Illini Basketball

BBIQ · Mar 22, 2022

Keisersose said:
I thought his comments were mostly reasonable. The only one I strongly disagree with is “nothing to show for it”. But I dont remember him saying that and hadn’t seen it til just now.

I def would have liked to be playing another game or four, but we have a B1G championship and a BTT championship to show for it. Those are “big deals”.

Let’s keep building this thing!! Go Illini!!!

Did you hear the comments he made about recruiting and Ayo? I didn't put it in my first post cause I knew people would go nuts about it. I thought that was really unfair. He basically said he would use BU's system against him in recruiting. Then he said he would tell a kid, look where Ayo was drafted. he's an NBA all rookie team (or something to that effect) and got drafted in the second round cause Underwood didn't know how to use him and set ball screens for him.

That one had me scratching my head. He said this part in the transition with Laurence Holmes.

Spirit of the Prairie · Mar 22, 2022

Emerson Bigguns said:
Agreed. I think the kid is going to be a stud, but Ayo and Ivey both played starter's minutes their freshman year. (Johnny davis too) There is no substitute for in-game action. The speed, the nerves, the emotion, the officiating, the in game adjustments... You can't simulate those things. You have to experience them to get comfortable. That comfort allows players to play freely and confidently.

Is is possible? Sure! Likely? I don't think so...

Agree, and want to point out that the same argument applies to, for example, putting Podz in more often and/or for longer periods; same with other players who never or almost never get to play - and that's been true even WHEN the players who are kept in for long minutes are not doing well. We all saw good things happen when Goode, Melendez, and Podz were put in; same with Payne and VerDonk. We also saw "bad" things happen, but good and bad are true for ALL of the players. The percentages just go up with more playing time.

DMWSuperFan · Mar 22, 2022

WyattEarp said:
2.) 4 out 1 in…refers to the formation that they initially start out in. It is not an offense, in and of itself…And yes you’re right. I don’t think he gets it at all…We’ve got a an All-American D.Mutumbo-type center with a back to the basket skill set. What does he think Underwood should do? Play 5 out Nelly-Ball completely ignoring our team’s unique personnel situation in favor of doing what’s in vogue…just because? Bad idea.

4 out 1 in is an offensive game plan, it’s not just about the initial setup.

My high school team used to do it because we had a 6’8” center than was useful past 12’, and then 4 guards.

The offensive scheme itself is not outdated, however Kofi just battling for position and us swinging the ball around, occasionally a ball screen when we can’t just pass it is outdated.

For 4 out 1 in to be effective, Kofi needs to be setting back screens and guys need to be rotating around the outside more. It really should be more like a 5 man motion except that any time Kofi cycles to the outside, he either screens someone and gets back inside or someone sets a back door screen for him

Spirit of the Prairie · Mar 22, 2022

I just now watched the video of Underwood addressing the team after the last game. The comment, "Know you're a champion" should become our motto.
Yes, the song says, "Let our motto be, Victory, Illinois..." but "Know you're a champion" are pretty stirring words.
Illinois crowds need to be louder and to "dominant erupt" like other crowds do and we need a strong chant in addition to I-L-L....I-N-I. I suggest VICTORY - ILLINOIS, VICTORY-ILLINOIS and then begin I-L-L ... I-N-I.
Let's get it going for next season! Know you're a champion!

Ga65 · Mar 22, 2022

bluemountain said:
Now that the dust has settled and I can look back on the year objectively, we definitely overachieved during the regular season. In terms of talent, UM and PU were clearly a level above everyone else, with OSU and MSU, maybe Iowa in the next tier. After that you have us, Wisky, IU and Rutgers. So the fact we tied for the championship is pretty impressive. Kofi and an underrated defense made up for some serious deficiencies elsewhere. If I could request one do-over, it would be to start transitioning RJ and Goode in place of Plummer and DMW earlier in the season so that by year-end they were more even in terms of minutes. I love what both DMW and Plummer brought to the table, but the reality is while combined they make one heck of a player, individually they are role players who should be playing 15 or so minutes/game. RJ and Goode have far higher upside and it would have been interesting to see how they would have performed had they seen more minutes earlier on. However, that is a small criticism in the grand scheme of things; winning the Big 10 with AC less than his normal self and all the other injuries, etc was impressive.

As fans, believe we had an inflated image of how far this team could go. Because of the experience our floor was quite high. On the other hand our ceiling wasn’t that high with Trent, DMW, Alphonse, and Jake being pretty much fully developed. With Belo injured a possible development piece did not happen. Really think ceiling is higher next year but really need Kofi to increase his range and several players to take the next step. Ceiling for Belo, Hawk, RJ, and Dain is quite high but certainly not guaranteed. Really like our size possibilities throughout the lineup and agree with those that have said we are getting closer to BU’s vision.

