Illini Basketball 2020-2021

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#76      

rtbritt

rtbritt
rtbritt
N T A C F said:
Agree with other posters that his role at Illinois is not preparing him for the NBA whatsoever. Needs to lose about 15-20 lbs and work on his explosiveness and shooting. The fact that his 10 footer to win the IU game was perhaps the longest shot he’s taken all year is the perfect illustration.
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And there isn't a team in America that would use him any differently.

Ultimately, if he is a good, successful basketball player that keeps improving, he will be an NBA player, because of his natural gifts. He will have to develop in practice, though. He can develop in practice and show scouts and NBA teams that he is able to play in the NBA at the combine.

I don't believe that it is much about his offense though. I think it is mostly about his defense. If he can guard new-age big men, he'll have a place; if not, he won't.
 
#77      

N T A C F

N
N T A C F
I didn’t argue that anyone would use him differently. I’m making a counterpoint to the argument that playing another year in college is going to help him develop the skills he will need to stick in the NBA.

I’d love for Kofi and everyone else to come back next year, but do you really think the staff has him spending much time handling the ball, and shooting threes/mid range jumpers in practice? I’d bet they have him practicing post moves and making dunks and layups because that’s what he can do and needs to do in games.
 
#78      

I11ini82

I
I11ini82
N T A C F said:
I didn’t argue that anyone would use him differently. I’m making a counterpoint to the argument that playing another year in college is going to help him develop the skills he will need to stick in the NBA.

I’d love for Kofi and everyone else to come back next year, but do you really think the staff has him spending much time handling the ball, and shooting threes/mid range jumpers in practice? I’d bet they have him practicing post moves and making dunks and layups because that’s what he can do and needs to do in games.
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That's what they needed to work on with him during his first two years. He was incredibly raw when he came to Champaign. There is a wonderful article on Kofi on The Athletic that goes into detail about this.

If he came back, I do think the staff would help him develop additional pieces of his game.
 
#79      

Hopingfor500

H
Hopingfor500
N T A C F said:
I didn’t argue that anyone would use him differently. I’m making a counterpoint to the argument that playing another year in college is going to help him develop the skills he will need to stick in the NBA.

I’d love for Kofi and everyone else to come back next year, but do you really think the staff has him spending much time handling the ball, and shooting threes/mid range jumpers in practice? I’d bet they have him practicing post moves and making dunks and layups because that’s what he can do and needs to do in games.
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Problem is that making dunks and layups has been an issue. He has missed more point blank lay ins than anyone else on the team x 5. Being aggressive all the time is an issue.

He has no business trying to extend his game without being able to consistently finish around the rim. If we see that second half against Indiana become the norm, then you could add more to his repertoire.

He showed up raw. His imposing physical stature have made people oooh and ahhhh for two years now. To me, his play is hit or miss and that depends on the size of strength of competition. He is extremely raw still. To me, his career path should be that of Udoka Azubuike. They were very similar coming into school and their curve seems to mirror one another. Doke got much, much more explosive, got quicker off the floor and finished consistently. That got him drafted. He wasn't a high draft choice, but he got there.

Now, it's easy for us to say what Kofi should or shouldn't do because it's not our money that's on the table. That said, he's way, way, way too green to think NBA or even the G League. He'd be tortured on both ends of the floor. If he wants to get paid immediately, I'm sure there's a spot in Turkey or Israel for him. If he wants to maximize his ceiling....he needs to stick around, be the big fish in a small pond, dominate consistently inside, then move his game outside. Watching him miss layups in painful.
 
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#81      

Bucktown

B
Bucktown
Hopingfor500 said:
Problem is that making dunks and layups has been an issue. He has missed more point blank lay ins than anyone else on the team x 5. Being aggressive all the time is an issue.

He has no business trying to extend his game without being able to consistently finish around the rim. If we see that second half against Indiana become the norm, then you could add more to his repertoire.

He showed up raw. His imposing physical stature have made people oooh and ahhhh for two years now. To me, his play is hit or miss and that depends on the size of strength of competition. He is extremely raw still. To me, his career path should be that of Udoka Azubuike. They were very similar coming into school and their curve seems to mirror one another. Doke got much, much more explosive, got quicker off the floor and finished consistently. That got him drafted. He wasn't a high draft choice, but he got there.

