Illini Basketball 2020-2021

Status
Not open for further replies.
#76      
At best. The qualities he needs to show, he hasn't. If anything, he's regressed a bit from last season. Lotta season left, but, at this point, he'd be better off coming back.
I agree he’d likely benefit from another year, but not sure I’d agree that he’s regressed. Most of his stats are up and he’s added a little short jumper that he rarely if ever shot last year — at least successfully. Still doesn’t shoot it too much, but had looked quite smooth when he does.

I highly doubt he’ll be back. And depending what the draft crop looks like this year, I’m not sure I’d advise him to come back depending on what his family/financial situation is. It’s not like the only place he can develop further is in college.
 
#77      
At best. The qualities he needs to show, he hasn't. If anything, he's regressed a bit from last season. Lotta season left, but, at this point, he'd be better off coming back.
I believe he's better off coming back from an NBA perspective, but i really have a hard time thinking he regressed.

He is averaging 22 and 12 in conference play this year on 67% from the field.

LY in conference he averaged 12 and 8 and didnt even hit 50% from the field.

He's only playing 1MPG more in b10 play so far.
 
#78      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
I believe he's better off coming back from an NBA perspective, but i really have a hard time thinking he regressed.

He is averaging 22 and 12 in conference play this year on 67% from the field.

LY in conference he averaged 12 and 8 and didnt even hit 50% from the field.

He's only playing 1MPG more in b10 play so far.

Statistically, Kofi's been better than last season, no doubt. But from an NBA perspective, he has shown little of the progression they want to see. Feasting on over matched D1 ceiling players is expected. Kofi mishandles incoming passes too frequently, needs to understand when he can bring the ball down low and has his shot blocked far too often. Bit of an explosion issue there. Furthermore, he really hasn't expanded his range (not that that's something Underwood is pressing for).

Readily admit that regressed was an over step.
 
#79      
Statistically, Kofi's been better than last season, no doubt. But from an NBA perspective, he has shown little of the progression they want to see. Feasting on over matched D1 ceiling players is expected. Kofi mishandles incoming passes too frequently, needs to understand when he can bring the ball down low and has his shot blocked far too often. Bit of an explosion issue there. Furthermore, he really hasn't expanded his range (not that that's something Underwood is pressing for).

Readily admit that regressed was an over step.
It blows my mind how he can possibly get blocked form behind. I cant believe with his strength that he cant go up strong & jam the ball through the hoop.
 
#80      
Can the staff have their primary "recruiting focus" right now on the current roster and selling Damonte and Trent on a Masters degree and one more year of college bball?

If we could bring those two back, Adam makes the progress forward we all know is there, alongside Curbelo and Giorgi, add in Hawkins, Grandison, Hutch?, Ben, Hamlin, with Goode knocking down shots. That roster looks like another top 25 to me. That's without considering who might enter the portal that could add to the roster.

Bring this thought full circle, would be thrilled if DMW and TF decided to make one more run at Mizzou and the rest of the conference!
 
#81      
Bring this thought full circle, would be thrilled if DMW and TF decided to make one more run at Mizzou and the rest of the conference!
If DMW continues to shoot the 3 well this year, he should go pro. It will be the best negotiating position he is going to get. Coming back has no career upside.
 
#82      
If Kofi could make 50% of 10 foot jump shots, would people want him to stay 10 feet from basket or in the paint? It is pretty easy for me to want him near the rim.
 
#83      

sacraig

The desert
If Kofi could make 50% of 10 foot jump shots, would people want him to stay 10 feet from basket or in the paint? It is pretty easy for me to want him near the rim.

Right. For all we know he's a 50% shooter now from 10 feet, but he is 65.7% from (mostly) point blank this year, so I'd rather him keep playing down low for sure. It's simple math.
 
#84      
has his shot blocked far too often. Bit of an explosion issue there.

I was thinking about this a couple games back -- Kofi may actually be too big for his own good. Too much muscle can sometimes -- not in all cases -- limit one's explosiveness and agility. I wonder if shedding 10-15 lbs (he'd still be a massive imposing human) would help him slam a few more home.
 
