought to the Flying Illini were second to none.

https://herald-review.com/sports/il...ion_7be98dfa-57ba-5552-b803-2cb6712b775f.html

Elgin7680 · Jun 8, 2018

Illiniguy13 said:
You’re an easy one to please my friend. You are correct Ebo showed promise. He improved before our eyes. But Ebo played 11 minutes a game and averaged 2 points, 2 rebounds, shot 44% from the line and didn’t display any offense whatsoever. If Ebo had a stellar freshman campaign, you may not be able to contain your excitement for Kane or Giorgi

Just think Kane or Giorgi score 4 pts a game and get 4 rebounds a game, that would be double Ebo numbers, not to mention they may have some reasonable chance at making a free throw, if that happens you better (Illiniguy13) you better get ready to jump off a building.

SescIllini · Jun 9, 2018

Ebo hurts more than any other transfers because of need. He also seemed to be a developing big 2 years down the road. We need players like that in the program since we don't recruit like Duke. To spin it otherwise is self deception.

TopOtheKey · Jun 9, 2018

Illini, I am a long time reader and 49 year fan and alumni. Thank you all for the blog.

I share many of the concerns expressed. We have high expectations. Here’s a slightly different take on rebuilding programs. First though, is the exception. A new coach to a successful program just has to be good at motivation and the x’s and o’s. Example is Harbaugh to that M school. Talent was there.

Most other rebuilds like ours requires much more. The talent and winning culture have to be installed. The new coach cannot wave a wand. He has to COACH THEM UP first. Then the talent will come.

Groce was unable to coach them up. Nothing good followed. Malcolm Hill and Egwu did improve but they were outliers. Team skills did not improve under his watch. He was unable or unwilling to adjust.

So the question is, can/has Coach Underwood begun to coach them up? Is he able? To my eye he has/is. Leron surprised us all. Frazier was fantastic. AJ and Kipper showed real flashes. Damonte was better every time he saw the floor. It’s my opinion that Finke was maxed out and there was just something odd about Smith. (I have other thoughts on him but won’t now)

The other aspect about last years team was dramatic lack of athleticism in a game demanding it. Ask yourself, did you see anyone on that team fly? I’m talking take off from the free throw line to the basket? Once? Again, AJ and Kipper are the closest. Frazier is a class A talent with speed but we were outclassed as a team.

I am as concerned as many about what appears to be a coaching style that may limit the talent pool. But the jury is still WAY out. Last years group played tough. They were fun to watch most games. Underwood had to “flog the horse” pretty hard to get it to compete.

We must see individual improvement far beyond last year. My hope is we do. COACH THEM UP! :chief:

Captain Bubbles · Jun 9, 2018

TopOtheKey said:
Illini, I am a long time reader and 49 year fan and alumni. Thank you all for the blog.

I share many of the concerns expressed. We have high expectations. Here’s a slightly different take on rebuilding programs. First though, is the exception. A new coach to a successful program just has to be good at motivation and the x’s and o’s. Example is Harbaugh to that M school. Talent was there.

Most other rebuilds like ours requires much more. The talent and winning culture have to be installed. The new coach cannot wave a wand. He has to COACH THEM UP first. Then the talent will come.

Groce was unable to coach them up. Nothing good followed. Malcolm Hill and Egwu did improve but they were outliers. Team skills did not improve under his watch. He was unable or unwilling to adjust.

So the question is, can/has Coach Underwood begun to coach them up? Is he able? To my eye he has/is. Leron surprised us all. Frazier was fantastic. AJ and Kipper showed real flashes. Damonte was better every time he saw the floor. It’s my opinion that Finke was maxed out and there was just something odd about Smith. (I have other thoughts on him but won’t now)

The other aspect about last years team was dramatic lack of athleticism in a game demanding it. Ask yourself, did you see anyone on that team fly? I’m talking take off from the free throw line to the basket? Once? Again, AJ and Kipper are the closest. Frazier is a class A talent with speed but we were outclassed as a team.

I am as concerned as many about what appears to be a coaching style that may limit the talent pool. But the jury is still WAY out. Last years group played tough. They were fun to watch most games. Underwood had to “flog the horse” pretty hard to get it to compete.

We must see individual improvement far beyond last year. My hope is we do. COACH THEM UP!

This is a good post here.