Now, it's easy for us to say what Kofi should or shouldn't do because it's not our money that's on the table. That said, he's way, way, way too green to think NBA or even the G League. He'd be tortured on both ends of the floor. If he wants to get paid immediately, I'm sure there's a spot in Turkey or Israel for him. If he wants to maximize his ceiling....he needs to stick around, be the big fish in a small pond, dominate consistently inside, then move his game outside. Watching him miss layups in painful.
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If the season ended today Kofi would have the all time Illinois record for the highest field goal percentage in a season. Arch is 1st at .659. Kofi is currently at .663. (last year .532). He doesn't meet the minimum number of attempts, but he would be 5th all time for a career at .581. Augustine leads at .617.
 
#82      

N T A C F

N
N T A C F
Yeah that argument blew my mind too. Dude is shooting an extremely high percentage with two guys hanging on him half the time. 🤯

I still don’t know what another year of banging within 6’ of the basket in the B1G is going to do for him. The staff may try to work in a bit of a jump shot game over the next year but not at the expense of tons of reps of using his size and strength to abuse opponents inside.
 
#83      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
Hopingfor500 said:
Problem is that making dunks and layups has been an issue. He has missed more point blank lay ins than anyone else on the team x 5. Being aggressive all the time is an issue.

He has no business trying to extend his game without being able to consistently finish around the rim. If we see that second half against Indiana become the norm, then you could add more to his repertoire.

He showed up raw. His imposing physical stature have made people oooh and ahhhh for two years now. To me, his play is hit or miss and that depends on the size of strength of competition. He is extremely raw still. To me, his career path should be that of Udoka Azubuike. They were very similar coming into school and their curve seems to mirror one another. Doke got much, much more explosive, got quicker off the floor and finished consistently. That got him drafted. He wasn't a high draft choice, but he got there.

Now, it's easy for us to say what Kofi should or shouldn't do because it's not our money that's on the table. That said, he's way, way, way too green to think NBA or even the G League. He'd be tortured on both ends of the floor. If he wants to get paid immediately, I'm sure there's a spot in Turkey or Israel for him. If he wants to maximize his ceiling....he needs to stick around, be the big fish in a small pond, dominate consistently inside, then move his game outside. Watching him miss layups in painful.
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#84      

Hopingfor500

H
Hopingfor500
Bucktown said:
If the season ended today Kofi would have the all time Illinois record for the highest field goal percentage in a season. Arch is 1st at .659. Kofi is currently at .663. (last year .532). He doesn't meet the minimum number of attempts, but he would be 5th all time for a career at .581. Augustine leads at .617.
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95% of Kofi's shots come with 3 feet of the rim, maybe more? There are no elbow jumpers, 10 footers, they can't use him in a pick and pop scenario. His points come from layups...many times on an offensive rebound and he has a nice little jump hook. If that 66% shooting included attempts beyond 8 feet, that's a significant difference. That short jumper at the end of regulation at IU was a completely uncontested 10 footer. He HAS to make that shot, at least fairly consistently. Then, the 66% shooting percentage means something.

Maybe I'm way off base and I'm imagining more blown layups than are actually occurring? I find myself screaming "just dunk it!" quite often. Maybe it's just those plays that are sticking out to me. I'd be thrilled to be way off base.
 
#85      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
Bucktown said:
If the season ended today Kofi would have the all time Illinois record for the highest field goal percentage in a season. Arch is 1st at .659. Kofi is currently at .663. (last year .532). He doesn't meet the minimum number of attempts, but he would be 5th all time for a career at .581. Augustine leads at .617.
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Yep and he averages a double double and leads NCAA with 12. I would expect him to make decision like he did last year...from NBA scout feedback. Agree he could get paid if he leaves.

The million dollar question (pun intended) is what specific development with Illini next year would turn him from possible league minimum guy or Europe guy in 2021...to a first round pick and multimillionaire in 2022?
 
#86      

Gregjacksonfan

G
Gregjacksonfan
Hopingfor500 said:
Problem is that making dunks and layups has been an issue. He has missed more point blank lay ins than anyone else on the team x 5. Being aggressive all the time is an issue.

He has no business trying to extend his game without being able to consistently finish around the rim. If we see that second half against Indiana become the norm, then you could add more to his repertoire.

He showed up raw. His imposing physical stature have made people oooh and ahhhh for two years now. To me, his play is hit or miss and that depends on the size of strength of competition. He is extremely raw still. To me, his career path should be that of Udoka Azubuike. They were very similar coming into school and their curve seems to mirror one another. Doke got much, much more explosive, got quicker off the floor and finished consistently. That got him drafted. He wasn't a high draft choice, but he got there.

