Illini Basketball 2021-2022

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#377      
I mean you could apply this line of thinking to literally any lineup. Why not try Kofi at PG and then if the analytics support it you stay with it.

A 2-3 zone had so many weaknesses. Any team that has a capable passer and a couple shooters can break a 2-3 zone down for easy points. A 2-3 zone is never anything to drool over.

Part 1: That’s literally how you confirm if your best lineups are your best lineups.

Part 2: I’m drooling over that 2-3 Syracuse played on the way to their championship and would trade every possession of lock down man to man Illinois ever played to have one.

Some posters get a thrill out of imagining the tallest lineup possible and give little thought to the skills (quickness, ball-handling, etc) needed to play a position. Coaches will put the best lineup they can on the floor.

Interesting assumption. Thinking through all possible lineups is specifically what coaches do.
 
#378      
It is not just "some posters" who fantasize this way. Lou Henson visited the Law School during the 1978-79 preseason and spent a fair amount of time thinking out loud about putting Derek Holcomb and James (? not sure of his first name) Griffin on the floor together. I don't think he ever did so, and if he did it was not for a great length of time, but he thought putting the biggest possible line-up together was an intriguing idea.
I think you should pay attention to what people do more than what they say.
 
#379      
I think you should pay attention to what people do more than what they say.
If you think I paid attention to what Coach Henson said but not what Coach Henson did, you might consider reading my post again.
 
#380      
If you think I paid attention to what Coach Henson said but not what Coach Henson did, you might consider reading my post again.

If we're just ruminating, sure go for it. But if we're making a serious prediction of what will occur, I don't think our coaches will be playing these NBA-size lineups that some are fantasizing about.
 
#382      
Even with Kofi back, I've seen us ranked anywhere from third to sixth in the upcoming Big Ten season. Good, the rest of the league is in for a surprise. Our bench is seen by some as questionable, but I believe it will be a real strength with the quality of our transfers and freshmen. It will be a dogfight between us, Purdue, and Michigan for the title. I like our chances to compete with the best, Brad and staff will have the men ready, and we will play with intensity and purpose. Ayo will be missed, but we have plenty of talent ready to step it up.
 
#383      
Sorry if already posted.
I read it in hopes that the writer has actually seen Austin playing in practice, he hasn't. Stopped in my tracks when he said he thinks Hutch is better than Andrew Wiggins...

Kenan Thompson Reaction GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
#385      
A 2-3 zone had so many weaknesses. Any team that has a capable passer and a couple shooters can break a 2-3 zone down for easy points. A 2-3 zone is never anything to drool over.
Almost every year we watch Syracuse run out 2-3 zone and overachieve in the NCAA tourney. Sure, it has weaknesses -- most defenses do -- but I often wish we would experiment with it more often. Didn't Oregon St. run a zone too this year? Ideally, you'd have a team capable of seamlessly switching between zone and man-to-man. I sure would've liked to have seen that look more against Loyola rather than running the "escort them to the basket" defense.
 
#387      
Almost every year we watch Syracuse run out 2-3 zone and overachieve in the NCAA tourney. Sure, it has weaknesses -- most defenses do -- but I often wish we would experiment with it more often. Didn't Oregon St. run a zone too this year? Ideally, you'd have a team capable of seamlessly switching between zone and man-to-man. I sure would've liked to have seen that look more against Loyola rather than running the "escort them to the basket" defense.
Oregon State moves back and forth between man and zone. Off top of my head I’d say probably 60/40 man to zone. Can’t remember if they kept same ratio during tourney run.
 
#388      
This CH on the wing talk is so dumb to me. Just because he can shoot and move decently laterally doesn’t mean he should guard/play small forward. His best assets are his post defense, post passing and ability to draw opposing bigs from the basket to have to guard him.
 
