Illini Basketball 2025-2026

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#301      
BretMyBeachHouse
NarrowJ said:
I think what you've outlined here is where this conversation starts and ends: he's certainly doing enough to keep his job (he's locked in for how many years?) but it needs to be better if we want to be elite.
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I'm responding to this post but also your response to me. I'm glad you see the need to get better. But literally after you posted multiple posts mocked the BU critics by posting all the positives with nary a mention of improvements needed.

Some of us lived through the BAM years. The tenor of Weber supporters to those raising red flags is comparable.

For many of the posters I get the sense they are perfectly content. I'm not.
 
#302      
NarrowJ
BretMyBeachHouse said:
I'm responding to this post but also your response to me. I'm glad you see the need to get better. But literally after you posted multiple posts mocked the BU critics by posting all the positives with nary a mention of improvements needed.

Some of us lived through the BAM years. The tenor of Weber supporters to those raising red flags is comparable.

For many of the posters I get the sense they are perfectly content. I'm not.
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I'm mocking people who want him fired (because face it, that's silly)

Not people who want to see improvement, I even raise my own hand here: lets advance in the tournament... full agreement

I've been very clear about this
 
#304      
EmeraldCityIllini
I’m not sure screaming “adjustments” over and over again and immediately saying “go get Fred Hoiberg, he’d 100% be better than Brad with our resources” is actually lining up when it’s followed up with “hey, what’s wrong with me saying I just want them to be better?”

I guess I don’t see that as a productive critique. At least not at this point in time
 
#305      
Curbelo Fanboy
EmeraldCityIllini said:
Id be curious to see that graph. I legitimately I am curious the number.

I wonder how fans now would handle the 2005 final four team, I actually think quite a few would hold it against Brad as “underachieving” since we were the tourneys first overall seed but finished second
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It was a VERY quick google search. Emphasis on VERY. It was mostly usual suspects with a Gonzaga sprinkled in. 4 is a high bar but our history would suggest its a reasonably attainable goal. We have achieved that in both the 80's & 00's.
 
#306      
Homecoming 2019
#307      
Bigtex
Battle89 said:
Is is possible to just state your case without the snark? First it’s ’just relax’, and then when the guy directly rebuts the teams you mentioned, you double down.

I’m not taking a position because you’re both right. Brad has done a tremendous job here, has a stellar regular season record, and has greatly elevated the program. However that same success has not been fully realized in March.

Just tired of the personal attacks.
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Illini0440 mentions stating facts which I did. I am not anti Underwood as he has taken Illinois from dumpster fire to perennial power but IMO this is about the TOP/expected for underwood coached teams causing me to re-evaluate my expectations. Good to great but far from Elite.

No mention of Firing. Closest thing to negative comment is I don't think Davis should get any significant minutes. We have heard PT is awarded by defense but it must not be equal for all players.
 
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#308      
skyIdub
Let’s not be too harsh on the “crazy” fans y’all.

If you live and love Illinois basketball enough to be so angry and twisted as to suggest firing Brad, or, I don’t know, maybe having a woodpecker as our mascot, keep bringing that crazy!

Just be prepared to be corrected and handed another “drink” while being asked to walk it back a smidge. Don’t take it personally.
 
#309      
bigcityillini
NarrowJ said:
It’s just true. Why are we talking about firing a coach that was just given a lifetime contract and has his team in the top 20, currently, and well as top 15 in NET? That’s abject stupidity.

Good to know all the alcoholics and bar flies you hang out with agree with you, but I’m glad Josh Whitman and the rest of Illini Nation do not. If everyone’s so up in arms then why are we seeing ticket sales like never before and droves of fans packing neutral site arenas?

Edit: Also I am not Tyler Underwood, that is @illini0440 lol
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First, I’m not sure why the tone has gotten so aggressive. Calling people you don’t know “bar flies” and “alcoholics” feels unnecessary and off-base—let’s keep this respectful.

Some of us have higher expectations for this program than simply competing in a mid-tier college basketball conference. The goal should be national relevance—winning and competing against the best programs in the country. Also, why keep referring to this as a “lifetime contract”? He’s 62 and received a five-year extension. What exactly has he accomplished to warrant that level of security? If one Elite Eight run and a few conference titles over eight years justify a lifetime deal, then clearly the expectations for this program aren’t as high as they should be.
 
#310      
Todd99
21ChampaignSt said:
3 second weekends per decade is a good benchmark for our program. I actually don't think 4 is unreasonable.

Slush fund scandal nuked the program in the 70s.

Then we recovered and went to four second weekends in the 80s.

Then the Pearl sanctions nuked the program in the 90s.

Then we went to four second weekends in the 2000s.

Then Weber, Groce, and Mike Thomas nuked the program in the 2010s.

Now, here we are. Stable again at last. Our history suggests that we should be able to get to four second weekends this decade. COVID took away 2020 so, three second weekends in reasonable.

