Illini Basketball

21ChampaignSt · Mar 22, 2022

jrichisamazing said:
I've said this already....but I will probably keep saying it because I wouldn't mind seeing it happen. I wonder if BU wants to go back to his spread offense if Kofi leaves. Hawkins, RJ, and Dainja could really excel at the pinch post IMO. You could even throw Goode their at times. And Rogers could be a beast their too, although I'm not sure how ready he will be as a freshman.

I think he's already shown us that he is willing to change his offense and defense to fit his personnel (which is so refreshing BTW). Our offense and defense is currently tailored to fit the generational talent that is Kofi Cockburn. IMO there's no question that our style of play will look drastically different whenever Kof leaves. Picture how much open space we'll have under the basket for our athletic wings to rip through and drive.

Regardless of personnel, I anticipate the constant with BU's teams being an emphasis on defense, rebounding, and effort.

SescIllini · Mar 22, 2022

Ayo got drafted in the second round as the #38 pick because GMs made a mistake. The Bulls also have a great situation for Ayo with veteran players who are willing to support him. With injuries Ayo received more playing time. The values that GM didn't value like his Bball IQ, unselfishness, length and speed, passing, coachability, defense are now on display.

Funny how Ayo who would know best credits BU for teaching him about defense and likely his strong attribute is discounted by "sports gurus".

TheFameProtector · Mar 22, 2022

Dee_4_Three_83 said:
Given his ability to shoot from outside and get his own shot by driving to the basket, I don't think it's unrealistic. It probably just depends on how much BU trusts him on the defensive end in terms of how much time he gets on the court. My guess is he will average at least twice as many minutes next year.

He had one defensive play against Houston that stuck out (in a bad way): a Houston player got the step on him from the corner and he practically gave up on the play. DMW (or basically any other vet minus Plum) would've stuck on his hip and found a way to contest or make the shot uncomfortable. If RJ can commit on that end like DMW, then the sky is the limit and he could absolutely average 25 min/game next year.

WyattEarp · Mar 22, 2022

jrichisamazing said:
I've said this already....but I will probably keep saying it because I wouldn't mind seeing it happen. I wonder if BU wants to go back to his spread offense if Kofi leaves. Hawkins, RJ, and Dainja could really excel at the pinch post IMO. You could even throw Goode their at times. And Rogers could be a beast their too, although I'm not sure how ready he will be as a freshman.

I’m a big fan of the Spread offense too. I was sad when it went away previously. It has some weaknesses but it’s a great offense overall. He brought it back this year briefly when Kofi was out if you recall. I’d guess, him bringing it back is definitely within the realm of possibility.

fuggles · Mar 22, 2022

DMWSuperFan said:
To be fair, 5 1st round picks in 1990. Some mocks this year show 6 big ten players. So my statement is still accurate that we MIGHT see more than that year. I have not checked every year, but big ten has not produced this many 1st picks in a very long time.

And the B1G had 5 in 1989. Another note in the combined years of 1989/1990 drafts multiple B1G teams had multiple first round picks. Michigan, Illinois, Iowa. But the draft rules were different back then. Prop 48, no 1 and done.

Poe's Law · Mar 22, 2022

Emerson Bigguns said:
There will likely be at least 5 this B1G 1st round picks this year.

Obviously: Ivey, Murray, Davis (top 10)

Very likely: Liddell, Branham (top 20)

Would not be a surprise: Christie, T.Williams (#28 & 30 respectively in latest ESPN Mock)

If workouts go great: Houstan, Edey (both projected in top 40 in ESPN's updated Mock)

What about the kid from Nebraska?

TheFameProtector · Mar 22, 2022

SescIllini said:
Ayo got drafted in the second round as the #38 pick because GMs made a mistake. The Bulls also have a great situation for Ayo with veteran players who are willing to support him. With injuries Ayo received more playing time. The values that GM didn't value like his Bball IQ, unselfishness, length and speed, passing, coachability, defense are now on display.

Exactly. Nobody blames Jay Wright for Jalen Brunson falling to the 2nd round. That would be asinine. Scouts underestimated his positives and overestimated his negatives in the draft process. Same thing happened to Ayo and no HC would've produced a markedly better outcome. If you want to blame Underwood for Ayo not having the NCAA tourney success that Brunson had, fine, but that completely ignores that guys like Brunson had 3 first round draft picks alongside them (Brunson was the 4th Nova player selected in the 2018 draft).

