We will find out. The downside is we probably need to clear 1-2 spots for transfers...
Illini Basketball 2023-2024
- Status
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
was last year's version a dumbo?
Not sure where to post this thought...but will do it here. This team literally has 3 unique and wonderful players in TSJr., Coleman, and Marcus. It has been a joy to me to watch these guys not only play together, but thrive together and take this team to an elite levels,,,one we all hoped could be achieved but certainly had no reason to expect.
TSJr. - This guy is a once in a lifetime talent. I have never seen or expect to see a player with his skills. His speed and ability to handle and adjust at that speed are unique given his size. I especially give him a deep bow of respect for the work he has done on his perimeter shot...a skill at which he was greatly deficient upon his arrival but at which he has made noticeable improvement. His defensive effort also cannot be denied and is exceptional. That he has performed under the distraction he faces is mind-blowing. Enjoy these NCAA tournament games, Illini fans, as you will never see another player like Terrance Shannon Jr. in an Illini uniform.
Coleman Hawkins - As the above post pertaining to the fact that he is the only Illini player to achieve the level of pts., rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, Coleman is probably the most versatile Illini hoopster in history...especially given his size and the fact that he is also has become a dependable three point shooter. Having watched him pass up 10 ft. jump shots for three years, it is also noted that he does that no more. In summary, the growth and metamorphosis of CoHawk during his career has been a gift for Illini fans to watch. He has a rare skill set for which BU will search hard to find again....but not nearly as unique as TSJr.
Marcus Domask - My admiration for MD is the fact that he challenged himself by joining a top level B1G team in order to play against the best every game. That he thrived and performed at the top of the league deserves a deep bow of respect. His patience with the ball in his hands, his elite skill with the fade-away jumper, his vision and awareness of his teammates, and his general toughness to take a mauling night after night deserve the admiration of Illini fans. Though I have never liked his 3 pt. technique, it was serviceable. His judgement of when to shoot from the arc was outstanding. And the way BU fit this unique player into play has proven to be pure genius.
Personally, I give all three of the above players a deeply sincere thank you for giving this old man the kind of season for which I had hoped. It is rare to see a team improve and meld over the course of the season. These three young men shot the moon in spades, making this team, in my mind, as enjoyable to watch as the '63, '89, and '05 Illini teams I have appreciated so much. These three deserve to play in the FF in my mind, but that will likely require things to go their way of which they have little to no control. But, they have taken this talented, hard working bunch of kids to a level as a team that is both notable and admirable.
I have no idea what Dain,Ty, Luke, Amani, Sincere, Dravyn, Nico, Morez, Jacob, and Chase can accomplish next year, but they will have the best legacy to follow, to have set the bar, that they could have wanted or expected.
TSJr. - This guy is a once in a lifetime talent. I have never seen or expect to see a player with his skills. His speed and ability to handle and adjust at that speed are unique given his size. I especially give him a deep bow of respect for the work he has done on his perimeter shot...a skill at which he was greatly deficient upon his arrival but at which he has made noticeable improvement. His defensive effort also cannot be denied and is exceptional. That he has performed under the distraction he faces is mind-blowing. Enjoy these NCAA tournament games, Illini fans, as you will never see another player like Terrance Shannon Jr. in an Illini uniform.
Coleman Hawkins - As the above post pertaining to the fact that he is the only Illini player to achieve the level of pts., rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, Coleman is probably the most versatile Illini hoopster in history...especially given his size and the fact that he is also has become a dependable three point shooter. Having watched him pass up 10 ft. jump shots for three years, it is also noted that he does that no more. In summary, the growth and metamorphosis of CoHawk during his career has been a gift for Illini fans to watch. He has a rare skill set for which BU will search hard to find again....but not nearly as unique as TSJr.
Marcus Domask - My admiration for MD is the fact that he challenged himself by joining a top level B1G team in order to play against the best every game. That he thrived and performed at the top of the league deserves a deep bow of respect. His patience with the ball in his hands, his elite skill with the fade-away jumper, his vision and awareness of his teammates, and his general toughness to take a mauling night after night deserve the admiration of Illini fans. Though I have never liked his 3 pt. technique, it was serviceable. His judgement of when to shoot from the arc was outstanding. And the way BU fit this unique player into play has proven to be pure genius.
Personally, I give all three of the above players a deeply sincere thank you for giving this old man the kind of season for which I had hoped. It is rare to see a team improve and meld over the course of the season. These three young men shot the moon in spades, making this team, in my mind, as enjoyable to watch as the '63, '89, and '05 Illini teams I have appreciated so much. These three deserve to play in the FF in my mind, but that will likely require things to go their way of which they have little to no control. But, they have taken this talented, hard working bunch of kids to a level as a team that is both notable and admirable.
