Illini Basketball 2024-2025

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#326      
Illinialldayeveryday
the juiceman cometh said:
Seriously, what has happened to this team defensively? Earlier in the year I remember our defense being rated much higher than our offense. I think at one point we were close to a top 10 defense, but now Kenpom has our Ortg at #15 and Drtg at #31.
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The Scout is out. I hate to beat a dead horse, but the last 3 years the defense has declined as season went on by a large margin.
 
#327      
mysterio2525
the juiceman cometh said:
Seriously, what has happened to this team defensively? Earlier in the year I remember our defense being rated much higher than our offense. I think at one point we were close to a top 10 defense, but now Kenpom has our Ortg at #15 and Drtg at #31.
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I'm hoping it's his sickness impacting effort, injury impacting depth, and in conference teams knowing how to exploit that.

But we know it's more than that with the internal turmoil as well. It's been a bad string of luck for sure but no good adjustments make by coaching staff to read the terrain. Perfect storm of crap!

jurassic park deal with it GIF
 
#328      
21ChampaignSt
It might be as simple as - we go as KJ goes.

The individual Game Score metric is meant to quantify the overall value that a player adds in a game. Transparently, I don't know how strong this metric is.

But, before the MSU game at East Lansing, KJ's average Game Score against high major opponents was 13.8.

Since, the IU game he has only exceeded 13.8 twice, against Minnesota and UCLA.

In high major games where KJ does not perform to his average, we are 5-8.

The only game we've lost all year when KJ has played well was @Northwestern.

Good KJ: 7-1
No KJ: 1-1
Bad KJ: 5-8
 
#329      
Battle89
21ChampaignSt said:
It might be as simple as - we go as KJ goes.

The individual Game Score metric is meant to quantify the overall value that a player adds in a game. Transparently, I don't know how strong this metric is.

But, before the MSU game at East Lansing, KJ's average Game Score against high major opponents was 13.8.

Since, the IU game he has only exceeded 13.8 twice, against Minnesota and UCLA.

In high major games where KJ does not perform to his average, we are 5-8.

The only game we've lost all year when KJ has played well was @Northwestern.

Good KJ: 7-1
No KJ: 1-1
Bad KJ: 5-8
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Yet some in the game thread that said we play better without him. Bolded would seem to support that since we have not seen 'good KJ' for a while. I miss him and his 7-1 play.
 
#330      
zuma
Is Tre White really 6'7" ??? (as he's listed)
 
#336      
jrichisamazing
21ChampaignSt said:
It might be as simple as - we go as KJ goes.

The individual Game Score metric is meant to quantify the overall value that a player adds in a game. Transparently, I don't know how strong this metric is.

But, before the MSU game at East Lansing, KJ's average Game Score against high major opponents was 13.8.

Since, the IU game he has only exceeded 13.8 twice, against Minnesota and UCLA.

In high major games where KJ does not perform to his average, we are 5-8.

The only game we've lost all year when KJ has played well was @Northwestern.

Good KJ: 7-1
No KJ: 1-1
Bad KJ: 5-8
Click to expand...

It's kind of crazy how bad KJ's bad games are. When you talk about bad games for most stars, that means being passive offensively, or having a bad shooting night, or just being kind of invisible for whatever reason. But all those examples are much better than the bad games KJ has. Not only does he struggle to score, but he also gives up some of the worst live ball turnovers you still see, and many times it leads to easy buckets. I really can't think of other recent examples of "stars" in college basketball that hurt their team so much when they are playing poorly.
 
#337      
21ChampaignSt
jrichisamazing said:
It's kind of crazy how bad KJ's bad games are. When you talk about bad games for most stars, that means being passive offensively, or having a bad shooting night, or just being kind of invisible for whatever reason. But all those examples are much better than the bad games KJ has. Not only does he struggle to score, but he also gives up some of the worst live ball turnovers you still see, and many times it leads to easy buckets. I really can't think of other recent examples of "stars" in college basketball that hurt their team so much when they are playing poorly.
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Right. Related to what @Battle89 said above - sometimes he's flat out unplayable. I'm not saying we should give him the Tre White treatment or anything, because he's obviously really really good. But maybe he needs a shorter leash.
 
#338      
Fighter of the Nightman
Someone asked the great and depressing question the other day ... have we ever had a team that seemed in freefall in late February that has actually recovered? For those wishing to wallow in our misery right now, these were some of the most memorable collapses in my lifetime as a fan, lol.

