Illini Basketball 2023-2024

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#1      

Dan

Dan
Admin
Dan
Welcome to the Illini Basketball & College Basketball thread :illinois:

2023-2024 Illini Basketball Schedule

DateOpponentTime/TV
Fri, Oct 20Ottawa
(Exhibition Game)
Sun, Oct 29Kansas
(Exhibition Game)		5:00pm BTN
Mon, Nov 6Eastern Illinois
Fri, Nov 10Oakland
Tue, Nov 14Marquette
(Gavitt Tipoff Games)
Fri, Nov 17Valparaiso
Sun, Nov 19Southern
Fri, Nov 24Western Illinois
Sat, Dec 2at Rutgers
Tue, Dec 5Florida Atlantic
(Jimmy V Classic, New York City)
Sat, Dec 9at Tennessee
Sun, Dec 17Colgate
Fri, Dec 22Missouri
(Braggin' Rights, St. Louis)
Fri, Dec 29Fairleigh Dickinson
Tue, Jan 2Northwestern
Fri, Jan 5at Purdue
Thu, Jan 11Michigan State
Sun, Jan 14Maryland
Thu, Jan 18at Michigan
Sun, Jan 21Rutgers
Wed, Jan 24at Northwestern
Sat, Jan 27Indiana
Tue, Jan 30at Ohio State
Sun, Feb 4Nebraska
Sat, Feb 10at Michigan State
Tue, Feb 13Michigan
Sat, Feb 17at Maryland
Wed, Feb 21at Penn State
Sat, Feb 24Iowa
Wed, Feb 28Minnesota
Sat, Mar 2at Wisconsin
Tue, Mar 5Purdue
Sun, Mar 10at Iowa

All times CT


Illinois' opponent rotation for the 20-game Big Ten league schedule:

Home Only – Indiana, Minnesota, Nebraska
Away Only – Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin
Home & Away – Iowa, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Purdue, Rutgers
 
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#2      

pruman91

pruman91
Paducah, Ky
pruman91
200w (3).gif


smells like team spirit......................it really really does...................
 
#8      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
#9      

grue2

G
grue2
SeattleSlim said:
As stated before on this forum, the physics of the bank shot free throw should lead to a higher percentage of makes. Throw the ball into that little box on the backboard. A made free throw is far cooler than a cool looking missed one.
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I must have missed the discussion on the bank shot free throw. As far as I've read, the physics says take a bank shot unless you are "straight on" (between the lane markers), and more than 1/2 way to the free throw line. Close, in the lane shots, even if straight on, are still better being banked unless you have a clean dunk. By this description, free throws fall squarely in the "don't bank" range. If the belief of the physics have changed, can someone please point me to the article? (geek alert)

The most recent free throw research I've seen was from NC (NC State?). They claimed: The higher the release the better. You want 3 backspin revolutions. Release at ~56 degrees. Aim for the back of the rim. The made this claim based on empirical data. No actual physics analysis was involved.
 
#10      

Illinifan74

Illinifan74
Illinifan74
SeattleSlim said:
As stated before on this forum, the physics of the bank shot free throw should lead to a higher percentage of makes. Throw the ball into that little box on the backboard. A made free throw is far cooler than a cool looking missed one.
Click to expand...

I was never a very good basketball player. Could not really dribble, and I am only 5'7" to boot. However, I was a very good spot up shooter, I could move without the ball, and get into a spot to shoot - but I always used the backboard. I was good at working the angles, and knew that there was a better chance of the ball going in that way. All of that was just really a long-winded way for me to say that I don't understand why more people do not use the backboard for free throws.
 
#11      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
Illinifan74 said:
I was never a very good basketball player. Could not really dribble, and I am only 5'7" to boot. However, I was a very good spot up shooter, I could move without the ball, and get into a spot to shoot - but I always used the backboard. I was good at working the angles, and knew that there was a better chance of the ball going in that way. All of that was just really a long-winded way for me to say that I don't understand why more people do not use the backboard for free throws.
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:ROFLMAO:

Many moons ago in our weekly pick up game (old HS gym in Indiana with a score keeper! lol) I had ~12 assists one night with one old dude that would pop out off of a pick to the wing and I'd hit him right in the pocket...and he drilled a 20 footer off the glass. Every. Time.
 