Second and Chalmers · Jun 9, 2018

TopOtheKey said:
The other aspect about last years team was dramatic lack of athleticism in a game demanding it. Ask yourself, did you see anyone on that team fly? I’m talking take off from the free throw line to the basket? Once? Again, AJ and Kipper are the closest. Frazier is a class A talent with speed but we were outclassed as a team.

Giorgi, Griffin, Feliz and yes, Ayo are all minus athletes in the explosiveness sense you're talking about. And Kane is a long way from having his bounciness play on the offensive end.

RIVERCITYCHIEF · Jun 9, 2018

Second and Chalmers said:
Giorgi, Griffin, Feliz and yes, Ayo are all minus athletes in the explosiveness sense you're talking about. And Kane is a long way from having his bounciness play on the offensive end.

They are not elite in explosiveness but that is so overblown! How explosive is CP3 or Steph Curry? How explosive was Loyola's entire team? I would much prefer good explosiveness and excellent hand eye coordination. Something both CP3 and Curry have. SCUMS entire team can shoot the ball, dribble, and pass and sure a few are explosive. Sure they need some ability to be explosive but give me hand eye coordination, quickness, agility first I think our current recruits have that, those that transferred didnt. dont feel like players the cant dribble well or make a shot outside of 5 feet or 44% from the line whether they can jjump.or not is something we can win with. We have had to many PG and others positions lacked the depth perception of hand eye coordination that couldnt shoot. If players have some strength and can jump bn ok and get good positioning they rebound just fine.

Rap73 · Jun 9, 2018

Is there anyone on this board who has seen any of the new recruits play a game? We have no idea how good these players will be. Everyone on here thought Mark Smith was going to be the second coming of Deron. All the negative comments are only a detriment to the program. Be positive and support our Illini.

nwebb1 · Jun 9, 2018

RIVERCITYCHIEF said:
They are not elite in explosiveness but that is so overblown! How explosive is CP3 or Steph Curry? How explosive was Loyola's entire team? I would much prefer good explosiveness and excellent hand eye coordination. Something both CP3 and Curry have. SCUMS entire team can shoot the ball, dribble, and pass and sure a few are explosive. Sure they need some ability to be explosive but give me hand eye coordination, quickness, agility first I think our current recruits have that, those that transferred didnt. dont feel like players the cant dribble well or make a shot outside of 5 feet or 44% from the line whether they can jjump.or not is something we can win with. We have had to many PG and others positions lacked the depth perception of hand eye coordination that couldnt shoot. If players have some strength and can jump bn ok and get good positioning they rebound just fine.

CP3 can fly vertically when he wants to get up. He threw down a massive dunk on Dwight Howard a few years agi

Second and Chalmers · Jun 9, 2018

jcgoldie said:
Ayo may not play above the rim, but calling him a "minus athlete" seems tremendously harsh to me. :noidea: I say this despite the knowledge that defining "athleticism" is a morass from which we will never escape...

Yeah, that’s why I qualified it. Ayo is very quick with a lightning first step, which combined with his length makes him tough to keep away from the rim and tough to get to the rim against. He does it a different way than a pogo stick-type. Ayo’s a stud.

But I was reponding to a post talking about bouncy athletes launching from the free throw line. Other people have been talking about length to defend the rim and clog passing lanes. I agree that both traits are a match for the Underwood system. But the roster today is not really an upgrade on the one he inherited by either measure. The moves don’t point toward the purported plan. That’s my whole thing here.

Illinibatt · Jun 9, 2018

Rap73 said:
Is there anyone on this board who has seen any of the new recruits play a game? We have no idea how good these players will be. Everyone on here thought Mark Smith was going to be the second coming of Deron. All the negative comments are only a detriment to the program. Be positive and support our Illini.

I've seen some of the new recruits play a game.
We have some idea how good these players will be.
I did not think Mark Smith was going to be the second coming of Deron.
Negative comments are not the problem.
Every fan base is critical.
Kansas State and Loyola-Chicago wanted to fire their coaches a year ago.

And nobody should be positive about a program with 6 incoming new players and 3 open scholarship slots in mid-June.
That would be irrational.

TopOtheKey · Jun 9, 2018

Athleticism is a great topic. My opinion is it is not one thing, but manifests differently in each human and differently by position. We all probably think of Michael Jordan and LeBron as the ultimate. But a post with a speedy spin and up and under move is beautifully athletic. A 2 guard with a quick crossover move and jumper is athletic. Jordan Murphy at MN is aggressively athletic. And I agree Stef Curry is not very athletic in any regard but is quick enough to get his shot off. Everyone on a team doesn’t have to fly but the pieces have to work.