#86      
If Kofi could make 50% of 10 foot jump shots, would people want him to stay 10 feet from basket or in the paint? It is pretty easy for me to want him near the rim.
If you switch that from 10 feet to 15 or 20 feet, then the answer is probably different. If it's as you have it, then the answer is in the paint.
Right. For all we know he's a 50% shooter now from 10 feet, but he is 65.7% from (mostly) point blank this year, so I'd rather him keep playing down low for sure. It's simple math.
Alluded to above...10 feet is probably too short a distance to have any impact and would need to be 15 feet or more, but the math isn't that simple. You'd need to account for any changes in shooting percentages amongst teammates if Kofi can hit that midrange and consistently drag his defender away from the paint (whether actually shooting the ball or not). If Kofi shooting a 15-footer at 50% means he can spot up there and his 6'10"+ defender has to stay glued to him rather than block shots at the rim, then that may increase the finishing percentages of our guards at the rim. So the question becomes does the percentage increase amongst the rest of the team outweigh the decreased efficiency of Kofi's shot profile.
 
#89      
#90      
I was thinking about this a couple games back -- Kofi may actually be too big for his own good. Too much muscle can sometimes -- not in all cases -- limit one's explosiveness and agility. I wonder if shedding 10-15 lbs (he'd still be a massive imposing human) would help him slam a few more home.
Sure, if Kofi lost 15 lbs, he might be better, but weight used to be an issue we heard about coming into Kofi's freshman year. He has worked hard to make that not a problem. Kofi is shredded and I don't feel like he could lose much weight.
 
#91      
Was wondering how too freshman are faring this year...
I think Curbelo holding his own with the rest of them, but not listed. Most on list are higher scorers/reb big men I think. Think it might be a weekly post but not sure.
Hunter Dickinson Michigan only BIG frosh on list.
 
#92      

Deleted member 29907

D
Guest
Hunter Dickinson Michigan only BIG frosh on list.
Harder to be a PG and get as much of the accolades for something like this (clearly they are ignoring his APG - which really should be adjusted for minutes played). This and the Big 10 snubs should keep him motivated.
 
#94      
Harder to be a PG and get as much of the accolades for something like this (clearly they are ignoring his APG - which really should be adjusted for minutes played). This and the Big 10 snubs should keep him motivated.
That article is from Dec 22 — before Curbelo’s last two games. If it is weekly piece, new one would be out today and wouldn’t be surprised to see Curbelo’s name on it. It does seem to be weighted toward top pro prospects this year and very highly rated coming in, so might take another good week to be included.
 
#95      
That article is from Dec 22 — before Curbelo’s last two games. If it is weekly piece, new one would be out today and wouldn’t be surprised to see Curbelo’s name on it. It does seem to be weighted toward top pro prospects this year and very highly rated coming in, so might take another good week to be included.

Not yet...and some have not played for a bit/ or against conference foes. Does seem like an odd article....why not add players actually playing??? Switch it up for a few weeks. Mentioned high ranking in plays a role.
 
#96      
I don't disagree that we have had some under achievers. However I have constantly questioned how we have played some of these players. There is no way we shouldn't have gotten more out of Jeremy Richmond. You cannot sit him behind Bill Cole and expect to win in the big ten. Also, Michael Henry really developed his game after he transferred to DePaul. When did he ever get a real chance at Illinois. I would remind you that if he could have gotten more time with Richardson and Paul he could have made a real difference. All he ever got was a few minutes here or there. Alan Griffin is going to haunt us this year. Look at the numbers he is putting up on a pretty good team (Syracuse) because he is getting playing time. I know Adam Miller is supposed to be a future NBA player, but this year there is no comparison between him and Griffin. So some of our fans can say what they want, but we have had some players that were never put in the position to get the most out of them. Also, in today's game I saw where one of our fans complained about Hawkins having trouble guarding Harper Jr. They said he couldn't stay in front of him. (1) Hawkins is just a freshman and Harper is one of the best offensive players in the Big Ten if not the country,. (2) Harper had 6 points in the first half and not all of them were against Hawkins. He scored over 20 the second half while Hawkins never got off the bench. We need to get more playing time for players that have the potential to make a real difference. I do feel that Underwood is doing a better job this year in getting Curbelo minutes. A lot of fans had him way down the chart for playing time, but this kid is a real gamer. I have yet to see anyone prevent him from getting into the lane.

