Illini Basketball 2018-2019

Tevo · Aug 30, 2018

TCTORNADO said:
I think we are way undervaluing the Master's degree at UI vs undergrad degree with regards to future earnings power. The biggest thing was the Master's degree was going to be free. He clearly should have stayed.

Someone should (maybe already has?) interview Deon Thomas and get the details on the realistic scenarios for Big Ten Starter-level players' prospects in Europe. What is the range of salaries for non-EuroLeague players? What are the costs? What are the perspectives from those players 2, 4 or 6 years down the line? How did they feel when they left school, how was the transition.

As a related question: Do players often leave early to go to Europe? I can't recall that ever happening before at Illinois, but maybe at other schools.

ChiefIllini · Aug 30, 2018

I think this team will be just fine without Black. He was fun to watch offensively, appreciate he put in the work he did.

rcjord1 · Aug 30, 2018

Tevo said:
Also, I don't know the details of that particular league, but many European leagues provide living accommodations and car rentals, significantly reducing the cost of living. He may be able to bank almost everything he makes, which helps.

Yes. all those are included

rcjord1 · Aug 30, 2018

Tevo said:
Someone should (maybe already has?) interview Deon Thomas and get the details on the realistic scenarios for Big Ten Starter-level players' prospects in Europe. What is the range of salaries for non-EuroLeague players? What are the costs? What are the perspectives from those players 2, 4 or 6 years down the line? How did they feel when they left school, how was the transition.

As a related question: Do players often leave early to go to Europe? I can't recall that ever happening before at Illinois, but maybe at other schools.

Remember..Leron did graduate and had started his master's......so I wouldnt say "he left early" yes he did have another year of eligibility but I struggle with saying he left early.

Spoon House · Aug 30, 2018

rcjord1 said:
If you understand the time value of money, it makes sense to me. Leron is playing in Israel's 2nd Div (lets assume he makes 3000 a month/10 months) How much would he have made staying at Illinois? Yes, he would have probably put up some good numbers in his final year but there are only 60 slots in the NBA draft ( of which 35 or so are almost guaranteed money) Playing in Israel's 2nd div gives him a shot at 1st Div (more money) because he is already there. If he had stayed at Illinois you could make the argument that he could have made 1st Div (with some good numbers) but he would not have 30K tax free money in the bank and a shot at 1st Div. He is in fact 20-30K richer taking the route he took. Time value of money. If he does well in Israel, there's always a chance to make it back to the G-League/NBA

That's a good perspective I wouldn't usually have the tools to draw. Thanks for taking the time to lay that down.

I admit my thoughts are affected by how much I wanted to see another year of LB on the floor for the O&B. Obviously LB has to do what's best for LB.

rcjord1 · Aug 30, 2018

Tevo said:
Someone should (maybe already has?) interview Deon Thomas and get the details on the realistic scenarios for Big Ten Starter-level players' prospects in Europe. What is the range of salaries for non-EuroLeague players? What are the costs? What are the perspectives from those players 2, 4 or 6 years down the line? How did they feel when they left school, how was the transition.

As a related question: Do players often leave early to go to Europe? I can't recall that ever happening before at Illinois, but maybe at other schools.

https://workonyourgameu.com/obbcourse you dont have to buy it but you can read the pdf and it will answer all those questions.

rcjord1 · Aug 30, 2018

Spoon House said:
That's a good perspective I wouldn't usually have the tools to draw. Thanks for taking the time to lay that down.

I admit my thoughts are affected by how much I wanted to see another year of LB on the floor for the O&B. Obviously LB has to do what's best for LB.

absolutly

Obelix · Aug 30, 2018

rcjord1 said:
If he had stayed at Illinois you could make the argument that he could have made 1st Div (with some good numbers) but he would not have 30K tax free money in the bank and a shot at 1st Div.

The European leagues and Israel do not allow for tax free money, it is against the law and a common misconception. That was something that was done/allowed back when professionals were not allowed in the Olympics and international competition. Now all professional contracts are taxable. Any foreign income earned from sports abroad is also reported on tax returns in the US, although tax-treaties prevent double taxation.

