Illini Basketball 2026-2027

Status
Not open for further replies.
#876      
NarrowJ
PepeSilvia said:
I like Jake a lot but claiming he might be the best backup in the country(or one of them) is an insane homer take.

Duke will be bringing one of Boozer or Foster off the bench and Davis would be lucky to even see the court on that roster. MSU is potentially bringing Jervis off the bench. Michigan might be bringing McCoy off the bench. USC is likely bringing Jalen Cox off the bench. And so on.

I'll give you that Z would likely start on a lot of teams and is a huge luxury, but top bench guys look like Michigan bringing Mckenney off the bench last year(along with Gayle and Cason).
Click to expand...

Well... I said "might be" because I expected someone like you to call me an "insane homer" (or some other silly ad hominem thing which serves no purpose other than to insult someone).

Anyway, his ORtg last year was 149.0 which led the nation. He's insanely good at what he does, which is a lot different than what Boozer/Foster do.

Cayden Boozer ORtg 122.1
Caleb Foster ORtg 119.0

This isn't to say Jake is more valuable than those guys because they are ballhandlers.

Really was meaning "at their respective positions" - Jake is a wing, Big Z is a center, Boozer is a point guard, and I guess Foster is a combo guard.

If he's 2nd best, instead of 1st... is it really an "insane homer take" or was I off by, like, maybe a guy or two?

So, in summary:

- "might be", not "is"
- "at their respective positions"
- maybe he's 2nd or 3rd best instead of the best (at his position)

Didn't mean to irritate anyone with this "insane homer take".
 
Last edited:
#877      
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?
I don't think it's crazy to say we aren't AS DEEP as the other top teams.

Even this podcast acknowledges it briefly:

(35:41)

Whether you think that will hurt us, is a different question; as they do go on to say the top 8 will get the overwhelming minutes, as Fly Illini alluded to.

But, injuries can definitely play a factor.

I personally think we'll be fine as long as Zens, Brown, or Lincoln is able to be the same level of 9th man we've had in past years, EXCLUDING Petrovic last season. It's always been my stance.
 
Last edited:
#878      
lstewart53x3
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr? said:
I don't think it's crazy to say we aren't AS DEEP as the other top teams.

Even this podcast acknowledges it briefly:

(35:41)

Whether you think that will hurt us, is a different question; as they do go on to say the top 8 will get the overwhelming minutes, as Fly Illini alluded to.

But, injuries can definitely play a factor.

I personally think we'll be fine as long as Zens, Brown, or Lincoln is able to be the same level of 9th man we've had in previous years, excluding Petrovic. It's always been my stance.
Click to expand...
Yes, there’s a decently large drop off after our 8th man. No one on the other side of this debate has argued otherwise.

What we’ve argued is: how much does that matter?

— We had no 9th man last year. Made the F4.
— Even our best 9th men under Brad have averaged something like 2 points per game. That has a tiny impact on winning and almost no impact at all on the NCAA tournament when rotations shrink.
— No team can replace an injured starter with a 9th man and continue to be as good of a team. So while some 9th man’s might be better than ours, no teams 9th man is starter quality.
— In fact, what most teams would do in the event of an injury, us included, is simply shrink the rotation.

Our argument isn’t that we have the best 9th man in college basketball, it’s that the 9th man is almost meaningless to winning games, so we aren’t all that worried about it.
 
#879      
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?
NarrowJ said:
Well... I said "might be" because I expected someone like you to call me an "insane homer" (or some other silly ad hominem thing which serves no purpose other than to insult someone).

Anyway, his ORtg last year was 149.0 which led the nation. He's insanely good at what he does, which is a lot different than what Boozer/Foster do.

Cayden Boozer ORtg 122.1
Caleb Foster ORtg 119.0

This isn't to say Jake is more valuable than those guys because they are ballhandlers.

Really was meaning "at their respective positions" - Jake is a wing, Big Z is a center, Boozer is a point guard, and I guess Foster is a combo guard.

If he's 2nd best, instead of 1st... is it really an "insane homer take" or was I off by, like, maybe a guy or two?

So, in summary:

- "might be", not "is"
- "at their respective positions"
- maybe he's 2nd or 3rd best instead of the best (at his position)

Didn't mean to irritate anyone with this "insane homer take".
Click to expand...
Jake would be lucky to see the court on this year's Duke team (which I think is deeper and more talented than last year).