We are not at a place as yet where OUR incoming 18 year olds are mature enough to impress physically. It will be a mixed bag for a while. This all gets back to the coaches ability to COACH!

IlliniJim20 · Jun 9, 2018

Joel Goodson said:
Maybe Kane is better than Ebo. I certainly hope so. But Kane isn't going to play 30 minutes, much less 40. We have a gaping void at the 5. I'm not flipping out, but our staff needs to fill that void rather quickly. I'm hopeful that they will do just that.

Great post "Joel.". Sums up the issues on both sides of the debate IMHO without being a chicken little, nor a Pollyanna :thumb:

We do need help,mpositinless basketball or not. Many were looking for depth help even WITH the incoming freshmen AND Ebo staying.

RIVERCITYCHIEF · Jun 9, 2018

nwebb1 said:
CP3 can fly vertically when he wants to get up. He threw down a massive dunk on Dwight Howard a few years agi

Not at an elite level, no he cant. CP3 would never be considered for a dunk contest and that is fine.I went to high school with one of the most explosive athletes out country has ever known. He played at basketball at KState, was 6'1" and at one time high jumped 7'7" 1/4. Tyke held out countries record.Tyke Peacick from Urbana was the best dunker of a basketball I've ever seen bar none but for all of that elite explosiveness did not make him someone I'd want to start of the Illini. Our recruits have enough of all of the skills that it takes to be a very good. I want shooters, passers. Ball handlers, and guys that play smart, to their strengths, fast, agile and get position and are explosive enough. Elite explosiveness is very rare and not as important. Our guys now are better than in the past few years at that.

PtownIllini8 · Jun 9, 2018

Second and Chalmers said:
Giorgi, Griffin, Feliz and yes, Ayo are all minus athletes in the explosiveness sense you're talking about. And Kane is a long way from having his bounciness play on the offensive end.

Leaping ability is only one sign of athleticism. Lateral quickness and straight speed matter too. Having a 6'8" reach doesn't hurt either! BTW, have you seen any of these guys play in person?

RIVERCITYCHIEF · Jun 9, 2018

Second and Chalmers said:
Yeah, that’s why I qualified it. Ayo is very quick with a lightning first step, which combined with his length makes him tough to keep away from the rim and tough to get to the rim against. He does it a different way than a pogo stick-type. Ayo’s a stud.

But I was reponding to a post talking about bouncy athletes launching from the free throw line. Other people have been talking about length to defend the rim and clog passing lanes. I agree that both traits are a match for the Underwood system. But the roster today is not really an upgrade on the one he inherited by either measure. The moves don’t point toward the purported plan. That’s my whole thing here.

I think the moves do point towards a plan Geo is certainly more adapt st handling the ball, moving, shooting at all levels and the line and has a frame that can carry 250lbs soon according to BU.
Kane appears to have a back to that basket game and is a rim protector.
Both players move better that previous bigs did and have new skill sets out past bigs didnt.

Our wings are much different than JT, past transfers in and out. All of our new guards have skills we havent here in a while. At least not until TF arrived. All our wings can shoot and must be guarded. They also have more length and it appears can all defend Nothing was more frustrating that guys sagging off our PGs daring them to shoot and most of them when they drove struggled to finish at the rim. Theres definitely a plan and differences in these players.

dbeaverfg · Jun 9, 2018

Obelix said:
Actually not a very tough case to make. Battle definitely ranks higher than Norman as far as Illini career. Very few would rank Norman higher than Battle as far best Illini players. Deon Thomas was an undersized Center, but he did not play PF for the Illini. Brian Cook played both SF and PF for the Illini and is a better case, but overall Battle probably ranks higher.

The reason I said "arguably" is actually because of Nick Weatherspoon, who I never saw play live in a game, but one could make a case that he had a better career than Battle, although the intangibles and impact that Battle brought to the Flying Illini were second to none.

https://herald-review.com/sports/il...ion_7be98dfa-57ba-5552-b803-2cb6712b775f.html

I did see both Spoon and Battle play and I would pick Spoon any day of the week. In almost the same amount of games (69 vs. 71) Battle averaged 16.1 PPG, 5.2 RPG. Spoon averaged 20.9 PPG and 11.3 RPG. The only place Battle might have had the advantage was in steals (no stats I can find for Spoon. People forget how good Spoon really was.