#12      

SeattleSlim

S
SeattleSlim
grue2 said:
I must have missed the discussion on the bank shot free throw. As far as I've read, the physics says take a bank shot unless you are "straight on" (between the lane markers), and more than 1/2 way to the free throw line. Close, in the lane shots, even if straight on, are still better being banked unless you have a clean dunk. By this description, free throws fall squarely in the "don't bank" range. If the belief of the physics have changed, can someone please point me to the article? (geek alert)

The most recent free throw research I've seen was from NC (NC State?). They claimed: The higher the release the better. You want 3 backspin revolutions. Release at ~56 degrees. Aim for the back of the rim. The made this claim based on empirical data. No actual physics analysis was involved.
Click to expand...
Well, the higher the arc the better. The rest of that research is based on preferred behavior, not physics. And would you rather target the back of the rim (which you don’t want to hit), or the little box, (which you do)?
 
#13      

grue2

G
grue2
SeattleSlim said:
Well, the higher the arc the better. The rest of that research is based on preferred behavior, not physics. And would you rather target the back of the rim (which you don’t want to hit), or the little box, (which you do)?
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The higher the arc the better is a theoretical answer vs. a practical answer. Consider the height the ball needs to reach to get to an 89 degree arc. The 56 degree arc they found doesn't surprise me. My engineering intuition did expect it to be about 5 degrees higher.

If you have enough arc, and some backspin, hitting the inside back of the rim is okay. I suspect the advice is because players tend to leave it short more often than they go long. Especially toward the end of games.
 
#15      

cjw1901

C
cjw1901
grue2 said:
I must have missed the discussion on the bank shot free throw. As far as I've read, the physics says take a bank shot unless you are "straight on" (between the lane markers), and more than 1/2 way to the free throw line. Close, in the lane shots, even if straight on, are still better being banked unless you have a clean dunk. By this description, free throws fall squarely in the "don't bank" range. If the belief of the physics have changed, can someone please point me to the article? (geek alert)

The most recent free throw research I've seen was from NC (NC State?). They claimed: The higher the release the better. You want 3 backspin revolutions. Release at ~56 degrees. Aim for the back of the rim. The made this claim based on empirical data. No actual physics analysis was involved.
Click to expand...
This NC (or NC State) technique sounds best to me. They may have determined that by looking at what technique relates to what percentage of made free throws for college basketball players or maybe just their own team.

One of weaknesses in bank free throws relates to the distance the ball travels on a bank shot vs. a direct shot. On a bank shot, the ball normally travels further.

Another weakness in bank free throws relates to the velocity of the ball vs. a direct shot. On a bank shot, the ball normally travels faster (this is due to normally increased distance).

Another difference in direct vs bank shots is whether the front and back of the rim and the backboard can help a missed (not dead-centered) shot result in made basket. We've all seen the bottom of the ball hit the front of the rim and bounce in. We've also seen the back side or top side of the ball hit the back of the rim and go in. These variations don't seem quite as forgiving for banked free throw where the ball is traveling faster. Yes, there are similar variations, but because the ball is moving faster, they are not as forgiving.

Another difference is that raising the trajectory (normally done in a bank shot) doesn't help get the shot over a defender, since there is no defender on a free throw.

So, in the end, these Korean FT bankers are just shooting 80% because they are good shooters. My guess is that they will shoot an even better percentage if they switch to shooting direct FTs (and gave it a few years to get used to the change).
 