Birdus · Mar 22, 2022

sacraig said:

Man this is rude dude! What did I say that needs to be deleted? The Big is NOT the best conference as has already been proven in the tourney. I would argue that the ACC and Big 12 have proven their wear this year. It all comes down to advancing. Now if Purdue and Michigan were to advance to the final four, that might change things but... Also, if you read through the rest of the thread, many people agree with me. Maybe you read the post without thinking to much into it. Izzo and Underwood are good friends. Izzo has a championship and many final four runs. His teams play loose in the tournament. And that OTHER team they lost to, DUKE whom they almost beat is very very good. My only point was, there is something to be learned there. I bleed orange and blue like you do and I love Underwood. I love our direction and our future! Go ILLINI!

armo859 · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
Found Bernstein's comments. I don't think he was bagging on us unfairly. I think he was being sincere and made some decent points. Here is what he said.

Underwood has done a nice job putting a floor in for the program. Didn't say he stinks or anything. Just needs to adjust his system.

Here were his criticisms.

1. Don't set enough ball screens for guards to get good shots or get to the basket. (fair)

2. System 4 out 1 in is a dated offense and easy to guard. (I think this was a product of personnel and Bernstein doesn’t get that)

3. How can you complain about defensive rebounding when you have 4 guys around the arc. (fair)

4. Sampson went to the NBA to learn offense. High pick n roll leads to open corner 3's. We don't use the corner well.

5. Don't get anything going downhill. We don't have guards that can take their man off the dribble so you need to set more screens.

6. Shouldn't have benched Curbelo, I know he played like garbage but he's a high variance guy and he could play us back into the game. Said, if I'm Curbelo I'm gone. Transferring immediately. How could you trust Underwood after that? Said maybe there is something else there we don’t know about. (TCTORNADO said there was an argument with staff at half so…)

7. Can’t come out of a timeout and make an end bound pass (fair point). You can't turn the ball over when you are the one initiating the action.

8. Underwood's done some great things but has to adjust. You had two all-time greats in program history 2 years in a row and have nothing to show for it.

Interesting. Especially the speculation that Curbelo had an argument with the coaches at half and punished by benching. Best case, it's a lesson that sticks. It reminds me of some times we grounded our daughters when they were very young. The pain of missing out on something they were looking forward to was a powerful tool. Not that it rises to same level, I still wonder why did Payne spend the entire game on the bench? He might have mixed it up with the Houston bigs a little.

Keisersose · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
Did you hear the comments he made about recruiting and Ayo? I didn't put it in my first post cause I knew people would go nuts about it. I thought that was really unfair. He basically said he would use BU's system against him in recruiting. Then he said he would tell a kid, look where Ayo was drafted. he's an NBA all rookie team (or something to that effect) and got drafted in the second round cause Underwood didn't know how to use him and set ball screens for him.

That one had me scratching my head. He said this part in the transition with Laurence Holmes.

I did not hear that. That’s ridiculous.
We all know the NBA doesn’t draft a player based on how he’s used in college. LOL.

The counter to that is that Underwood’s coaching helped Ayo be ready to perform at this level and be in position to earn tens of millions of dollars in the NBA.

WhiteHorseWings · Mar 22, 2022

Newmark4thFloor said:
View attachment 16585

Not bad. Not bad. Now you

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505955921410863104

Yeah but that was with the appendix

FrankNitty30 · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
Did you hear the comments he made about recruiting and Ayo? I didn't put it in my first post cause I knew people would go nuts about it. I thought that was really unfair. He basically said he would use BU's system against him in recruiting. Then he said he would tell a kid, look where Ayo was drafted. he's an NBA all rookie team (or something to that effect) and got drafted in the second round cause Underwood didn't know how to use him and set ball screens for him.

That one had me scratching my head. He said this part in the transition with Laurence Holmes.

Brad should counter with Ayo saying that he was prepared to play defense in the NBA because of how well he was taught at Illinois.

armo859 · Mar 22, 2022

Bleedorangeandblue44 said:
Thanks for recap - I had only heard the Mully show this morning and was going off a poster on yesterday's show.

I will say No. 8 is ridiculous. I mean it's a product of the NCAA Tournament of being the be all and end all to so many people, but winning the Big Ten tournament and Big Ten regular season in back-to-back years and all the great Big Ten wins it took to do that (especially on the road and especially against rivals like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, MSU and Indiana who have been killing us for about 10 straight years), that is not "nothing to show for it." The last three years really with Ayo and Kofi, I can't imagine there's anyone here who thinks we have "nothing to show" for all the great play those two and others have displayed.

Just got to find a way to combine the regular season Big Ten success with tournament success, which I'm sure is everyone inside the program's sole focus right now. Whether it's raising talent level, changing schemes...I trust they are going to get it right.

