Illini Basketball 2025-2026

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#526      
grue2
21ChampaignSt said:
On the other hand, the top 7 free throw shooters of all time (and like 99 of the top 100?) shot free throws traditionally. Why shoot it like Barry when you can shoot it like Steph...and look less ridiculous in doing so?

No doubt vanity plays a role and yeah, if you've reached Shaq level free throw shooting ineptitude, it can't hurt to experiment with different techniques. But you also can't fault a guy for using the same technique as 99% of history's greatest free throw shooters.
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I question the validity of this argument in multiple dimensions:

1) There is no comparison data. For all we know even the best shooters may have been better had they switched. 99% of the best high jumpers did not use the Fosbury Flop for a long time after it was introduced. "It looked stupid."

2) The argument is being based on statistical outliers (Curry, Shaq) vs. the central 99% of the data. The stats indicate that it is hard to be an 85%+ FT shooter using the standard method. It is really easy to become an 85%+ FT shooter using the Barry method. 90% is quite achievable.

Open challenge: Watch a video on the technique and then try it in your driveway. If you are not over 80% within your first hour of serious trying, please report back. If I can do it (non BB player), I expect pretty much anyone can.

If the goal is to increase the FT accuracy of 99% of the players, the Barry method is the way to go. There will always be outliers for whom a different method is better/close (e.g. Curry).
 
#527      
3 point girl
What about the Korean basketball league where they shoot the free throws off the backboard and bank them in? I think they average over 80% on that technique!!! :)
 
#528      
Emerson Bigguns
#529      
21ChampaignSt
grue2 said:
I question the validity of this argument in multiple dimensions:

1) There is no comparison data. For all we know even the best shooters may have been better had they switched. 99% of the best high jumpers did not use the Fosbury Flop for a long time after it was introduced. "It looked stupid."

2) The argument is being based on statistical outliers (Curry, Shaq) vs. the central 99% of the data. The stats indicate that it is hard to be an 85%+ FT shooter using the standard method. It is really easy to become an 85%+ FT shooter using the Barry method. 90% is quite achievable.

Open challenge: Watch a video on the technique and then try it in your driveway. If you are not over 80% within your first hour of serious trying, please report back. If I can do it (non BB player), I expect pretty much anyone can.

If the goal is to increase the FT accuracy of 99% of the players, the Barry method is the way to go. There will always be outliers for whom a different method is better/close (e.g. Curry).
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My point is that the Barry method is the outlier. It is one single example. There are 14 players who shot 89% or better from the line for their career. Why do we single out the 8th place guy as having the best method. Didn't at least 7 other guys prove their method is better? What about Kyler Filewich of Woffard who switched to underhand shooting last year to the tune of 31% after being a 40 to 50% shooter the first 3 years of his career?

If it were a substantially better method like the two handed backhand vs the one handed backhand in Juiceman's tennis example, then over time you would see a shift. Even the article Juiceman shared said the granny method is only "slightly" better for the already skilled free throw shooter and that for less skilled players, overhand is the safer option.

It found that if the player is capable of controlling the release angle and speed well, the underarm throw has slightly better odds of going in. But for amateurs who have only crude control, the release of the ball overarm is safer

I'm open minded about this. And I believe that underhand might be better in theory, but I still haven't seen any real world evidence that it's more effective in practice.
 
#530      
grue2
21ChampaignSt said:
My point is that the Barry method is the outlier. It is one single example. There are 14 players who shot 89% or better from the line for their career. Why do we single out the 8th place guy as having the best method. Didn't at least 7 other guys prove their method is better? What about Kyler Filewich of Woffard who switched to underhand shooting last year to the tune of 31% after being a 40 to 50% shooter the first 3 years of his career?

If it were a substantially better method like the two handed backhand vs the one handed backhand in Juiceman's tennis example, then over time you would see a shift. Even the article Juiceman shared said the granny method is only "slightly" better for the already skilled free throw shooter and that for less skilled players, overhand is the safer option.

It found that if the player is capable of controlling the release angle and speed well, the underarm throw has slightly better odds of going in. But for amateurs who have only crude control, the release of the ball overarm is safer

I'm open minded about this. And I believe that underhand might be better in theory, but I still haven't seen any real world evidence that it's more effective in practice.
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Your argument only holds if there are lots of people using both methods such that a statistically meaning comparison can be made. If you want to use the outlier data then how about "the one* person using it made the top 10 out of ~5k using the other method. That is either an irrelevant point as one data point, or hugely in favor of the method.

A major difference between the Barry method and the two-handed backswing is appearance. The two handed backswing doesn't "look silly." I think the Fosbury Flop is a closer example. It is now the standard. It took a long time to appear due to "looking silly." It got adopted because it was use the Fosbury Flop or lose. The Barry method is worth a few points per game vs. a certain loss. My ego is worth a few points.
 
#531      
grue2
All I can say is try it. I'm a non-BB player. My best position is IR (injured reserve). I couldn't shoot 30% FT overhand after an hour of practice. Within an hour of self training the Barry method I could hit 80% underhand. The motion is much simpler and thus easier to replicate.
 
#532      
IllinoisssssssVarsity
3 point girl said:
Shaq shot thousands of free throws in practice but no matter how many reps he had he still couldnt make them in games due to poor form. My friend who coached him in the 1994 FIBA World Cup games in Toronto tried to get him to shoot them with just the right hand only. He had good success in practice but Shaq told him he didnt want to look like a sissy in the games & wasnt going to do it.
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Shaqs coaches and teammates have plenty of stories about him routinely hitting 70-80 percent in practice. His game issue was mental.
 