Anyone who thinks that is an unreasonable expectation has a super pessimistic opinion of this program.
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So, if history repeats itself, we have two more second weekends to look forward to in the next five years followed by a decade of futility? This is both comforting and frightening all at once!
 
#311      
NarrowJ
bigcityillini said:
First, I’m not sure why the tone has gotten so aggressive. Calling people you don’t know “bar flies” and “alcoholics” feels unnecessary and off-base—let’s keep this respectful.

Some of us have higher expectations for this program than simply competing in a mid-tier college basketball conference. The goal should be national relevance—winning and competing against the best programs in the country. Also, why keep referring to this as a “lifetime contract”? He’s 62 and received a five-year extension. What exactly has he accomplished to warrant that level of security? If one Elite Eight run and a few conference titles over eight years justify a lifetime deal, then clearly the expectations for this program aren’t as high as they should be.
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I'm just saying you're getting your information re: overall barometer of program success from randos at bars? Who are drinking alcohol? Okay...

Did you just call the B1G a "mid-tier college basketball conference"?

Sorry.. I didn't waste time reading the rest of your post LOL
 
#312      
Fly Illini Fly!
bigcityillini said:
First, I’m not sure why the tone has gotten so aggressive. Calling people you don’t know “bar flies” and “alcoholics” feels unnecessary and off-base—let’s keep this respectful.

Some of us have higher expectations for this program than simply competing in a mid-tier college basketball conference. The goal should be national relevance—winning and competing against the best programs in the country. Also, why keep referring to this as a “lifetime contract”? He’s 62 and received a five-year extension. What exactly has he accomplished to warrant that level of security? If one Elite Eight run and a few conference titles over eight years justify a lifetime deal, then clearly the expectations for this program aren’t as high as they should be.
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CHATGPT alert ⚠
 
#313      
bigcityillini
NarrowJ said:
I'm just saying you're getting your information re: overall barometer of program success from people at bars? Who are drinking alcohol? Okay...

Did you just call the B1G a "mid-tier college basketball conference"?

Sorry.. I didn't waste time reading the rest of your post LOL
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Never said anything about drinking alcohol. They serve food and non-acholic drinks at a lot of bars in America. Should try going out sometime!

"Did you just call the B1G a "mid-tier college basketball conference"?" - Yes. What would you call a conference that hasn't won a ship since Y2K. The big ten does not perform well in March and does not produce the level of NBA guys that other conferences do. That is a fact.
 
#314      
EmeraldCityIllini
bigcityillini said:
First, I’m not sure why the tone has gotten so aggressive. Calling people you don’t know “bar flies” and “alcoholics” feels unnecessary and off-base—let’s keep this respectful.

Some of us have higher expectations for this program than simply competing in a mid-tier college basketball conference. The goal should be national relevance—winning and competing against the best programs in the country. Also, why keep referring to this as a “lifetime contract”? He’s 62 and received a five-year extension. What exactly has he accomplished to warrant that level of security? If one Elite Eight run and a few conference titles over eight years justify a lifetime deal, then clearly the expectations for this program aren’t as high as they should be.
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Are you actually under the impression the big ten is a “mid tier basketball conference”?

This is again where id ask, how many coaches outside of Cal, can you name where they went to even just 3 tournaments in a row as a single digit seed that were fired?
 
#315      
bigcityillini
EmeraldCityIllini said:
Are you actually under the impression the big ten is a “mid tier basketball conference”?

This is again where id ask, how many coaches outside of Cal, can you name where they went to even just 3 tournaments in a row as a single digit seed that were fired?
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The conference hasn't won a title since Y2K lol. Look at any data point and it would tell you nationally the big ten is below the Big 12, ACC, SEC and even the Big East most years (not this year). If you're the 5th or 6th best CBB conference, then yeah id call you mid-tier.
 
#316      
BretMyBeachHouse
NarrowJ said:
I'm mocking people who want him fired (because face it, that's silly)

Not people who want to see improvement, I even raise my own hand here: lets advance in the tournament... full agreement

I've been very clear about this
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You have been very clear. Many others haven't. That was my point.
 
#318      
bigcityillini
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The fact that he wrote the big ten is a "mid-tier college basketball conference" further incentivizes he didn't write any of that. AI is impressive.... until it isn't.
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dude i have no idea why you don't think people can naturally type in a professional manner lol. If you have a disagreement that is fine. But this is childish my guy.
 
#319      
NarrowJ
bigcityillini said:
Never said anything about drinking alcohol. They serve food and non-acholic drinks at a lot of bars in America. Should try going out sometime!