Actionjackson · Aug 30, 2018

rcjord1 said:
absolutly

Thanks Rob...got any AJ practice vids?

I love showing my 3 boys what it looks like to put in work!

Sal Iacuzzo · Aug 30, 2018

Tevo said:
Someone should (maybe already has?) interview Deon Thomas and get the details on the realistic scenarios for Big Ten Starter-level players' prospects in Europe. What is the range of salaries for non-EuroLeague players? What are the costs? What are the perspectives from those players 2, 4 or 6 years down the line? How did they feel when they left school, how was the transition.

As a related question: Do players often leave early to go to Europe? I can't recall that ever happening before at Illinois, but maybe at other schools.

Terrence Oglesby at Clemson and Erazem Lorbeck at MSU both left with eligibility remaining. There are a lot of others that I have done it as well.

Obelix · Aug 30, 2018

Sal Iacuzzo said:
Terrence Oglesby at Clemson and Erazem Lorbeck at MSU both left with eligibility remaining. There are a lot of others that I have done it as well.

Once a player decides to leave school and does not get drafted, there are not many other avenues to continue to play basketball. So while the money for most is not that good (e.g., Black) there are not many other options if you want to continue to play.

Both Oglesby and Lorbek were born in Europe though, so the transition is much easier. Most of the Europeans do return, a lot of them early, they are more in demand as the do not count against the quota of non-European players, a huge advantage.

TCTORNADO · Aug 30, 2018

Obelix said:
Once a player decides to leave school and does not get drafted, there are not many other avenues to continue to play basketball. So while the money for most is not that good (e.g., Black) there are not many other options if you want to continue to play.

Both Oglesby and Lorbek were born in Europe though, so the transition is much easier. Most of the Europeans do return, a lot of them early, they are more in demand as the do not count against the quota of non-European players, a huge advantage.

Matic Vesel returned early.

Obelix · Aug 30, 2018

TCTORNADO said:
Matic Vesel returned early.

Luther head might have even paid for his ticket

rcjord1 · Aug 30, 2018

Actionjackson said:
Thanks Rob...got any AJ practice vids? I love showing my 3 boys what it looks like to put in work!

Youtube search "rcjord1"

Newman · Aug 30, 2018

Obelix said:
Once a player decides to leave school and does not get drafted, there are not many other avenues to continue to play basketball. So while the money for most is not that good (e.g., Black) there are not many other options if you want to continue to play.

Both Oglesby and Lorbek were born in Europe though, so the transition is much easier. Most of the Europeans do return, a lot of them early, they are more in demand as the do not count against the quota of non-European players, a huge advantage.

https://eiupanthers.com/news/2018/8...s-sign-professional-basketball-contracts.aspx

I've heard you say this many times but there are a lot of players, even average ones, that end up playing professionally overseas. They might not get rich doing it but if they can continue to play and make a living, that's considered making it. A lot of us on here think of it from a privileged and narrow mindset but a lot of these guys grew up in poverty and dream of getting paid to play basketball. I think most of them are okay with holding off on a white collar desk job.

Obelix · Aug 30, 2018

Newman said:
https://eiupanthers.com/news/2018/8...s-sign-professional-basketball-contracts.aspx

I've heard you say this many times but there are a lot of players, even average ones, that end up playing professionally overseas. They might not get rich doing it but if they can continue to play and make a living, that's considered making it. A lot of us on here think of it from a privileged and narrow mindset but a lot of these guys grew up in poverty and dream of getting paid to play basketball. I think most of them are okay with holding off on a white collar desk job.

That's exactly what I am saying. Once you leave college, there are not many other avenues if you want to continue to play. The money may not be good (e.g., Black, EIU players, most of the others) but there are simply not many other options if you want to continue to play ball.

Obelix · Aug 30, 2018

Newman said:
https://eiupanthers.com/news/2018/8...s-sign-professional-basketball-contracts.aspx

I've heard you say this many times but there are a lot of players, even average ones, that end up playing professionally overseas. They might not get rich doing it but if they can continue to play and make a living, that's considered making it. A lot of us on here think of it from a privileged and narrow mindset but a lot of these guys grew up in poverty and dream of getting paid to play basketball. I think most of them are okay with holding off on a white collar desk job.

