I’m not one of those saying our lack of PG is an issue. The mental aspect of playing the position is a hell of a lot more important than FT shooting average. The ability to read defenses and know your teammate’s strengths and having the respect due to your leadership skills will lead to success. Harmon is way above any player we had last year (at the position) and we stack Ty and DGL in addition. Don’t know who will start but it may not be the same at year end as it is in November.
Illini Basketball 2023-2024
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pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
He's one potential savior, and Moretti is still on the team, right?
We will experiment with those options, having no other choice.
I suspect those will be moments when folks here belatedly come to appreciate what Epps provided last year. But we can hope.
I'm not stoked because he doesn't shoot well really from anywhere. Even at the rim he is only around 58%. I am not hating on him but just being realist Also how can he be handling the ball down the stretch in close games given his FT issues? He could be a solid back up option because of all the other skills he does excell. However, when I think of the best pgs to play in the B10 really all of them were at least a threat to score in areas besides at the rim. I dint recall Ty attempting really any shots outside of 5 feet. With him as our PG Domask, Goode, & DGL better shoot it.
It’s summer, Gritty. If it isn’t full of wildfire smoke where you are, maybe get some vitamin d. Catch some ultra violet solar flare heat dome death rays.
Should the team be fundamentally broken come 2024, then we have reason for concern. TSJ and CoHawk need to perform if they’d like to make money next year, they’ll need to get some wins, too. Wins in March will only help those dollar $ign$.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
My main emotion in this is just genuine shock that the staff just gave up after RayJ.
Put a totally pedestrian veteran transfer PG on this team and we're setting our sights on the Final Four. Instead we have 4/5 of a basketball team and are indulging in pure make-believe about a combo forward being a 94-foot ballhandler and offense initiator.
I can't believe that's where we're at. I'm apparently the only actual BU fan here, but I'm just baffled right now.
Put a totally pedestrian veteran transfer PG on this team and we're setting our sights on the Final Four. Instead we have 4/5 of a basketball team and are indulging in pure make-believe about a combo forward being a 94-foot ballhandler and offense initiator.
I can't believe that's where we're at. I'm apparently the only actual BU fan here, but I'm just baffled right now.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
theNewGuy
- Dallas, TX
Didn't Brad say Goode would be a 1500 point scorer last offseason? he has 96 points in his career so far, but that injury plagued him. so let's say he got to career 300 points last season (7.4ppg) so that leaves 1200 points left. to hit that let's say he gets 500 this season and 700 the next. playing 33 games, goode will average 15.2ppg this year and 21.2 next year!
Is that not what Harmon projects to be on a P6 team? At least?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
He's really not a PG at all and averaged more turnovers than assists in both seasons at Utah Valley.
And his breakout in the NIT was really playing as a bully-ball bucket getting 2. A poor man's TSJ.
The moment when it was suggested that Harmon might swap out for his teammate Trey Woodbury was a ray of hope, but alas.
I do agree though that Harmon as lead guard will be an experiment we'll be forced into.
Rodgers at the 1 will last half a game in the real world, that's just not a thing. Same as the brief flirtations with Hawkins there.
The GOOD news is that because this roster is very good in terms of passing up and down the lineup, plus a higher degree of familiarity with each other and the system, the demands on that PG position are not super high. We don't need some master orchestrator there. But we do need a point guard.
I would not be shocked if one of DGL, Sincere, Moretti or Harmon (in that order) turns out to give us just enough to allow the strength of the rest of the roster to shine through and avoid a disastrous mess. I would be shocked if a Rodgers, TSJ, Domask, Hawkins, Dainja type lineup is viable. We're gonna look like we did against Arkansas when we couldn't run anything and real guards were just taking the ball away from us at will.
Moretti will not see the court
chiefini
- Rockford, Illinois
And you know this certainty how, Gritty? Have you been in Ubben watching Rodgers practice at the 1? Did you watch him play at the 1 in high school? To predict failure is one thing, but to be an absolutist with no hope for success, coming from a place without actual proof, is another…
Harmon is more of a point guard at this point than Epps was last season. I rewatched a few games recently and I started feeling a little salty that we lost him since he’s such a talented scorer, but that’s what he was, he wasn’t a point guard. If anything, I think we’ll see some similarities between the two with Harmon being the top scorer in a handful of games and just getting crazy hot. There will be turnovers for sure but our defense gives us some wiggle room with that.