Second and Chalmers · Jun 9, 2018

RIVERCITYCHIEF said:
All our wings can shoot and must be guarded.

Put it this way, none of our wings projects to be a better shooter than Mark Alstork did last year.

I am a firm DaMonte believer and Tevian Jones optimist, but you can't just say something like the quoted as if it's a known fact. It's not.

This team no longer has known facts until it actually takes the floor.

I would agree that on net, the players we have coming in are a better shooting group than those we've lost, but if the minutes break down in a way that Ayo and Kane get the most minutes of the newcomers (likely), then that effect is minimized.

IllFanInMi · Jun 9, 2018

IMHO, there is NO question losing Ebo diminishes the overall talent and depth of this team. To me it matters very little what Ebos stat lines were, it is safe to say he provided much more to the team and things that don’t always show up in the box score. If we are all honest here, he exceeded the overwhelming majority of our expectations, and I was excited to see bigger and better things from him this year. Was he ever going to turn into Hakeem down low, or be able to space the floor with an extended jumper, very likely not, but he brought a skill set that works well for this system. Given our lack of bigs, he meant much more to THIS team than teams with depth.

Will we find someone who can fill his shoes in all areas, will the two coming in make up for his loss? I hope so. I’m also very excited about whose coming and what we are returning in the back court; no doubt we should be able to stretch the floor better, which is the most effective way to combat size. However; I said this last year, this is the BIG and like the undersized heavyweight, the big boy usually wears him down over the course of the fight. No way around it, we need at a minimum a banger and foul eater who plays good interior defense; we just can’t win a lot of games allowing teams to score at such a high percentage 10’ and in! Unless we are near the top of the country shooting the three, offensive efficiency, steals, free throw differential, on and on!

RIVERCITYCHIEF · Jun 9, 2018

Second and Chalmers said:
Put it this way, none of our wings projects to be a better shooter than Mark Alstork did last year.

I am a firm DaMonte believer and Tevian Jones optimist, but you can't just say something like the quoted as if it's a known fact. It's not.

This team no longer has known facts until it actually takes the floor.

I would agree that on net, the players we have coming in are a better shooting group than those we've lost, but if the minutes break down in a way that Ayo and Kane get the most minutes of the newcomers (likely), then that effect is minimized.

Your right we really dont know what to expect from the freshman until they hit the floor. Mark Smith was a good example of that. However, I never expected JT, Tejon, or Ebo to be shooters based on thier past. I do however expect Feliz, TF. AND Jordan to shoot it well because I've seen it. Feliz has played B10 level talent before and has shot and played well. As for the freshmen I think Griffin will be able to shoot very well. I hope Ayp does but either way he I'd bet he will do it well enough to be closely guarded as did Alstork. JT and Lucas and other transfers at the point other than Sam all were dared to shoot, were not closely guarded and it hurt us. B10 level guards must art the very least be respected to some degree as a shooter. Thqt hasn't been the case for a while until TF. It's a huge difference in what BU is requiring from our wings. He mentioned Michigan and Nova as examples of how he wants shooters and passers. I see that as a clear difference. Our guards wont ve sagged off and dared to shoot anymore. Do you honestly think they will? I don't I see a difference.
Thanks Dan for the site. Omw to Wrigley for the weekend and this made the ride fly by. ..Go Illini!

jmilt7 · Jun 9, 2018

Tacomallini said:
Just getting caught up on Loyalty, so forgive if this has already been shared. Did you see a BU interview posted somewhere about Ebo leaving?

If I understand your question correctly, to the best of my knowledge there has been no video or anything else posted officially that would explain why he is transferring.

GForce · Jun 9, 2018

Second and Chalmers said:
Put it this way, none of our wings projects to be a better shooter than Mark Alstork did last year.

I am a firm DaMonte believer and Tevian Jones optimist, but you can't just say something like the quoted as if it's a known fact. It's not.

This team no longer has known facts until it actually takes the floor.

And it's not just the fact that they're freshmen adjusting to a huge bump in expectations, game speed and screaming fans, but how they'll react to Underwood's system and coaching style.

Illini Basketball 2018-2019

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