#19      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
cjw1901 said:
One of weaknesses in bank free throws relates to the distance the ball travels on a bank shot vs. a direct shot. On a bank shot, the ball normally travels further.
Click to expand...
If a college basketball player can't shoot the ball about a foot further than a non-banked free-throw, they probably shouldn't be playing college basketball.
cjw1901 said:
Another weakness in bank free throws relates to the velocity of the ball vs. a direct shot. On a bank shot, the ball normally travels faster (this is due to normally increased distance).
Click to expand...
This makes no sense. The impact with the backboard will tend to absorb a fair bit of energy. I'd imagine there is very little difference between the kinetic energy in the ball when it gets to the rim in either case. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn that a bank shot actually has less.
cjw1901 said:
Another difference in direct vs bank shots is whether the front and back of the rim and the backboard can help a missed (not dead-centered) shot result in made basket. We've all seen the bottom of the ball hit the front of the rim and bounce in. We've also seen the back side or top side of the ball hit the back of the rim and go in. These variations don't seem quite as forgiving for banked free throw where the ball is traveling faster. Yes, there are similar variations, but because the ball is moving faster, they are not as forgiving.
Click to expand...
If anything, a banked free throw should be more forgiving in this regard. It's going to come at the rim from a steeper angle due to the backspin against the backboard, which should make the basket "look" bigger to the ball.
 
#20      

grue2

G
grue2
sacraig said:
If a college basketball player can't shoot the ball about a foot further than a non-banked free-throw, they probably shouldn't be playing college basketball.

This makes no sense. The impact with the backboard will tend to absorb a fair bit of energy. I'd imagine there is very little difference between the kinetic energy in the ball when it gets to the rim in either case. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn that a bank shot actually has less.

If anything, a banked free throw should be more forgiving in this regard. It's going to come at the rim from a steeper angle due to the backspin against the backboard, which should make the basket "look" bigger to the ball.
Click to expand...
Does the geometry of the backboard allow for the backboard free throw to be at a steeper angle than 56 degrees? I would have guessed it was closer to 40-45 degrees. I do remember getting some slack on the backboard free throws that were shot a bit too hard; backboard -> inside front of rim -> backboard -> in. A "normal" shot that is a bit hard hits the back of the rim and comes out.

If people think poor free throw shooting pros would be willing to shoot free throws off the backboard, this may be a good experiment to run.
 
#22      

hoopsfan47

H
hoopsfan47
There are around 6-8 aspects of shooting free throws at a high percentage that conform to physics AND physiology....and banking them off the backboard is not one of them and never will be.
 
#23      

cjw1901

C
cjw1901
sacraig said:
If a college basketball player can't shoot the ball about a foot further than a non-banked free-throw, they probably shouldn't be playing college basketball.

This makes no sense. The impact with the backboard will tend to absorb a fair bit of energy. I'd imagine there is very little difference between the kinetic energy in the ball when it gets to the rim in either case. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn that a bank shot actually has less.

If anything, a banked free throw should be more forgiving in this regard. It's going to come at the rim from a steeper angle due to the backspin against the backboard, which should make the basket "look" bigger to the ball.
Click to expand...
Not true. Dumbly taking longer-than-necessary shots (especially for 6'10" CH and the like) will hurt your percentages and lose you more games in the end. So, yes, every foot counts.

Wrong again, a basketball is much lighter than the basket and its supports, so when long shots arrive at the basket with greater velocity (when shot in a normal way, w/o extreme arch), they do, on the average, cause longer rebounds. So, the simple logic is, don't shoot (even by a foot or two) from longer than you need to. To be clear, I have no problem with people laying the ball off the glass on a layup. But, yeah, CH should jam it every time he can.

And, no, back-spin helps for both bank and direct shots, so that doesn't really differ.

I'm sorry. IMHO, any purported bank-free-throw advantage is a hoax. To me, the only things dumber are the guys who purposely line up behind the line, or step into a jump shot as their FT, or, Good Lord, line up off-center! If I ever saw people do any of that at IMPE (or anywhere), I knew I had them beat before the game even started.
 
#24      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
Here’s what I know, if you can’t palm the ball in each hand and flick it up to the rim as quickly and accurately as possible, the backboard is the best method to run up your score in pop a shot.
 
#25      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
I do a lot better at Pop-a-Shot when I bank them. 😁

I really don’t think banking shots would improve most players FT%. The only benefit I could see (and apologies if this has been mentioned) is that for some players having a more “concrete” target might work better.
 
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