#389      
Almost every year we watch Syracuse run out 2-3 zone and overachieve in the NCAA tourney. Sure, it has weaknesses -- most defenses do -- but I often wish we would experiment with it more often. Didn't Oregon St. run a zone too this year? Ideally, you'd have a team capable of seamlessly switching between zone and man-to-man. I sure would've liked to have seen that look more against Loyola rather than running the "escort them to the basket" defense.
Zone defense is good against one dimensional teams or to cover up for a mismatch. If Omar Payne and Coleman Hawkins are studs on offense, it would make sense. Otherwise there is very little reason to think you can win the championship running primarily a zone defense. There are way too many ways to beat a zone. The best is a true hybrid with help defense and rotations - but that’s honestly just ACTUAL man defense.

Zone is an easy way to beat mediocre teams. It works for Syracuse and worked for Oregon state against teams that didn’t have a good answer, but there’s a reason those teams don’t win it all. Good teams beat zone defenses.
 
#391      
Almost every year we watch Syracuse run out 2-3 zone and overachieve in the NCAA tourney. Sure, it has weaknesses -- most defenses do -- but I often wish we would experiment with it more often. Didn't Oregon St. run a zone too this year? Ideally, you'd have a team capable of seamlessly switching between zone and man-to-man. I sure would've liked to have seen that look more against Loyola rather than running the "escort them to the basket" defense.

USC also ran a nasty 2-3 in the tournament too.
 
#392      
I read it in hopes that the writer has actually seen Austin playing in practice, he hasn't. Stopped in my tracks when he said he thinks Hutch is better than Andrew Wiggins...

Kenan Thompson Reaction GIF by Saturday Night Live
I think the guy was joking on that, their website is a fan run one and in the article he flat out states that his source is “guessing”. The way he described wiggs made it seem like a joke
 
#393      
I tend to believe the zone is especially effective in the tournament simply because you usually have to make a lot of midrange shots to beat it. A lot of teams get tight in those single elimination games. (I know, you all know…) If they run into a team that can maintain its composure, it doesn’t go well. It can set the stage for an upset or two, if winning a couple games is the goal. If you are trying to win it all, you need to impose your will man to man. (Mostly)
 
#394      
This CH on the wing talk is so dumb to me. Just because he can shoot and move decently laterally doesn’t mean he should guard/play small forward. His best assets are his post defense, post passing and ability to draw opposing bigs from the basket to have to guard him.
Come on now. Really? Yes. Those things are his main role. But for CoHawk’s development playing in game situations as a 3 will be huge.

Will he exclusively play as a 3, no. Should he play the 3 in some lineups, especially before conference season, yes. Why? Because I don’t want to be in the cellar anymore. And we are at our best when we have NBA players on our team. Malcom Hill, fantastic player but not quite NBA level and we couldn’t get over the hump. Ayo Dosunmu, pro, Andre Curbelo, pro, (we have a literal case study this season on our staff’s player development with) Kofi Cockburn, pro, Giorgi Bezhanishvili, pro?

Hawkins has potential, so why not maximize it?
 
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#395      

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Grand Rapids, Michigan
Does anyone else remember a couple of games during this last season when we had a guy (i think it was curbelo) just staying around the free throw line during offensive possesions? It seemed to work well, but then we stopped doing it and i didn't know why...
 
#396      
Come on now. Really? Yes. Those things are his main role. But for CoHawk’s development playing in game situations as a 3 will be huge.

Will he exclusively play as a 3, no. Should he play the 3 in some lineups, especially before conference season, yes. Why? Because I don’t want to be in the cellar anymore. And we are at our best when we have NBA players on our team. Malcom Hill, fantastic player but not quite NBA level and we couldn’t get over the hump. Ayo Dosunmu, pro, Andre Curbelo, pro, (we have a literal case study this season on our staff’s player development with) Kofi Cockburn, pro, Giorgi Bezhanishvili, pro?

Hawkins has potential, so why not maximize it?
Probably mostly on switches, we have too much depth 1-3 too experiment that way.
 
#397      
Come on now. Really? Yes. Those things are his main role. But for CoHawk’s development playing in game situations as a 3 will be huge.