Same for the Michigan team that just won the title.

Those are the teams I'd label as "elite depth."

It's not really my expectation to be as talented as those teams, Duke has always been an anomaly for talent acquisition, but if you're comparing their depth to ours.... it's just not in the same ballpark. I'd agree Foster and Boozer are different players, but they have elite talent all over.
 
Last edited:
#880      
NarrowJ
lstewart53x3 said:
Yes, there’s a decently large drop off after our 8th man. No one on the other side of this debate has argued otherwise.

What we’ve argued is: how much does that matter?

— We had no 9th man last year. Made the F4.
— Even our best 9th men under Brad have averaged something like 2 points per game. That has a tiny impact on winning and almost no impact at all on the NCAA tournament when rotations shrink.
— No team can replace an injured starter with a 9th man and continue to be as good of a team. So while some 9th man’s might be better than ours, no teams 9th man is starter quality.
— In fact, what most teams would do in the event of an injury, us included, is simply shrink the rotation.

Our argument isn’t that we have the best 9th man in college basketball, it’s that the 9th man is almost meaningless to winning games, so we aren’t all that worried about it.
Click to expand...

The most important and significant part of the bench is obviously the 6th and 7th guys, and to a degree the 8th guy.

And I stand by my ridiculous homer take that we have the best backup center in the country as well as a top 2/3ish backup wing in the country.

The #9thman is fools gold.
 
#881      
Fly Illini Fly!
NarrowJ said:
Well... I said "might be" because I expected someone like you to call me an "insane homer" (or some other silly ad hominem thing which serves no purpose other than to insult someone).

Anyway, his ORtg last year was 149.0 which led the nation. He's insanely good at what he does, which is a lot different than what Boozer/Foster do.

Cayden Boozer ORtg 122.1
Caleb Foster ORtg 119.0

This isn't to say Jake is more valuable than those guys because they are ballhandlers.

Really was meaning "at their respective positions" - Jake is a wing, Big Z is a center, Boozer is a point guard, and I guess Foster is a combo guard.

If he's 2nd best, instead of 1st... is it really an "insane homer take" or was I off by, like, maybe a guy or two?

So, in summary:

- "might be", not "is"
- "at their respective positions"
- maybe he's 2nd or 3rd best instead of the best (at his position)

Didn't mean to irritate anyone with this "insane homer take".
Click to expand...
He might be 2nd or 3rd best backup wing in the Big Ten. Not the entire country.
 
#882      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
Click to expand...
I'm struggling to see the first round draft hype with Mirkovic.

Hes not quick enough to play the 4 in the league, and he's not big/tall enough to play the 5. Really fits the mold of a great, multi year college player.

The only way I might see it is if he has a Cam Boozer, Luka Garza, TJD, Kofi type season. Basically averaging like 20 and 10 and national player of the year. But that's also not likely given how much talent is in this starting 5. I honestly have more doubts he'll be our leading scorer (Vaaks or Stojakovic).
 
#884      
NarrowJ
Fly Illini Fly! said:
He might be 2nd or 3rd best backup wing in the Big Ten. Not the entire country.
Click to expand...

Start naming them

(I believe you, I'm just an insane homer over here lol... but the guy who led the nation in ORtg and also has another year under his belt is probably a pretty awesome backup)


WhereDoWeStandWithStorr? said:
Jake would be lucky to see the court on this year's Duke team (which I think is deeper and more talented than last year).

Same for the Michigan team that just won the title.

Those are the teams I'd label as "elite depth."

It's not really my expectation to be as talented as those teams, Duke has always been an anomaly for talent acquisition, but if you're comparing their depth to ours.... it's just not in the same ballpark. I'd agree Foster and Boozer are different players, but they have elite talent all over.
Click to expand...

I was merely clearing up that Jake doesn't comp to those guys as he's a connector/wing and they're point/combo guards

Nobody on this site that I know of has claimed we have more depth than Duke (nobody does)
 
#885      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
Jake would be lucky to see the court on this year's Duke team (which I think is deeper and more talented than last year).

Same for the Michigan team that just won the title.

Those are the teams I'd label as "elite depth."