I have no idea what Dain,Ty, Luke, Amani, Sincere, Dravyn, Nico, Morez, Jacob, and Chase can accomplish next year, but they will have the best legacy to follow, to have set the bar, that they could have wanted or expected.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
We absolutely do not need to clear a single spot for transfers.
We are braced for the reality of roster churn because this is college basketball in 2024, but we have two open spots available for the transfer market at the absolute minimum (one spot currently empty, three incoming freshmen, four players out of eligibility), and if we could keep all of our players eligible to return (including Hawkins) and add quality in those two spots, that would be a grand slam of an offseason.
Guess you are right. I forgot about Hawkins. Just assume he is gone and forgot to count that spot. At any rate, I would add two very good wing/guard players. If Dain stays, he can be the 3rd (or even 2nd) score option.
Goillinikobd
- Southeastern US
I see the Sporting News and 247 have published All American 1st, 2nd and 3rd team,
Who has the final say and when do they announce ?
BTW, 247 has TSJ 2nd team and that’s it.
Who has the final say and when do they announce ?
BTW, 247 has TSJ 2nd team and that’s it.
Big Jack
- Decatur
3 point girl
- texas
What came to mind when I watched TSJ play AAU ball in Dallas years ago was his high motor. He constantly outworked his opponent while on the court. He just never stopped. His shooting wasn't anywhere near what it is now, so I envisioned him more like a Dennis Rodman type player. The strides that he has made shooting the 3 is phenomenal. Hard work does pay off! I am so grateful that he came to Champaign & blessed us with his work ethic & talent. One of the Illinois basketball greats and hope there is more to come.
Bodes well for next year
Chad Fleck
- Eureka, IL
Ty. Rodgers.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
And let's not be too precious about it. It's about prioritizing them from an NIL perspective.
Shannon, Guerrier, Harmon completely one thousand percent out of eligiblity. Played 5 seasons, did COVID year, they're done.
Domask, 95 % likely out of eligibility barring a medical waiver. I'd be surprised if he got it.. 2020-21 was the season that already didn't count so I feel like he's already played 4 seasons that did count. But the NCAA is weird, so what should be clearcut is never such...
Hawkins, I guess we'll see, he has done his four years, everyone understands if he is ready to move on to his next chapter and not take his COVID year. But he could technically come back.
Goode, Dainja, Rodgers, Harris, Hansberry, Gibbs-Lawhorn, Moretti are scholarship players that have eligibility. 3 players signed letter of intents out of high school in Johnson, Butler and Jakstys.
Let's say Hawkins returns AND the NCAA determines Domask is available and he returns. Everyone if NOBODY transfers, that's still only 12 scholarships, so a spot is already there for a transfer. And the odds of all that happening is approximately 0 %, so Illinois definitely has room for transfers without deliberately processing anyone out.
texillwek
🔶🔹🔸🔷
I was scrolling through NCAAM section of espn.com and stumbled upon this. Strange they would use a photo of TSJ for this article when there is literally no mention of him.
Can Domask and Coleman make more $ staying then going? Plus, they would be heroes on campus!
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I was thinking about how excited we all were to get off the 4/5 seed line and get a #3 seed because we all felt a #4 seed is a "tough draw" since you play the #1 seed if you make the Sweet Sixteen ... and it got me thinking how good we have it compared to many programs, even though our fans like to pretend we are just the most tortured group of individuals out there. 
So, I looked back to 1985 - the first year the NCAA Tournament expanded to the modern #1-16 seed format. I looked at a couple different things, but let's start with the number of top 4 or "protected" seeds each Big Ten program has had since then - a timeline of 39 NCAA Tournaments. This serves as a reminder that we have had it pretty good as fans, and also to celebrate this program's consistent success over the years!