There are parts of Underwood's coaching that warrant some level of criticism (though most are relatively minor in the grand scheme), but this type of critique just shows a lack of critical thinking. Most highly successful college teams end up with multiple NBA draft picks. The 2013 Michigan team, for instance, had Trey Burke, Tim Hardaway Jr., Mitch McGary, Nik Stauskas, and Glenn Robinson III as important contributors, along with Caris Levert on the bench. Of course that team went far! Our 2021 team will most likely end up with one second round draft pick, maybe two if Kofi can get selected. There's a chance Belo or Miller ends up making it in the draft, but the odds don't look particularly great for either right now. When you look at the talent-level we had, it's not that surprising that team didn't go the distance. The reason it was a letdown is because of the high seed we had in the tourney, which was a direct result of success in the regular season. In other words, in my humble opinion, Underwood's ability to pile up Ws throughout the regular season ends up being used against him when it comes tourney time. If we were a 7 seed last year and lose in the 2nd round, nobody thinks anything of it. He is judged as underachieving in the tourney, rather than as overachieving in the regular season.

rant over

Gunner23 · Mar 22, 2022

BBIQ said:
The only thing BU did that upset me was when Kofi caught that ball in the corner, got trapped and he didn't call timeout. He had all 4 timeouts at the time and it was obvious that was gonna be a turnover. I like BU a lot. I hope everyone understands those were Bernstein's comments not mine.

All Kofi needed to do is pull a DMFW "throw the ball of the D" move and we don't turn it over. Also, if Kofi pulled that move out, it would have taken until today to find the dude that he launched the ball against.

Knee brace · Mar 22, 2022

Poe's Law said:
What about the kid from Nebraska?

You must be talking about keisei tominaga

Emerson Bigguns · Mar 22, 2022

Poe's Law said:
What about the kid from Nebraska?

He’s testing the waters. Only 185 lbs…40% from the field & 27% from three, suggest he may need to work on his shooting & body. He certainly got better as the year went on. He’s a guy that could pop in workouts. I wouldn’t rule it out.

Gunner23 · Mar 22, 2022

Knee brace said:
View attachment 16591
You must be talking about keisei tominaga

I hear that his FT line defense is incredible.

TheFameProtector · Mar 22, 2022

Emerson Bigguns said:
He’s testing the waters. Only 185 lbs…40% from the field & 27% from three, suggest he may need to work on his shooting & body. He certainly got better as the year went on. He’s a guy that could pop in workouts. I wouldn’t rule it out.

I'd be very, very surprised if he comes back. 5 star with all the physical tools you want in a modern wing along with a knack for getting to the FT line, where his hit rate is 83% (which scouts tend to value more highly than 3P% anyways when projecting shooting touch). Most mocks I've seen have him in the late 1st or early 2nd, and like you said, I think he'll do well in the workout setting.

Illiniindian · Mar 22, 2022

CharliedonSurf said:
That's the greatest feeling of loss I felt after the Houston game.

Not to make excuses, but I am going to anyway.
I think with a healthy Grandison and Trent not suffering from pinkeye, we win that game…

jumpingjack · Mar 22, 2022

Knee brace said:
View attachment 16591
You must be talking about keisei tominaga

Raise your hand if you... Nope, not you Keisei.

KnoxIllini2 · Mar 22, 2022

I’ve read minimal posts in this thread and I am certain most has been said so I apologize for any redundancy. I was down for our guys. It was also hard to stomach anything Illini basketball, but the show must go on.

The love and appreciation that I have for our seniors, and all the guys that have worn the orange and blue for our Fighting Illini, but Trent and Da’Monte have been here since the beginning of the Underwood era. They ARE the foundation. Ayo and Kofi are beautiful center pieces and will be names associated with Illinois for the rest of eternity. Who knows, maybe Kofi does come back for one more year?

Trent and Da’Monte should be remembered just as fondly. They represent what it is to be ultimate teammates and be team first players.

Trent went from ball dominate lead guard to a defender that would smother the opposing teams lead guard. It is ludicrous that Trent’s defense was not even considered for DPOY recognition. He has the respect of his teammates and competitors around the conference. He was the heart and soul of Illinois because he played with his heart and soul every.damn.day.

As most know, (and if you don’t now you will!) I am a heavily biased Peoria Illini fellow. DMFW is the enforcer of enforcers. He will get into your face and then promptly put the ball in your groin while saving it from going out of bounds (he might have smiled a few times at others pain). Not to mention DMFW would guard players way taller than him and hold his own, or more often than not, win the matchup. What other 6’4” forwards in America played all 5 positions this season? Was it awesome all the time? Lord no. Did it get the job done? Sometimes? Was it ugly and beautiful all at the same time? Kinda?