It's not really my expectation to be as talented as those teams, Duke has always been an anomaly for talent acquisition, but if you're comparing their depth to ours.... it's just not in the same ballpark. I'd agree Foster and Boozer are different players, but they have elite talent all over.
Click to expand...
who said we have more depth than Duke?
 
#886      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
He might be 2nd or 3rd best backup wing in the Big Ten. Not the entire country.
Click to expand...
Start naming them

(I believe you, I'm just an insane homer over here lol... but the guy who led the nation in ORtg and also has another year under his belt is probably a pretty awesome backup)
Click to expand...
I think he's second.

Christian Collins at USC is their backup wing, and is a top 5 freshman and projected lottery pick.
 
#888      
hoopsfan47
Buying or selling the Illini hoops team? I can't imagine being a daily reader/poster of this site and not being a buyer....EVERY SEASON. I have been for 70 years and I am not an Illini alum...though I have many ties and interests with the University of Illinois. If you are not highly interested in this year's team then why waste a second here?

This will be a talented and veteran group taking the floor in the Illini uniform. We have high expectations and should have. And we should expect BU to once again put the pieces together while these kids develop a passion of playing for each other....and a national title. Sure, they are not likely to win it all, but they will win enough games to provide a rivetting season for us all.

Is the first game tomorrow? It should be.
 
#889      
Rap47
It is amazing how many of you posters know how good our freshmen are going to be. No one knew anything about Wagler at this time last year and several are saying none of this year's team can be a 9th man.
 
#890      
logjam
Hey gentlemen...anything else we could talk about...?
 
#891      
MULEDOG35
NarrowJ said:
Well... I said "might be" because I expected someone like you to call me an "insane homer" (or some other silly ad hominem thing which serves no purpose other than to insult someone).

Anyway, his ORtg last year was 149.0 which led the nation. He's insanely good at what he does, which is a lot different than what Boozer/Foster do.

Cayden Boozer ORtg 122.1
Caleb Foster ORtg 119.0

This isn't to say Jake is more valuable than those guys because they are ballhandlers.

Really was meaning "at their respective positions" - Jake is a wing, Big Z is a center, Boozer is a point guard, and I guess Foster is a combo guard.

If he's 2nd best, instead of 1st... is it really an "insane homer take" or was I off by, like, maybe a guy or two?

So, in summary:

- "might be", not "is"
- "at their respective positions"
- maybe he's 2nd or 3rd best instead of the best (at his position)

Didn't mean to irritate anyone with this "insane homer take".
Click to expand...
Happy Homer Simpson GIF
 
#892      
PepeSilvia
NarrowJ said:
Well... I said "might be" because I expected someone like you to call me an "insane homer" (or some other silly ad hominem thing which serves no purpose other than to insult someone).

Anyway, his ORtg last year was 149.0 which led the nation. He's insanely good at what he does, which is a lot different than what Boozer/Foster do.

Cayden Boozer ORtg 122.1
Caleb Foster ORtg 119.0

This isn't to say Jake is more valuable than those guys because they are ballhandlers.

Really was meaning "at their respective positions" - Jake is a wing, Big Z is a center, Boozer is a point guard, and I guess Foster is a combo guard.

If he's 2nd best, instead of 1st... is it really an "insane homer take" or was I off by, like, maybe a guy or two?

So, in summary:

- "might be", not "is"
- "at their respective positions"
- maybe he's 2nd or 3rd best instead of the best (at his position)

Didn't mean to irritate anyone with this "insane homer take".
Click to expand...
Im not saying "insane homer take" as an insult. Just a take that you're only ever going to hear from the Illini fan base.

I don't think Jake would appear among top bench pieces from any neutral fans or general consensus.
 
#893      
PepeSilvia
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Well, he legitimately might be the worst defender on the team. Not saying he can’t improve, but the word seems to be it was very bad last year (and is definitely a downgrade from Keaton and Kylan).
Click to expand...
I didn't watch Providence enough to give a super great answer and college basketball individual defensive ratings are kind of a mess.

However, so much about being a decent defender is just effort and a lot of how you will look depends on the situation you are in(teammates around you and what you're asked to do in the scheme).

Providence was the 170th ranked defense in the country per Kenpom. Take any individual Illini last year and place them on Providence and they would look way worse on defense.

Vaaks has all the physical traits to be a serviceable defender and I don't think effort will be an issue playing under Brad. Plus, he will be surrounded by way more talent in a scheme designed for him to cover up his flaws on that end.
 