PROTECTED/TOP 4 SEEDS BY SCHOOL (Most Recent Year)
Purdue: 16 (2024)
ILLINOIS: 14 (2024)
Michigan: 14 (2021)
Ohio State: 13 (2021) ... 3 of them vacated
Michigan State: 13 (2019)
Indiana: 12 (2023)
Maryland: 10 (2015)
Wisconsin: 8 (2022)
Iowa: 5 (2021)
Minnesota: 1 (1997)
Nebraska: 1 (1993)
Penn State: 0 (highest is a #5 seed in 1996)
Northwestern: 0 (highest is a #8 seed in both 2017 and 2023)
Rutgers: 0 (highest was a #9 seed in 1991)
And that includes a stretch of 1990 to 1999 AND 2007 to 2019 without getting a single one for Illinois. It took the Bruce Pearl incident and Mike Thomas hiring Groce to not be running away with this list compared to our conference peers... When this program is in the right hands, it is literally self-sustaining and has such a high ceiling. We all want more Tournament success, but it will come if we keep getting back there with decent seeds ... and I believe in Underwood to do just that, as he has so far! Some more stats for those interested:
#1 SEEDS
Purdue: 5 (1988, 1994, 1996, 2023, 2024)
Michigan State: 5 (1990, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2012)
ILLINOIS: 4 (1989, 2001, 2005, 2021)
Ohio State: 4 (1991, 1992, 2007, 2011)
Michigan: 3 (1985, 1993, 2021)
Indiana: 3 (1987, 1993, 2013)
Wisconsin: 1 (2015)
Maryland: 1 (2022)
Minnesota: 1 (1997)
Iowa: 0
Nebraska: 0
Penn State: 0
Northwestern: 0
Rutgers: 0
TOTAL NCAA TOURNAMENT APPEARANCES (Last Appearance)
Michigan State: 33 (2024)
Purdue: 30 (2024)
Indiana: 27 (2023)
ILLINOIS: 26 (2024)
Wisconsin: 25 (2024)
Maryland: 23 (2023)
Michigan: 23 (2022)
Ohio State: 22 (2022)
Iowa: 21 (2023)
Minnesota: 12 (2019)
Nebraska: 8 (2024)
Penn State: 5 (2023)
Rutgers: 4 (2022)
Northwestern: 3 (2024)
AVERAGE NCAAT SEED (At Least 20 Appearances)
Ohio State: 4.36
Purdue: 4.77
Michigan: 4.91
ILLINOIS: 4.92
Indiana: 5.26
Michigan State: 5.27
Maryland: 5.30
Wisconsin: 5.72
Iowa: 6.62
TOP FOR EACH SPECIFIC SEED (#2-#4)
#2 Seeds: Ohio State (5), Purdue/Michigan/Michigan State/Indiana (3)
#3 Seeds: Michigan (6), Purdue (5), ILLINOIS (4)
#4 Seeds: ILLINOIS (6), Indiana/Maryland (5)
So, I looked back to 1985 - the first year the NCAA Tournament expanded to the modern #1-16 seed format. I looked at a couple different things, but let's start with the number of top 4 or "protected" seeds each Big Ten program has had since then - a timeline of 39 NCAA Tournaments. This serves as a reminder that we have had it pretty good as fans, and also to celebrate this program's consistent success over the years!
PROTECTED/TOP 4 SEEDS BY SCHOOL (Most Recent Year)
Purdue: 16 (2024)
ILLINOIS: 14 (2024)
Michigan: 14 (2021)
Ohio State: 13 (2021) ... 3 of them vacated
Michigan State: 13 (2019)
Indiana: 12 (2023)
Maryland: 10 (2015)
Wisconsin: 8 (2022)
Iowa: 5 (2021)
Minnesota: 1 (1997)
Nebraska: 1 (1993)
Penn State: 0 (highest is a #5 seed in 1996)
Northwestern: 0 (highest is a #8 seed in both 2017 and 2023)
Rutgers: 0 (highest was a #9 seed in 1991)
And that includes a stretch of 1990 to 1999 AND 2007 to 2019 without getting a single one for Illinois. It took the Bruce Pearl incident and Mike Thomas hiring Groce to not be running away with this list compared to our conference peers... When this program is in the right hands, it is literally self-sustaining and has such a high ceiling. We all want more Tournament success, but it will come if we keep getting back there with decent seeds ... and I believe in Underwood to do just that, as he has so far! Some more stats for those interested:
#1 SEEDS
Purdue: 5 (1988, 1994, 1996, 2023, 2024)
Michigan State: 5 (1990, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2012)
ILLINOIS: 4 (1989, 2001, 2005, 2021)
Ohio State: 4 (1991, 1992, 2007, 2011)
Michigan: 3 (1985, 1993, 2021)
Indiana: 3 (1987, 1993, 2013)
Wisconsin: 1 (2015)
Maryland: 1 (2022)
Minnesota: 1 (1997)
Iowa: 0
Nebraska: 0
Penn State: 0
Northwestern: 0
Rutgers: 0
TOTAL NCAA TOURNAMENT APPEARANCES (Last Appearance)
Michigan State: 33 (2024)
Purdue: 30 (2024)
Indiana: 27 (2023)
ILLINOIS: 26 (2024)
Wisconsin: 25 (2024)
Maryland: 23 (2023)
Michigan: 23 (2022)
Ohio State: 22 (2022)
Iowa: 21 (2023)
Minnesota: 12 (2019)
Nebraska: 8 (2024)
Penn State: 5 (2023)
Rutgers: 4 (2022)
Northwestern: 3 (2024)
AVERAGE NCAAT SEED (At Least 20 Appearances)
Ohio State: 4.36
Purdue: 4.77
Michigan: 4.91
ILLINOIS: 4.92
Indiana: 5.26
Michigan State: 5.27
Maryland: 5.30
Wisconsin: 5.72
Iowa: 6.62
TOP FOR EACH SPECIFIC SEED (#2-#4)
#2 Seeds: Ohio State (5), Purdue/Michigan/Michigan State/Indiana (3)
#3 Seeds: Michigan (6), Purdue (5), ILLINOIS (4)
#4 Seeds: ILLINOIS (6), Indiana/Maryland (5)
Some more interesting numbers for this week:
How many 3 seeds have won the NCAA?