I know you said there's no comparison between Adam Miller and Alan Griffin but just for S&!ts and giggles let's compare them anyway. Here are there respective stats:

PLAYERMINPTS3PA3PMREB (/40min)AST / TOAST (/40min)TO (/40min)STL (/40min)
Alan Griffin
226​
116​
49​
19​
53 (9.4)​
0.955​
21 (3.7)22 (3.9)
8 (1.4)​
Adam Miller
248​
88​
47​
16​
17 (2.7)​
0.750​
9 (1.5)12 (1.9)
7 (1.1)​

Right now Griffin is shooting 38.8% from 3 and Miller is shooting 34%. However, the sample size is still low and if Miller were to make his next 3 shots he would have 19 of 50 attempts compared to Griffin's 19 of 49 attempts. So at this stage in the season it's too early to tell who the better 3-point shooter is, although Griffin has a slight lead.

Both players are a liability with AST / TO ratios under 1.0 but Griffin is averaging 3.9 TO/40MIN while Miller is only averaging 1.9 TO/40MIN. Also, since turnovers tend to lead to fast break / higher percentage shots from your opponents they tend to hurt a team more than an assist helps. Therefore, I'd give Miller the slight edge here due to the better ball control and significantly fewer turnovers.

Alan Griffin has 53 Rebounds for Syracuse which is impressive, and he's almost certainly a better rebounder than Adam Miller but he's also not playing alongside Kofi Cockburn (99 REB), Ayo Dosunmu (72 REB), or Da'Monte (52 REB) anymore. Alan Griffin's 53 Rebounds are 18.4% of Syracuse's team rebounds but when Alan was on the Illini roster he only brought down 10.4% of the team boards. While he may have improved, it's likely that a big part of his increase in rebounds is due to a decrease in team ability to rebound. That being said, Alan showed he's an elite rebounder last year and Miller hasn't shown a knack for it yet so this one clearly goes to Griffin.

What's not shown on the stat sheet is defensive ability and I think that in that category Adam Miller is Alan Griffin's equal. I'll admit I've only watched 2 Syracuse games this season but what I saw seems to be pretty similar to the defense he was playing at Illinois which was mostly good, but not great. Both players also have approximately the same number of steals. If NCAA basketball tracked which player allowed the opponents points it would be easier to identify defensive ability, but for now based on the eye test alone I'd call this a tie.

Ultimately, I'm not at all surprised Griffin transferred. Syracuse is clearly willing to play him 32.3 minutes per game despite his team high 3.1 turnover per game and <1 AST/TO ratio which has allowed Griffin to increase his scoring to 16.6 points per game even though his scoring per minute has effectively not changed from when he played with Illinois (0.514 pts/min now vs. 0.492 pts/min last season). At the end of the day, Griffin looks to be the same player he was on the Illini team last year - and to be fair that's not a bad thing. I think we'd have another 1-2 wins this season if we had Griffin on our roster and we'd probably still be locked in as a Top 5 team with a better chance at winning it all this season. However, Griffin's role would have been very similar to what he had last season with ~20 minutes per game, even if he was in our starting lineup. Maybe Griffin would have started over Miller, but I think the expectation would be that Miller would be a serious threat to take that starting role from Griffin and Griffin was looking to go somewhere that his place in the starting line-up was more secure.

In terms of comparison with Miller (freshmen) and Griffin (Junior), Griffin is currently the better player, but that's not so surprising considering we're only about 1/3 of the way into Miller's freshmen season. Both are good 3-point shooters, both have some defensive weaknesses, Griffin's more prone to turnovers but also pulls down significantly more boards. I think if you look at there stats at the end of this season or next season the comparison will shift in Miller's favor as it is obvious (at least to me) that Miller is further from his career ceiling than Griffin is. If losing Griffin is the sacrifice we had to make to get Miller to play for us this year and next, I'd say it was well worth it.
 
#97      

Ubermensch

BOOM! Feed my ego.
I think we'd have another 1-2 wins this season if we had Griffin on our roster and we'd probably still be locked in as a Top 5 team with a better chance at winning it all this season.

If losing Griffin is the sacrifice we had to make to get Miller to play for us this year and next, I'd say it was well worth it.
I cannot find a way to get from A to B here.
 
#98      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
Well now both Iowa and Wisconsin have a worse conference loss than we do. That's a good start to a championship.
9608e75eb592f97443b4009554d2dfea (1).gif
Aren't we forgetting someone else ?????WOW

tom-izzo-is-stunned-against-indiana.gif
How could you forget lil ole me ???

tumblr_79f83d03918a226b5fa8e13c9b1d2146_8500383a_400.gif
 
#99      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
Right. For all we know he's a 50% shooter now from 10 feet, but he is 65.7% from (mostly) point blank this year, so I'd rather him keep playing down low for sure. It's simple math.
giphy.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.