#534      
Fighter of the Nightman
IlliniKat91 said:
Athletic Paywall: Best 25 College Basketball Teams of the 2000s

I'll save you the click if you don't have The Athletic:
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Just so everyone can re-contextualize this, there have been 25 different National Championship teams since the 2000 season (with 2020 getting cancelled). There have also been some REALLY good runners-up, as well. For our Illini to be #16 without having cut down the nets really speaks to the legacy and impact that squad had.

If one of those several threes goes in late in that game and we win, we would be top 3 easily, IMO.
 
#535      
Fly Illini Fly!
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Just so everyone can re-contextualize this, there have been 25 different National Championship teams since the 2000 season (with 2020 getting cancelled). There have also been some REALLY good runners-up, as well. For our Illini to be #16 without having cut down the nets really speaks to the legacy and impact that squad had.

If one of those several threes goes in late in that game and we win, we would be top 3 easily, IMO.
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Last one or zero loss national champion - Bob Knight's 1976 Indiana. Illinois would've very much had a case for #1 had they beaten UNC.
 
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#536      
3nDGuy
Any word on how Jakstys is looking in practice??
 
#537      
aveseaboy
first quincy and then will. this team doesn't feel complete without a canadian
 
#540      
Big Jack
illini0440 said:
Tall and Skinny
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Mad Come On GIF by UEFA
 
#544      
Illinilosch
Dan said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1948136308506824757
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Judging from this group pic of all the players, 3 things come to my mind....

1) Ben ain't a single damn centimeter taller than last year. Hell he barely looks a couple inches taller than Keaton Wagler standing right next to him (6'6" tall). BU has to be screwing with the IL fans about him growing a couple inches because quite simply, he hasn't...

2) Brandon Lee looks huge standing next to Andrej Stojakovic. He has to be at least 6'5"...

3) The Twins in the background are just freaking damn tall....as expected.
 
#545      
Chillinini
Illinilosch said:
Judging from this group pic of all the players, 3 things come to my mind....

1) Ben ain't a single damn centimeter taller than last year. Hell he barely looks a couple inches taller than Keaton Wagler standing right next to him (6'6" tall). BU has to be screwing with the IL fans about him growing a couple inches because quite simply, he hasn't...

2) Brandon Lee looks huge standing next to Andrej Stojakovic. He has to be at least 6'5"...

3) The Twins in the background are just freaking damn tall....as expected.
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As for #1, it’s been already said that BU was joking.
 
#546      
CHI 1086
Just left Scotland three weeks ago. Amazing place...and not just for the whiskey!
 
#547      
Illinilosch
Chillinini said:
As for #1, it’s been already said that BU was joking.
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Ok that obviously makes sense. I didn't happen to read that BU was kidding, which of course he had to have been. Think I just concluded after i read about it at first.

But it woulda been kinda cool if Humrichous had just "sprouted up" a couple inches!!

🤣
 
#548      
LvilleILL1
Very early rotation guess (it's early, could change):
PG: Petrovic (28 mpg), Lee (10 mpg).
SG: Boswell (34 mpg), Wagler (8 mpg).
SF: Stojakovic (30 mpg), Davis (10 mpg).
PF: Zvonomir (13 mpg @ 4), Humrichous (15 mpg), Mirkovic (12 mpg).
C: Tomislav (30 mpg), Zvonomir (10 mpg).

Mentioned this before, but there's interest in another guard add. Needs to be the correct piece. These are all subject to change of course.

Few Notes:
-Andrej has looked the part of a high profile transfer. Working on his three a lot more.
-Expect a monster season from Tomislav. Has gotten even bigger and better than last season.
-Wagler and Lee have both flashed, but the biggest stock riser of anyone has been Keaton. Needs to put on weight, but there's high optimism he can contribute right away. Great shooter.
-They staff is confident they can unlock Z, would be a total game changer.
-I know, I know, but a lot of buzz Humrichous has a big bounce back season.

-Mirkovic should be over in the next couple of weeks. Getting a lot closer on Petrovic, the hope is by mid August he's on campus.
 
#550      
21ChampaignSt
LvilleILL1 said:
Very early rotation guess (it's early, could change):
PG: Petrovic (28 mpg), Lee (10 mpg).
SG: Boswell (34 mpg), Wagler (8 mpg).
SF: Stojakovic (30 mpg), Davis (10 mpg).
PF: Zvonomir (13 mpg @ 4), Humrichous (15 mpg), Mirkovic (12 mpg).
C: Tomislav (30 mpg), Zvonomir (10 mpg).

Mentioned this before, but there's interest in another guard add. Needs to be the correct piece. These are all subject to change of course.

Few Notes:
-Andrej has looked the part of a high profile transfer. Working on his three a lot more.
-Expect a monster season from Tomislav. Has gotten even bigger and better than last season.
-Wagler and Lee have both flashed, but the biggest stock riser of anyone has been Keaton. Needs to put on weight, but there's high optimism he can contribute right away. Great shooter.
-They staff is confident they can unlock Z, would be a total game changer.
-I know, I know, but a lot of buzz Humrichous has a big bounce back season.

-Mirkovic should be over in the next couple of weeks. Getting a lot closer on Petrovic, the hope is by mid August he's on campus.
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I'm buying all the Tomislav stock I can this season. Between getting here late last off season and getting mono, I don't think he was ever in great playing shape. I also think he's going to show more of a back to the basket game. He gets really good position just rushes the shot sometimes.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Ben, too. We just need him to play a Jacob Grandison / Quincy Gurrier type role and I believe he's capable of that.
 
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