Since 1985, No. 3 seeds have had ten title game appearances, going 4-6 in those contests. Texas Tech was the last to appear (lost to Virginia in 2019)
How many 3 seeds have won the NCAA?
Since 1985, No. 3 seeds have had ten title game appearances, going 4-6 in those contests. Texas Tech was the last to appear (lost to Virginia in 2019)
| Seed | Number of Champs | Percentage of Champs |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 24 | 63% |
| 2 | 5 | 13% |
| 3 | 4 | 11% |
| Since the NCAA Tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985, #3 seeds have gone a combined 281-148 (65.5%) in tournament games. | ||
|---|---|---|
I’ll take sustained success over a “coach of the year” any day.
Let’s make a run now so we can add NCAA tourney wins.
The illini certainly CAN beat anybody. Think they can put 6 more in a row together? I’ll be filling out my bracket tomorrow
Edit: this prob should’ve been in tournament thread
Edit: this prob should’ve been in tournament thread
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Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
imagine if he knew what he was doing
This may be an unpopular opinion but I trust the fine folks here to disagree with me with valid points that tells me why I might be seeing this wrong.
I love TSJ. Not in some creepy old man kind of way (though I haven't given that much thought and times are changing). I love watching him play basketball. I love the competitiveness he brings and the joy he seems to get from the game.
That being said (to keep my "Illini Fan Card"), the brand of basketball of bullying your way in to contact with a defensive (defenseless in most cases) player is not good for the game. I get upset any time I see a player jump in to one of ours to get a foul called. Outside of his tremendous 3 point shooting ability, Shannon has made a heck of a lot of points driving hard into defending players.
I have no idea how this can be balanced out. I have no idea what the defender is actually supposed to do there. The intention of the player on offense is to initiate the contact. The defender is screwed. There is no defense, short of taking a charge, and those calls are so scrutinized that it's hard to get ("well his left foot was moving just a little bit when contact was made there.")
I, 100% support playing the game within the framework of the rules as they exist today but it's something I hope they take a look at at some point in the future for the sake of some balance.
Extra thought: I think it's possible you might see an aggressive offensive player being called for fouls outside of those aggressive moves that allow the officials to balance the game a bit. I get a sense that has happened a bit in the last few games.
Anyways, just a thought I had this morning while waiting patiently for the Illini to take down Morehead (wut?)
I love TSJ. Not in some creepy old man kind of way (though I haven't given that much thought and times are changing). I love watching him play basketball. I love the competitiveness he brings and the joy he seems to get from the game.
That being said (to keep my "Illini Fan Card"), the brand of basketball of bullying your way in to contact with a defensive (defenseless in most cases) player is not good for the game. I get upset any time I see a player jump in to one of ours to get a foul called. Outside of his tremendous 3 point shooting ability, Shannon has made a heck of a lot of points driving hard into defending players.
I have no idea how this can be balanced out. I have no idea what the defender is actually supposed to do there. The intention of the player on offense is to initiate the contact. The defender is screwed. There is no defense, short of taking a charge, and those calls are so scrutinized that it's hard to get ("well his left foot was moving just a little bit when contact was made there.")
I, 100% support playing the game within the framework of the rules as they exist today but it's something I hope they take a look at at some point in the future for the sake of some balance.
Extra thought: I think it's possible you might see an aggressive offensive player being called for fouls outside of those aggressive moves that allow the officials to balance the game a bit. I get a sense that has happened a bit in the last few games.
Anyways, just a thought I had this morning while waiting patiently for the Illini to take down Morehead (wut?)
The one thing you might be missing is how fast he is moving. This isn’t a guy driving the lane at an average pace. He’s flying down the lane, so fast, that the defender can’t adjust in a timely manner. TSJ is a freak, in this regard. That’s why they say they don’t know what you’re supposed to do there. It happens so fast that it’s almost humanly impossible to react that fast. JMO
- Status