Will he exclusively play as a 3, no. Should he play the 3 in some lineups, especially before conference season, yes. Why? Because I don’t want to be in the cellar anymore. And we are at our best when we have NBA players on our team. Malcom Hill, fantastic player but not quite NBA level and we couldn’t get over the hump. Ayo Dosunmu, pro, Andre Curbelo, pro, (we have a literal case study this season on our staff’s player development with) Kofi Cockburn, pro, Giorgi Bezhanishvili, pro?

Hawkins has potential, so why not maximize it?
Seems to me we left the cellar far behind last year. Most B10 regular season wins. Won the BTT. #1 seed. That ain't the cellar. And I don't see the cellar in the near future with the recruits coming in. Ayo is gone and that is a big hole to fill. But we return a possible future NBA PG, a C who has a legit shot at NPOY, and more wings than KFC. What this team really lacked last year was a legit stretch 4. Who is a better fit for that role than CoHawk? At some point the future becomes now. I say let's go for a NC now! This may be last time we ever see a players like Kofi and AC on the roster at the same time. Ask a Cubs fan if he would sacrifice 2016 for a guarantee to never see the cellar again.
 
#398      
Seems to me we left the cellar far behind last year. Most B10 regular season wins. Won the BTT. #1 seed. That ain't the cellar. And I don't see the cellar in the near future with the recruits coming in. Ayo is gone and that is a big hole to fill. But we return a possible future NBA PG, a C who has a legit shot at NPOY, and more wings than KFC. What this team really lacked last year was a legit stretch 4. Who is a better fit for that role than CoHawk? At some point the future becomes now. I say let's go for a NC now! This may be last time we ever see a players like Kofi and AC on the roster at the same time. Ask a Cubs fan if he would sacrifice 2016 for a guarantee to never see the cellar again.
And we will do all of those things with CoHawk as a stretch 4 in the now.

Yes, we have great pieces, and CoHawk could be one in a long line of NBA caliber Illini.
Probably mostly on switches, we have too much depth 1-3 too experiment that way.
Nothing wrong with a bit of a logjam across a position group when one of them is 6’10”. /s
 
#399      
Come on now. Really? Yes. Those things are his main role. But for CoHawk’s development playing in game situations as a 3 will be huge.

Will he exclusively play as a 3, no. Should he play the 3 in some lineups, especially before conference season, yes. Why? Because I don’t want to be in the cellar anymore. And we are at our best when we have NBA players on our team. Malcom Hill, fantastic player but not quite NBA level and we couldn’t get over the hump. Ayo Dosunmu, pro, Andre Curbelo, pro, (we have a literal case study this season on our staff’s player development with) Kofi Cockburn, pro, Giorgi Bezhanishvili, pro?

Hawkins has potential, so why not maximize it?
Wow hard to know where to start.
1) where were you the past 2 years? We’re closer to the penthouse than the cellar. And we’re a top ten 10 team heading into this year.
2) every college team is better with NBA players...
3) Hawkins may be NBA caliber. He might not be. But I can guarantee you this...his development towards that goal should NOT include being some small forward swing player. Dude is 6’10” pushing 6’11”. He’s already got promise as a stretch 4/5, why would you all of a sudden change him into a wing? Yes he should continue to develop certain guard skills like his ballhandling but what he really needs is to get stronger and improve his court awareness.
4) playing Hawkins on the wings is detrimental to this team. With him, Kofi, Payne and even BBV, we have maybe the best big men depth we’ve had in like 10-15 years. We also have a plethora of backcourt players that need minutes. Belo, Frazier, DaMonte, Hutch, Plummer will all have significant roles which will lead to a lot of 3 guard lineups. And if what Brad said is legit, we’ll see Kofi and Payne together and thus probably combos of either of them and Hawkins together, pushing DaMonte and Grandison to the wings. Where exactly are we seeing minutes for Hawkins at the 3? Plus...
5) speaking of them and development, with Podz, Goode and Melendez, don’t you think it’s more important for the future of this program that we develop those wing players?
I hope this puts this discussion to bed.
 
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