Joel Goodson
- ties will be resolved
WRT Epps, I ton of fans appreciate what he brought. Kid is a bucket (despite some offensive struggles). He'll probably average near 20 for the Hoyas.
But he's certainly not a PG, has work to do defensively and he bucked instruction while he was here. Gotta look at the whole package. If he matures, he'll be an outstanding player.
Your right he likely will not. But DGL or Harmon will down the stretch at PG because Ty and Harris can't be the primary ball handlers down the stretch up a few points given their FT shooting issues. I just don't see how people ignore this major issue for a quality PG. Didn't we enjoy the feeling when DWill, Garris and other great PGs went to the line in tight games? Hell, people forget we lose vs Texas if Epps doesn't knock down two FTs in a moment that would be unlikely for some. I really, really hope DGL goes off and can be our starting PG by the time B10 gets here. Ty can fill so many other areas of need. He does bring so many skills to this team but is he who we want handling the ball and being hacked in close games? Ty or Harris playing PG down the stretch is and going to the line. It concerns me big time. How can it not be a concern for anyone if they are being honest?
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I agree with your concerns about the PG situation, and am worried about what will happen.
But just want to point out that the bolded is contradicting previous statements, considering just yesterday you stated, "but the 2023-24 Illini are totally, unavoidably screwed."
Which is it?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
This is a good point, not only is this doomed PG experiment the wrong thing for our PG position, it's the wrong thing for Ty too, who to be clear I really like and believe in as a gritty (no pun intended) two-way forward who impacts the game in a variety of ways.
How dare you force me into logical consistency!
I would say there is no way this is the top 20ish, conference title contending team it absolutely would and should be if we'd handled the portal properly.
There is some hope we can find some sort of PG play out of our motley collection of smaller guards that keeps the bottom from falling out. But I think the more likely outcome is something more like Michigan or Ohio State last year, where an intriguing group of quality talent takes the floor and you're suddenly confronted with the reality that there's just not a basketball team there.
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Very valid concern. But there is a chance that they improve significantly. They were only freshman last year, after all.
Do we know what their FT shooting was like in high school?
So what is a realistic expectation? If they doubled thier percentage from last season for each of them they would still struggle. That is just very unlikely. If they shoot improved to the mid 50s that would be a major improvement but still will keep them on the bench down the stretch.
the national
- the Front Range
I’m surprised that it’s presumed that we will be a mess without a “true” pg. More and more I feel that “true” offensive initiator can come from a variety of positions. The concept of a point forward is still growing on me. The key is not turning the ball over and making decisive moves (which doesn’t always need to be dribble drive or pick n roll).
Coleman was forced into initiating the offense a lot last year which hurt the team at times due to his turnovers. He’s a great player - I love what he brings. But him doing one too many moves or passing it over someone’s head just crushed the flow. Alternatively, Rodgers seemed to be more decisive and sure handed when he did bring the ball up. Something tells me that Rodgers will surprise many basketball traditionalists. (This is all coming from the eye test, I’m not sure what the numbers say)
Coleman was forced into initiating the offense a lot last year which hurt the team at times due to his turnovers. He’s a great player - I love what he brings. But him doing one too many moves or passing it over someone’s head just crushed the flow. Alternatively, Rodgers seemed to be more decisive and sure handed when he did bring the ball up. Something tells me that Rodgers will surprise many basketball traditionalists. (This is all coming from the eye test, I’m not sure what the numbers say)
So you are saying. Went from a final four team with ray J to not making the tournament with Ty and DGL and justin as our point guards?
Something smells fishy here
Deron Williams was not a great FT shooter at Illinois. (under 70% for his career) He shot under 60% his freshman year. There weren't enough tight games in the late DWill era for us to be super worried about FTs.
He developed into a reliable FT shooter as his career progressed. (over 80% in the NBA)
It's interesting that you brought up Deron, because his FT% actually went up over 25% between his freshman & sophomore years. Significant improvement is possible. Past performance isn't always indicative of future performance, especially when looking at a player's freshman year.
I realize that Ty's shot looked pretty broken last season, but I also assume he understands the importance of putting in the work to fix it as it could be a significant barrier to his playing time and future pro career.
Maybe he needs to consider watching some Rick Barry videos...
I think the difference is that those teams weren't very good defensively, whereas we should be good at that end. So, while I'm fairly pessimistic about the season due to the pg situation, I still think the floor is fairly high.
Nothing Gritty says makes senseSo you are saying. Went from a final four team with ray J to not making the tournament with Ty and DGL and justin as our point guards?
Something smells fishy here
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