Now, it's easy for us to say what Kofi should or shouldn't do because it's not our money that's on the table. That said, he's way, way, way too green to think NBA or even the G League. He'd be tortured on both ends of the floor. If he wants to get paid immediately, I'm sure there's a spot in Turkey or Israel for him. If he wants to maximize his ceiling....he needs to stick around, be the big fish in a small pond, dominate consistently inside, then move his game outside. Watching him miss layups in painful.
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People on this board crack me up. Kofi is shooting 67% from the field and getting fouled more than any player in the big ten. The guy has made tremendous strides in a year and half. I tell what is painful, reading some so called experts on this board!!
 
#87      

Kofiisforclosing

K
Kofiisforclosing
Hopingfor500 said:
95% of Kofi's shots come with 3 feet of the rim, maybe more? There are no elbow jumpers, 10 footers, they can't use him in a pick and pop scenario. His points come from layups...many times on an offensive rebound and he has a nice little jump hook. If that 66% shooting included attempts beyond 8 feet, that's a significant difference. That short jumper at the end of regulation at IU was a completely uncontested 10 footer. He HAS to make that shot, at least fairly consistently. Then, the 66% shooting percentage means something.

Maybe I'm way off base and I'm imagining more blown layups than are actually occurring? I find myself screaming "just dunk it!" quite often. Maybe it's just those plays that are sticking out to me. I'd be thrilled to be way off base.
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I don't have enough thumbs to adequately put down regarding everything about this post.

The point is his shots come at the rim because that's where we are going to play the 7 footer 300 lb guy with drastically better post moves than the year before.

That's always going to be the case for him while in college instead of trying to develop an NBA game against other guys trying to develop an NBA game in an NBA system.
 
#89      

Hopingfor500

H
Hopingfor500
Gregjacksonfan said:
People on this board crack me up. Kofi is shooting 67% from the field and getting fouled more than any player in the big ten. The guy has made tremendous strides in a year and half. I tell what is painful, reading some so called experts on this board!!
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Hold on, I'm the poster who drove you nuts. Let's put all of this back into it's original context. The questions being tossed around were NBA Draft vs Overseas vs Back to College. I maintained that going back to school was the best option because he's raw, struggles finishing around the rim, struggles guarding the perimeter and BU always seems to have to kick him in the rear. Another gentleman thinks that he won't be able to develop any further in college, given the things he has to improve on.

So, it was never a discussion on if he's improved over last year, whether he's been a good player for this team... those things are a resounding yes. Obviously, he's taken a step forward. The question being kicked around is what's his next decision? I think the train got off the tracks, as the origin of this was not to pick on Kofi. It's to look at his game now vs where it needs to be to earn a paycheck.
 
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#90      

logjam

logjam
logjam
Kofiisforclosing said:
I don't have enough thumbs to adequately put down regarding everything about this post.

The point is his shots come at the rim because that's where we are going to play the 7 footer 300 lb guy with drastically better post moves than the year before.

That's always going to be the case for him while in college instead of trying to develop an NBA game against other guys trying to develop an NBA game in an NBA system.
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Kofi is only a so. Garza didn't start getting a outside game till jr. year. Kofi is young to basketball. I'm very thankful we have a Kofi.
 
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#92      

Gregjacksonfan

G
Gregjacksonfan
Hopingfor500 said:
Hold on, I'm the poster who drove you nuts. Let's put all of this back into it's original context. The questions being tossed around were NBA Draft vs Overseas vs Back to College. I maintained that going back to school was the best option because he's raw, struggles finishing around the rim, struggles guarding the perimeter and BU always seems to have to kick him in the rear. Another gentleman thinks that he won't be able to develop any further in college, given the things he has to improve on.

So, it was never a discussion on if he's improved over last year, whether he's been a good player for this team... those things are a resounding yes. Obviously, he's taken a step forward. The question being kicked around is what's his next decision? I think the train got off the tracks, as the origin of this was not to pick on Kofi. It's to look at his game now vs where it needs to be to earn a paycheck.
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Comments like all the missed shots are an issue and all the missed layups are painful to watch is what irked me. If you are expecting the dude to make 8 out of ten shots you are going to be disappointed. It’s never been done!!
 
#93      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Guess we are all disappointed when a shot under the basket or layup is missed. It is just that there are very few uncontested layups. Generally only portion of fast breaks. Seems like in BU’s first or second year our average was less than 50%. Ayo missed a bunch the last game and he probably is one of the best in the country. Kofi is generally surrounded by 2-3 people when he gets the ball. I am just happy we have the abuser rather than the abused.
 