"Did you just call the B1G a "mid-tier college basketball conference"?" - Yes. What would you call a conference that hasn't won a ship since Y2K. The big ten does not perform well in March and does not produce the level of NBA guys that other conferences do. That is a fact.
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I do go out occasionally, and I have a few bar flies and even an alcoholic or two within my family lineage... love them but would not trust their opinions on many things, especially if that opinion is to fire Brad Underwood... you started with "people in bars all across the midwest" and now we're talking about 100% sober people who happen to "be at bars all across the midwest"... smells fishy to me, I'll disengage from this part of the convo at this point

Also can't engage with an argument that B1G is mid-tier, sorry... that's just wrong and you know it and its another argument you'll never win
 
#320      
21ChampaignSt
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The fact that he wrote the big ten is a "mid-tier college basketball conference" further incentivizes he didn't write any of that. AI is impressive.... until it isn't.
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No dog in this fight, but as someone who writes a fair amount and works directly with professional writers, the em dash isn't the AI indicator people think it is. The em dash predates LLM's and can be found in the Chicago Manual of Style. The reason it has become so widely incorporated into AI responses is because AI writing is modeled from content written by real people—content that uses em dashes to good effect.
 
#321      
NarrowJ
21ChampaignSt said:
No dog in this fight, but as someone who writes a fair amount and works directly with professional writers, the em dash isn't the AI indicator people think it is. The em dash predates LLM's and can be found in the Chicago Manual of Style. The reason it has become so widely incorporated into AI responses is because AI writing is modeled from content written by real people—content that uses em dashes to good effect.
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I agree with this and my wife is a professional writer and says the same

However half of his posts are articulate and contain em dashes (though the actual content contained within them has been been based on pure fantasy), while the other half of them read like this:

bigcityillini said:
dude i have no idea why you don't think people can naturally type in a professional manner lol
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#322      
EmeraldCityIllini
Curbelo Fanboy said:
It was a VERY quick google search. Emphasis on VERY. It was mostly usual suspects with a Gonzaga sprinkled in. 4 is a high bar but our history would suggest its a reasonably attainable goal. We have achieved that in both the 80's & 00's.
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Don’t disagree at all. The jump between 3 and 4 in 10 years is a big one, but one I think a reasonable BIG goal… id also add that 9 out of 10 of those years I personally would expect a seed below a 7 and a big ten title to boot or two to boot.

With underwood having 5 tournaments thus far, I really don’t think he’s far off the 3 in 10 Hope to begin with.
 
#323      
pweo
EmeraldCityIllini said:
3 in 10 Hope
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IMO this is the key difference between the two sides of this debate. Hope vs Expectation. Do you think that Illinois basketball should hope that we reach the achievements we had in the 80's/2000's or do you expect that level of performance to be the norm? I was a kid in the 80's and remember the scene on Green Street during the run in 2005. My bar has been set high.

It's also why I hate the current state of the Bulls, but that's a whole other conversation.
 
#324      
NarrowJ
EmeraldCityIllini said:
Don’t disagree at all. The jump between 3 and 4 in 10 years is a big one, but one I think a reasonable BIG goal… id also add that 9 out of 10 of those years I personally would expect a seed below a 7 and a big ten title to boot or two to boot.

With underwood having 5 tournaments thus far, I really don’t think he’s far off the 3 in 10 Hope to begin with.
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Another way I look at this is that we're upset with one 2nd weekend, but given the bar set at 3 in a decade, what if we had 2 halfway through the decade? We've been to rd of 32 four times... one of them being an E8

So if out of Brad's 277 games coached for Illinois, if he wins one singular more game, everybody is happy? Is that the really the huge gray area here? 1 game out of 277?
 
#325      
EmeraldCityIllini
pweo said:
IMO this is the key difference between the two sides of this debate. Hope vs Expectation. Do you think that Illinois basketball should hope that we reach the achievements we had in the 80's/2000's or do you expect that level of performance to be the norm? I was a kid in the 80's and remember the scene on Green Street during the run in 2005. My bar has been set high.

It's also why I hate the current state of the Bulls, but that's a whole other conversation.
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I think I should have wrote “goal” instead of hope. As that is what I meant.

I totally agree with you there is a two sides here when it comes to expectations/what the future holds.

I think the “anti” believe this is underwood’s ceiling in that the team will win a ton of regular season games, overwhelm a bad seed (this is no small feat btw, I actually remain impressed with blitzing Xavier like we did), before falling to a team of similar talent in round of 32.

Where I fall personally, I guess the “pro” is that I believe the tournament is quite fickle. Even the elite coaches have had multiple epic flameouts in round 1 and many 1 seeds have lost in round of 32. My belief is that yes, underwood will reach that goal if continually stacks 20+ win seasons, top 5-6 seeds, nba pros.. I think the math over the long haul works in your favor to a pretty high degree , so I simply don’t believe the sample size at the moment in terms of just tourney results. I also believe the Covid year robbed him of a really good opportunity not only in that tourney, but all those guys getting insanely valuable experience in the tourney.
 
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