Excellent rejoinder on #8. By that standard, 67 teams per season could say they had nothing to show for it. I also appreciate the point someone made that it has been forever since we actually even went to the big dance two years in a row....

Illini92and96 · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
Did you hear the comments he made about recruiting and Ayo? I didn't put it in my first post cause I knew people would go nuts about it. I thought that was really unfair. He basically said he would use BU's system against him in recruiting. Then he said he would tell a kid, look where Ayo was drafted. he's an NBA all rookie team (or something to that effect) and got drafted in the second round cause Underwood didn't know how to use him and set ball screens for him.

That one had me scratching my head. He said this part in the transition with Laurence Holmes.

Geesh. So the fact we had a player drafted and he became first team all rookie will be used against us? So averaging 20.1 PPG was underachieving, and he would have averaged 25-30 if he was used right? What a stupid line of thinking.

Birdus · Mar 22, 2022

Roundball Sage said:
Big Ten teams are geared to playing ‘Big Ten’ basketball. Spirited, tough, defensive-minded. Other teams are built to play Big Dance ball. Flashier and more flowing. Generally more athletic.

Yes, Big Ten teams have had success in the past in the tournament. But not really enough (lately) given how highly some B1G programs think of themselves.

The big name-plate programs still remain Gonzaga, Duke, Baylor, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, Arizona... based upon their body of work the past ten years or so.

Generally, they attract the high-star guys due to their program’s prominent status and wide media exposure. UCLA has made strides to get back up into that group again. Some SEC teams are getting close to the upper reaches now that the word is out it’s not just a football conference any more. Some Texas schools besides Baylor are getting good.

Other programs like Marquette and De Paul and Louisville who used to live high in the rankings have slipped from that perch and haven’t been able to get back up there. Georgetown, too.

Illinois right now is stuck one notch below the high Blue Bloods. The Orange has elevated up from the middle pack and into the upper solid program level. But the past two years has proven that one more big step up must be taken.

The big name coaches and big name programs will remain where they are until someone else can break through and join the party. Illini Nation knows who we want to see break through the glass ceiling and join the most high perches.

Coaches can get caught up in the day-to-day concerns of running the team and providing for the well-being of these young men. The off season gives the coaching staff a chance to take a step back and evaluate where the program is and what it needs to do to build from the foundation they have laid down.

Yes, Illini Nation. We are hungry. But we can’t let our eagerness for success just add to the pressure that the Illini roundball program already feels. They feel the pressure and our hopes and they want badly to give us what we all want.

Just play ball, guys. Put the best team on the floor every night and guys that will give it their all and we can live with the results. Continue to make the program a place where top guys want to come and where they know they will succeed. That’s what they want. And that’s what we want.

For me, the bar this year was set at Sweet Sixteen at least. It remains there for next season even with all the Illini roster changes. And maybe Elite Eight. That would be a solid step to the Promised Land.

You know, UCONN, NOVA, Indiana, LOUISVILLE, M. STATE all have multiple titles and they are still considered less than BLUE.

Birdus · Mar 22, 2022

GForce said:
All those guys can beat their man off the dribble. It's when they get to the basket against athletic bigs that they run into trouble. RJ has the height and athleticism to overcome that on the regular.

I do not like Michigan but this is what they are doing. Their wings and guards are penetrating to the rack and either finishing or dishing off for an easier shot. They are drawing a lot of fouls in the process.

Birdus · Mar 22, 2022

Punesguy said:
While it is really frustrating to be in the position again this year of watching 16 other teams play, the reality is that in short order, BU and his staff(s) have done a tremendous job of making Illinois basketball relevant again. Two regular season titles (if calculated correctly), a BIG tourney championship, a 1 & 4 seed in back to back years, 3 solid Freshman that will become Sophomores, 3 really athletic recruits, possibly a 5 star transfer from UK and a culture we can all be proud of! What caused our shortcomings in this year's dance are most likely a combination of injuries (Trent and Jake), missed practices, lack of athleticism, awful luck, inept in-bound plays, untimely turnovers and horrific shooting (17 of 50 for 34.0% from 2 and 6 of 25 for 24% from 3). We, along with 5 other top 4 seeds will be watching teams like the mighty Peacocks of St. Peter's who lost to: VCU, St. John's, Providence, Siena (twice), St. Francis, Stony Brook, Canisius, Iona and Rider. Anyone can be beaten on any given day which is what makes March Madness so wonderful. Our future is incredibly bright and our time will come ... ILL!

Now I could be wrong but from what I saw in the tournament, that 5 star recruit may need to stay at Kentucky. I think he could make a case for starting next year. I really did not see much from Ty Ty that really impressed me to much.