2022-23
High Point: December 9. 7-2 record and ranked #17 after defeating #2 Texas at Madison Square Garden - our second top 10 victory of that young season.
First Collapse: Absolutely punked by PSU at home on December 11, which kicked off a 2-3 stretch, including Skyy Clark leaving the team.
False Hope: A January 7 victory vs. #14 Wisconsin kicked off a streak of winning 7 of 8, with the only loss being a pretty big red flag 80-65 loss to Indiana at home. Even after tough one-possession losses at Iowa and #14 Indiana, we still picked up two top 25 victories and were sitting at 19-9 on the morning of February 26.
Final Letdown: Completely uninspired double-digit loss at OSU in the infamous Matthew Myers Energy Drink game. A double OT win vs. an NIT Michigan team at home is the only thing that stood between this team and ending the year on a 5-game losing streak. Finishing touches were an infuriating third loss to PSU in front of a partisan Illini crowd at the UC and a total dud of a performance vs. Arkansas in the NCAA Tournament.

2013-14
High Point: January 7. 13-2 record and ranked #23, including some recent thrilling rivalry wins over #23 Missouri and Indiana, an a tough, hard-fought loss to #15 Oregon in Portland.
First Collapse: After getting demolished 95-70 on January 8 in what supposed to be a hyped up matchup in Madison, we lost 10 of 11 games, lol.
False Hope: Won 4 out of 5 games from February 19 to March 8 (including road wins at #18 Michigan State and #24 Iowa) gave us at least a prayer of making the NCAA Tournament. This hope was further stoked by beating Indiana in our first BTT game.
Final Letdown: A heart-breaking 1-point loss to #8 Michigan in the BTT Quarterfinals officially kills our hopes of Dancin', as Tracy Abrams' floater comes up short. This is likely the beginning of the end of the Groce Era, too, even though it was just his second season.

2011-12
High Point: December 17. 10-0 record and ranked #19, including an exciting home win vs. #19 Gonzaga. For a moment, many of those who had turned on Weber even started to wonder if we had finally got back on track.
First Collapse: An uninspiring 64-48 loss to UNLV in front of a big crowd at the United Center raises a red flag for this squad, and it kicks off a stretch of losing 3 of 5 games, with the only wins being a 4-point win at home vs. Cornell and a double OT win at home vs. an NIT Minnesota team.
False Hope: 3-game winning streak ends with a thrilling win vs. #5 Ohio State (the BP3 43-point game!), getting us back up to 15-3 and earning us a #22 ranking on the morning of January 19.
Final Letdown: A CLASSIC disappointing 54-52 road loss at PSU and a heartbreaking loss at home to Wisconsin when we desperately needed a win kicks off a stretch of losing 12 of our final 14 games, culminating in a 3-point loss to Iowa in the BTT and Bruce Weber being fired.

For comparison ... this is how this year is currently looking. :(

2011-12
High Point: January 11. 12-3 record, #13 ranking, riding a 5-game winning streak (including a historically awesome 109-77 win at #9 Oregon) and 2 of our 3 losses were in OT on the road or on a buzzer-beater to #1.
First Collapse: Other than an awesome win at Indiana, a 2-4 record from January 11 to February 1 leaves many fans concerned. While some point to our injuries and illnesses, the red flags were certainly appearing (the culmination of this stretch being a sickening loss at Nebraska).
False Hope: Even with another dud loss at Rutgers, a victory vs. a red-hot UCLA team on February 11 gave the Illini a 3-1 record in our last 4 games, and we finally looked healthy again. With a 17-8 record and a top 15 MSU team coming to town, we were a win away from being truly back on track for a decent seed.
Final Letdown: A vomit-inducing second half collapse vs. MSU (including having -2 points in the last 6+ minutes, lol) is caused by going away from the exact things that gave us an early lead. An array of terribly selected bricks from 3-point land earn us a loss at a crucial turning point of the season. A humiliating loss at Wisconsin the next Tuesday just might be the straw that broke the camel's back and opened the flood gates.

Hope I'm wrong, and I'll never "not support" the Illini ... but for my own mental health, I am not tying up any hope in this team.
 
#339      
Battle89
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Someone asked the great and depressing question the other day ... have we ever had a team that seemed in freefall in late February that has actually recovered? For those wishing to wallow in our misery right now, these were some of the most memorable collapses in my lifetime as a fan, lol.

2022-23
High Point: December 9. 7-2 record and ranked #17 after defeating #2 Texas at Madison Square Garden - our second top 10 victory of that young season.
First Collapse: Absolutely punked by PSU at home on December 11, which kicked off a 2-3 stretch, including Skyy Clark leaving the team.
False Hope: A January 7 victory vs. #14 Wisconsin kicked off a streak of winning 7 of 8, with the only loss being a pretty big red flag 80-65 loss to Indiana at home. Even after tough one-possession losses at Iowa and #14 Indiana, we still picked up two top 25 victories and were sitting at 19-9 on the morning of February 26.
Final Letdown: Completely uninspired double-digit loss at OSU in the infamous Matthew Myers Energy Drink game. A double OT win vs. an NIT Michigan team at home is the only thing that stood between this team and ending the year on a 5-game losing streak. Finishing touches were an infuriating third loss to PSU in front of a partisan Illini crowd at the UC and a total dud of a performance vs. Arkansas in the NCAA Tournament.