#894      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
who would you have in front of him in the b1g?

mckenney and mccoy prob both start for mich

lajuan watts prob a starter for wash

kur teng maybe? only guy i can think of but wouldnt completely rule out him being starter either
Click to expand...
Christian Collins at USC. He is a "backup wing" projected to come off the bench, and is a top 5-10 freshman and projected first rounder.
 
#895      
hodgesonfire
Combo said:
Absent, god forbid, serious injury, I'm not worried about our depth. You generally use an 8-man rotation. We're very good 1-7. Morillo is likely to be 8th and he's a top 50 recruit who can contribute at multiple positions. After that, I'm confident we can get a few minutes our of Williams, Brown, JJ, etc.

Now if something happens to one of our top 7 guys, everything changes. I actually think our most crucial guy is Vaaks. He just looks like the perfect PG for what we do offensively. I don't think we have anyone else like that on our roster.
Click to expand...
I think without Ben the team is a bit thin defensively at the post. Will need Jason J to step up because there are only 4 bigs on the roster.
 
#896      
Fly Illini Fly!
hodgesonfire said:
I think without Ben the team is a bit thin defensively at the post. Will need Jason J to step up because there are only 4 bigs on the roster.
Click to expand...
Jason J. getting legitimate minutes would mean two things:
1) None of our trio of Zens, Brown, and Williams are ready for any sort of limited minutes role (or as some would say #9thMan role).
2) We're likely battling one or two injuries to our top 8.
 
#897      
RollChief
hodgesonfire said:
I think without Ben the team is a bit thin defensively at the post. Will need Jason J to step up because there are only 4 bigs on the roster.
Click to expand...
Honestly I think the biggest defensive liability is Vaaks. He’s going to be so essential to our offensive engine but I feel like I’ve seen him get cooked several times both on Providence and playing for Estonia over the summer. Going to need him to not be an iso target.

I would bet Mirk takes another step defensively this year, and I bet Jake does as well. Jake took a substantial step up last year and was more than serviceable, some marginal athletic gains over the summer probably makes him a bit better of a defensive asset.
 
#898      
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?
hodgesonfire said:
I think without Ben the team is a bit thin defensively at the post. Will need Jason J to step up because there are only 4 bigs on the roster.
Click to expand...
And thats my concern. Jason Jakstys being the 9th best player on other final four contending teams is very unlikely.

It just signifies depth issues, along with the freshman underperforming and not being good enough to play here (if it were to turn out that way).
 
#899      
bavanga3
PepeSilvia said:
I didn't watch Providence enough to give a super great answer and college basketball individual defensive ratings are kind of a mess.

However, so much about being a decent defender is just effort and a lot of how you will look depends on the situation you are in(teammates around you and what you're asked to do in the scheme).

Providence was the 170th ranked defense in the country per Kenpom. Take any individual Illini last year and place them on Providence and they would look way worse on defense.

Vaaks has all the physical traits to be a serviceable defender and I don't think effort will be an issue playing under Brad. Plus, he will be surrounded by way more talent in a scheme designed for him to cover up his flaws on that end.
Click to expand...
He was part of the reason they were ranked 170th. He has a lot of work to do in that area and Brad has shown a knack for fixing that.
 
#900      
NarrowJ
PepeSilvia said:
Im not saying "insane homer take" as an insult. Just a take that you're only ever going to hear from the Illini fan base.

I don't think Jake would appear among top bench pieces from any neutral fans or general consensus.
Click to expand...

Appreciate you walking this back a bit. What you say is true -- most normal fanbases don't spend an entire summer talking about bench players.

I'm still sort of wondering who we rank above him as a wing off the bench, though. I'm sure there are guys out there, but Jake has a good enough resume we don't have to say someone is crazy / homer for thinking it:

1) Was 6th/7th guy on a F4 team and has another summer under his belt
2) Led the nation in ORtg
3) 2nd in the nation in turnover rate
4) Shot 41% from 3
5) Doesn't suck defensively
6) Said to be leader in the locker room

I saw a list somewhere, but would be interested to see yours to compare. McKenney and McCoy both likely start for Michigan. Or we thinking Teng? That's a reasonable one, because I'll assume they're going to start Bonke/Ward up front (Carr would work at the 4, but would be 'small ball' lineup).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back