Tacomallini · Mar 22, 2022

WhiteHorseWings said:
Yeah but that was with the appendix

still a.m. where I'm at, and that made me spit coffee laughing

Dee_4_Three_83 · Mar 22, 2022

Newmark4thFloor said:
View attachment 16585

Not bad. Not bad. Now you

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505955921410863104

RJ is a very talented Freshman, and I really hope that he fills out the stat sheet like Ivey in his future years, maybe with a little more consistency? From what I have seen of Ivey, he seems to zone out a bit sometimes. I would be happy to see his average next year at around 14 pts, 5 rebs, 2 assists per game.

Homecoming 2019 · Mar 22, 2022

Dee_4_Three_83 said:
RJ is a very talented Freshman, and I really hope that he fills out the stat sheet like Ivey in his future years, maybe with a little more consistency? From what I have seen of Ivey, he seems to zone out a bit sometimes. I would be happy to see his average next year at around 14 pts, 5 rebs, 2 assists per game.

Happy?! I'm over the moon if he's close to those averages.

Dee_4_Three_83 · Mar 22, 2022

Homecoming 2019 said:
Happy?! I'm over the moon if he's close to those averages.

Given his ability to shoot from outside and get his own shot by driving to the basket, I don't think it's unrealistic. It probably just depends on how much BU trusts him on the defensive end in terms of how much time he gets on the court. My guess is he will average at least twice as many minutes next year.

727ill · Mar 22, 2022

Birdus said:
Now I could be wrong but from what I saw in the tournament, that 5 star recruit may need to stay at Kentucky. I think he could make a case for starting next year. I really did not see much from Ty Ty that really impressed me to much.

I don't think TyTy was healthy at the end of the year. When he was healthy he looked as advertised. Really explosive and great mid-range game.

frozenrope9190 · Mar 22, 2022

Bleedorangeandblue44 said:
Thanks for recap - I had only heard the Mully show this morning and was going off a poster on yesterday's show.

I will say No. 8 is ridiculous. I mean it's a product of the NCAA Tournament of being the be all and end all to so many people, but winning the Big Ten tournament and Big Ten regular season in back-to-back years and all the great Big Ten wins it took to do that (especially on the road and especially against rivals like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, MSU and Indiana who have been killing us for about 10 straight years), that is not "nothing to show for it." The last three years really with Ayo and Kofi, I can't imagine there's anyone here who thinks we have "nothing to show" for all the great play those two and others have displayed.

Just got to find a way to combine the regular season Big Ten success with tournament success, which I'm sure is everyone inside the program's sole focus right now. Whether it's raising talent level, changing schemes...I trust they are going to get it right.

Im a huge Bernstein fan, been listening to him since 1995 and met him several times. I do think, however, the Curbelo comment is a sign he hasnt watched much college hoops this season, only the tourney games. (He admits he doesnt like the college game and is much more into the pro game and the pro individual players). BU has ridden Curbelo through cold streaks ever since he came back from his illness. this was one of the first times he wasnt riding him, and to me it had a little to do with finding consistent offense since we werent getting it from anyone. Certainly not a cause to immediately transfer.

Dee_4_Three_83 · Mar 22, 2022

frozenrope9190 said:
Im a huge Bernstein fan, been listening to him since 1995 and met him several times. I do think, however, the Curbelo comment is a sign he hasnt watched much college hoops this season, only the tourney games. (He admits he doesnt like the college game and is much more into the pro game and the pro individual players). BU has ridden Curbelo through cold streaks ever since he came back from his illness. this was one of the first times he wasnt riding him, and to me it had a little to do with finding consistent offense since we werent getting it from anyone. Certainly not a cause to immediately transfer.

Just looking at BU facial expression when he said "Coach's decision", I would speculate that something went on in the locker room during halftime. Just a guess, but BU's past instances of riding AC seem to suggest that.

phats22 · Mar 22, 2022

Illini92and96 said:
Geesh. So the fact we had a player drafted and he became first team all rookie will be used against us? So averaging 20.1 PPG was underachieving, and he would have averaged 25-30 if he was used right? What a stupid line of thinking.

Bob Cousy award is obviously given to the worst PG. Confusing as to why so many misunderstood that for so many years

Cook · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
The only thing BU did that upset me was when Kofi caught that ball in the corner, got trapped and he didn't call timeout. He had all 4 timeouts at the time and it was obvious that was gonna be a turnover. I like BU a lot. I hope everyone understands those were Bernstein's comments not mine.

I don't think coaches can call live ball time outs. Kofi or a player would have had to call it. Agree that I'd like to see BU use his time outs more freely though.

jrichisamazing · Mar 22, 2022

I've said this already....but I will probably keep saying it because I wouldn't mind seeing it happen. I wonder if BU wants to go back to his spread offense if Kofi leaves. Hawkins, RJ, and Dainja could really excel at the pinch post IMO. You could even throw Goode their at times. And Rogers could be a beast their too, although I'm not sure how ready he will be as a freshman.