#94      

Deleted member 186590

D
Guest
Deleted member 186590
illinitiger said:
Yep and he averages a double double and leads NCAA with 12. I would expect him to make decision like he did last year...from NBA scout feedback. Agree he could get paid if he leaves.

The million dollar question (pun intended) is what specific development with Illini next year would turn him from possible league minimum guy or Europe guy in 2021...to a first round pick and multimillionaire in 2022?
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I think it’s just showing the ability to hit the 12 footer consistently and pass out of the post more effectively- if he adds those two things to his game, he’s an NBA player no doubt- he has the size and post moves already
 
#95      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
I’d love to see Kofi come back, but I’m not sure it makes all that much sense. The shot he missed against IU is likely the farthest he would ever shoot from again, and not sure he’d take more than a dozen of those shots all next year in a game. So the “development” scouts might see from him next year would be on the defensive side and possibly with his hands. Is that enough to move him into the first round next year? The draft is overwhelmingly based on potential, so I think scouts have a read on whether they want to take a shot with Kofi and see if they can develop him. College is not the only place he can develop his game. In fact based on what seems like a great work ethic, one could argue he would develop more under a full-time pro regiment. And how much has returning helped Garza as far as draft prospects? Doesn’t seem like all that much.

Another thing to think about is that Kofi is a big dude. Not unheard of for big dudes to eventually have problems with backs, knees and feet. Wouldn’t put future health at the top of the decision board, but earlier you get paid the longer you make money if health issues do arrive.
 
#96      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
EyeoftheIllini said:
I’d love to see Kofi come back, but I’m not sure it makes all that much sense. The shot he missed against IU is likely the farthest he would ever shoot from again, and not sure he’d take more than a dozen of those shots all next year in a game. So the “development” scouts might see from him next year would be on the defensive side and possibly with his hands. Is that enough to move him into the first round next year? The draft is overwhelmingly based on potential, so I think scouts have a read on whether they want to take a shot with Kofi and see if they can develop him. College is not the only place he can develop his game. In fact based on what seems like a great work ethic, one could argue he would develop more under a full-time pro regiment. And how much has returning helped Garza as far as draft prospects? Doesn’t seem like all that much.

Another thing to think about is that Kofi is a big dude. Not unheard of for big dudes to eventually have problems with backs, knees and feet. Wouldn’t put future health at the top of the decision board, but earlier you get paid the longer you make money if health issues do arrive.
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I agree. I think he will make a lot of money whether in the NBA or elsewhere. I don’t see a strong advantage to him in playing another year of college ball. Obviously I would LOVE to have him for 3 more years and watch him dominate, but don’t think it‘s in his best interests.
 
#98      

jrmarcus

J
jrmarcus
FollowMeDontFollowMe said:
Love Kofi, but there’s a reason the draft experts have him either in the 2nd round or as a 2022 draftee.
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It's because the change in the NBA. Like you hear every game from the announcers, Kofi plays an old style game. Back in the prime of the NBA, Kofi would have been a top 3 pick. Draft experts also have the possible winner of the NCAA player of the year, Luke Garza, as a mid- to late-second round pick. That is not to say that Garza is doing anything wrong. Same with Kofi. Kofi is playing the game he is supposed to play. He's never going to be a point/stretch forward.
 
#99      

the juiceman cometh

T
the juiceman cometh
jrmarcus said:
It's because the change in the NBA. Like you hear every game from the announcers, Kofi plays an old style game. Back in the prime of the NBA, Kofi would have been a top 3 pick. Draft experts also have the possible winner of the NCAA player of the year, Luke Garza, as a mid- to late-second round pick. That is not to say that Garza is doing anything wrong. Same with Kofi. Kofi is playing the game he is supposed to play. He's never going to be a point/stretch forward.
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Garza seems to have the opposite problem of Kofi. He has the skills, but lacks the athleticism. Kofi is a physical freak, but lacks some of the skills the NBA looks for, with no clear indication those skills are within his grasp.
 
#100      

Deleted member 747903

D
Guest
Deleted member 747903
the juiceman cometh said:
Garza seems to have the opposite problem of Kofi. He has the skills, but lacks the athleticism. Kofi is a physical freak, but lacks some of the skills the NBA looks for, with no clear indication those skills are within his grasp.
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Probably why kofi has a higher ceiling than Garza. You can teach skills but you can’t teach raw athleticism
 
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