2013-14
High Point: January 7. 13-2 record and ranked #23, including some recent thrilling rivalry wins over #23 Missouri and Indiana, an a tough, hard-fought loss to #15 Oregon in Portland.
First Collapse: After getting demolished 95-70 on January 8 in what supposed to be a hyped up matchup in Madison, we lost 10 of 11 games, lol.
False Hope: Won 4 out of 5 games from February 19 to March 8 (including road wins at #18 Michigan State and #24 Iowa) gave us at least a prayer of making the NCAA Tournament. This hope was further stoked by beating Indiana in our first BTT game.
Final Letdown: A heart-breaking 1-point loss to #8 Michigan in the BTT Quarterfinals officially kills our hopes of Dancin', as Tracy Abrams' floater comes up short. This is likely the beginning of the end of the Groce Era, too, even though it was just his second season.

2011-12
High Point: December 17. 10-0 record and ranked #19, including an exciting home win vs. #19 Gonzaga. For a moment, many of those who had turned on Weber even started to wonder if we had finally got back on track.
First Collapse: An uninspiring 64-48 loss to UNLV in front of a big crowd at the United Center raises a red flag for this squad, and it kicks off a stretch of losing 3 of 5 games, with the only wins being a 4-point win at home vs. Cornell and a double OT win at home vs. an NIT Minnesota team.
False Hope: 3-game winning streak ends with a thrilling win vs. #5 Ohio State (the BP3 43-point game!), getting us back up to 15-3 and earning us a #22 ranking on the morning of January 19.
Final Letdown: A CLASSIC disappointing 54-52 road loss at PSU and a heartbreaking loss at home to Wisconsin when we desperately needed a win kicks off a stretch of losing 12 of our final 14 games, culminating in a 3-point loss to Iowa in the BTT and Bruce Weber being fired.

For comparison ... this is how this year is currently looking. :(

2011-12
High Point: January 11. 12-3 record, #13 ranking, riding a 5-game winning streak (including a historically awesome 109-77 win at #9 Oregon) and 2 of our 3 losses were in OT on the road or on a buzzer-beater to #1.
First Collapse: Other than an awesome win at Indiana, a 2-4 record from January 11 to February 1 leaves many fans concerned. While some point to our injuries and illnesses, the red flags were certainly appearing (the culmination of this stretch being a sickening loss at Nebraska).
False Hope: Even with another dud loss at Rutgers, a victory vs. a red-hot UCLA team on February 11 gave the Illini a 3-1 record in our last 4 games, and we finally looked healthy again. With a 17-8 record and a top 15 MSU team coming to town, we were a win away from being truly back on track for a decent seed.
Final Letdown: A vomit-inducing second half collapse vs. MSU (including having -2 points in the last 6+ minutes, lol) is caused by going away from the exact things that gave us an early lead. An array of terribly selected bricks from 3-point land earn us a loss at a crucial turning point of the season. A humiliating loss at Wisconsin the next Tuesday just might be the straw that broke the camel's back and opened the flood gates.

Hope I'm wrong, and I'll never "not support" the Illini ... but for my own mental health, I am not tying up any hope in this team.
Click to expand...
Fighter, need to edit your last year above to 24-25
 
#341      
the juiceman cometh
jrichisamazing said:
It's kind of crazy how bad KJ's bad games are. When you talk about bad games for most stars, that means being passive offensively, or having a bad shooting night, or just being kind of invisible for whatever reason. But all those examples are much better than the bad games KJ has. Not only does he struggle to score, but he also gives up some of the worst live ball turnovers you still see, and many times it leads to easy buckets. I really can't think of other recent examples of "stars" in college basketball that hurt their team so much when they are playing poorly.
Click to expand...
I don't think you actually have to look too too far. Egor Demin has been a bit of a turnover machine, and inconsistent performer, for BYU too. And KJ's worst games have all been against good competition, with the exception of the Oakland game, whereas Demin has had stinkers against ASU, UCF, Providence, and TCU.
 
#342      
Snoopy
KJ hasn't seemed fully right since the mysterious arm injury. He and Tomi were so comically bad at Wisconsin I have to assume they were sick, injured or both.
 
#344      
IMPE Legend
alaskaillini said:
He is dealing with kids that have a choice where they will play next year. This is much like the NBA where players have to be catered to and cajoled into playing for the team.
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There are few coaches who can recruit, inspire/encourage, and actually team X's and O's. NIL makes the recruiting part lessened in importance. Money brings players. Per you Underwood's lifetime "encouragement" technique is no longer usable, and its pretty well established that he is not a good X's and O's go(example: obvious). So what exactly is Underwood's worth? He is paid a lot of money, but seemingly has little impact once the checks are written...which anyone can do(and OA might be all that's necessary). Seems like Brad is coaching his way out of relevancy.
 
#350      
DevILLDawg
Top 10 nationally vs. LM opponents.

Should make a good resume bullet point for Hamer as an Assistant at Grinnell.
 
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