A couple of relevant posts on Black and European leagues and salaries from back in March.

https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forum/threads/leron-black.24403/page-2#post-1381346

https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forum/threads/leron-black.24403/page-3#post-1381356

Illinibatt · Aug 31, 2018

Our frontcourt situation is terrifying.
Hard to predict anything since none of these guys have played college basketball before.
But if I had to guess logically what is going happen, I'm guessing other college frontcourts are going to destroy us.
I don't see how anyone could predict anything else at this point?

tpbradley · Aug 31, 2018

Illinibatt said:
Our frontcourt situation is terrifying.
Hard to predict anything since none of these guys have played college basketball before.
But if I had to guess logically what is going happen, I'm guessing other college frontcourts are going to destroy us.
I don't see how anyone could predict anything else at this point?

They will in the beginning but after some life lessons intermingled with comic relief, we end up winning the Big tourney to sneak into the NCAA tournament. It’s here where, in the championship game with 2 seconds left, we will run “the annexation of Puerto Rico” to win it all.

Jodie Harrison Remembered · Aug 31, 2018

Illinibatt said:
Our frontcourt situation is terrifying.
Hard to predict anything since none of these guys have played college basketball before.
But if I had to guess logically what is going happen, I'm guessing other college frontcourts are going to destroy us.
I don't see how anyone could predict anything else at this point?

I believe Frazier has played a year of college basketball, Feliz has played two years of Juco and internationally for the Dominican Republic, and Dosunmu has played internationally. Maybe we should wait and see what will happen instead of jumping to a dire assumption.

Illinibatt · Aug 31, 2018

Jodie Harrison Remembered said:
I believe Frazier has played a year of college basketball, Feliz has played two years of Juco and internationally for the Dominican Republic, and Dosunmu has played internationally. Maybe we should wait and see what will happen instead of jumping to a dire assumption.

I'm talking about Bez, Kane, Higgs, De La Rosa not the guards/wings.
I'm ok with the guards/wings.

Jodie Harrison Remembered · Aug 31, 2018

Illinibatt said:
I'm talking about Bez, Kane, Higgs, De La Rosa not the guards/wings.
I'm ok with the guards/wings.

My bad, however I think the front court will be better as the season goes along. Black and Finke were not strong defensively or physical as rebounders. Hopefully the new players will develop in both areas as the season progresses.

Ga65 · Aug 31, 2018

Black went from 6.5 ppg to 16.4 last year. Is it more of a stretch for Kipper to go from 9.7 to 16? Will he be a worse defensive player? Can Giorgio match Finke? Kane match Ebo? DeLaRosa add anything? I agree our front court is the weakness, just not sure it is worse than last year and the backcourt is significantly better IMO. We'll see!

Berg88 · Aug 31, 2018

Illinibatt said:
Our frontcourt situation is terrifying.
Hard to predict anything since none of these guys have played college basketball before.
But if I had to guess logically what is going happen, I'm guessing other college frontcourts are going to destroy us.
I don't see how anyone could predict anything else at this point?

You have to have some really wild expectations for the true freshmen this year.

Newman · Aug 31, 2018

Ga65 said:
Black went from 6.5 ppg to 16.4 last year. Is it more of a stretch for Kipper to go from 9.7 to 16? Will he be a worse defensive player? Can Giorgio match Finke? Kane match Ebo? DeLaRosa add anything? I agree our front court is the weakness, just not sure it is worse than last year and the backcourt is significantly better IMO. We'll see!

It's probably a stretch but not completely unrealistic for Kipper to have similar growth now with the hole that was left. However, it's a bigger stretch to expect all of that to pan out. That being said, we don't need all of those guys to replace the old group. Offensively, there's a small chance that the newcomers will replace the offensive production of the old frontcourt, but the backcourt will help with that. The frontcourt has the potential to be better defensively, but that always seems to be the biggest learning curve with freshmen so it is could be a stretch to expect them to be better defensively from the get-go. They certainly can be worse defensively despite how bad we were last year. So long story short, our frontcourt could be worse on offense and defense. It's a huge red flag until they prove otherwise.