Trent and Da’Monte leave as having the most games and starts in Illinois history. They have also won B1G Regular Season and Tournament Championships in back to back seasons. That’s pretty flocking awesome.

Next season will be weird without Trent and Da’Monte, but their passion, intensity and presence will be ingrained into every team BU coaches for Illinois. They were here for the inception in 2017, where they now leave as established founders and legacies of the Every Day Guys Culture.

skyIdub · Mar 22, 2022

KnoxIllini2 said:
I’ve read minimal posts in this thread and I am certain most has been said so I apologize for any redundancy. I was down for our guys. It was also hard to stomach anything Illini basketball, but the show must go on.

The love and appreciation that I have for our seniors, and all the guys that have worn the orange and blue for our Fighting Illini, but Trent and Da’Monte have been here since the beginning of the Underwood era. They ARE the foundation. Ayo and Kofi are beautiful center pieces and will be names associated with Illinois for the rest of eternity. Who knows, maybe Kofi does come back for one more year?

Trent and Da’Monte should be remembered just as fondly. They represent what it is to be ultimate teammates and be team first players.

Trent went from ball dominate lead guard to a defender that would smother the opposing teams lead guard. It is ludicrous that Trent’s defense was not even considered for DPOY recognition. He has the respect of his teammates and competitors around the conference. He was the heart and soul of Illinois because he played with his heart and soul every.damn.day.

As most know, (and if you don’t now you will!) I am a heavily biased Peoria Illini fellow. DMFW is the enforcer of enforcers. He will get into your face and then promptly put the ball in your groin while saving it from going out of bounds (he might have smiled a few times at others pain). Not to mention DMFW would guard players way taller than him and hold his own, or more often than not, win the matchup. What other 6’4” forwards in America played all 5 positions this season? Was it awesome all the time? Lord no. Did it get the job done? Sometimes? Was it ugly and beautiful all at the same time? Kinda?

Trent and Da’Monte leave as having the most games and starts in Illinois history. They have also won B1G Regular Season and Tournament Championships in back to back seasons. That’s pretty flocking awesome.

Next season will be weird without Trent and Da’Monte, but their passion, intensity and presence will be ingrained into every team BU coaches for Illinois. They were here for the inception in 2017, where they now leave as established founders and legacies of the Every Day Guys Culture.

80'sIllini · Mar 22, 2022

WyattEarp said:
I’m clearly not on the staff…so what I think doesn’t amount to hill of beans. BUT I gotta say I agree with a lot of what you’re saying
here…I’ve thought along similar lines

The 4 around 1 thing, with Kofi was a given with his size and abilities. No doubt, having an All-American post player is a good problem to have. Lol. But it created some problems too…(it could get stagnant, predictable, clogged)

Depending on the line-up, but more often than not…what we often got was:
guards at the slots…wings at free-throw line extended…Kofi standing and posting

Yes, indeed we’d try for a quick post or a post after a ball reversal…essentially throwing it around the horn. If that didn’t
work we usually went into the weave…
usually initiated with a DHO..(IMO this got got overplayed a lot…without us reading it
& simply going backdoor as much as we should have to keep the D honest.)
Then we’d usually look again for a post feed…maybe High-Low…depending on the
line-up…then if that didn’t work we’d usually roll into a high middle. or side pick
and roll toward the end of the possession.

Goes without saying, but you’d also get the same stuff stuff in the opposite order…Throw in some occasional stagger screen actions on the perimeter for Plum or Trent…and yeah that was pretty much our bread and butter.

I like the idea of having Kofi set back screens for cutters about 17-20 ft out and rolling him/having him dive back towards
the hoop. It does two things: it opens things up and gives a scoring option.
I don’t know why everything has to be
a ball screen….other than it’s because
that stuff filters down from the pros and that’s what recruits wanna hear that the coach is gonna put them in ball screen
actions.

I don’t abdicate movement for movement’s sake…but it was too much stand and space on the perimeter. IMO I would have liked to seen some more filling the vacuum
principle on the perimeter…could be just a shallow cut and replace…outside the predictability of the weave…
Even when someone would penetrate
our other perimeter guys weren’t very adept
at stepping into the gaps and spotting up.
I felt like that should have been a fairly easy
fix.

Many excellent points. I always wondered why Kofi wasn't posting up more on 1 of the blocks and when doubled, looking for the open shooter on the weak side whose man was coming over to double/swarm Kofi. Although he did improve his passing out of the post from year 2, he still wasn't very proficient at it. He often took too long to get into his decisive move to shoot the ball and appeared to be instructed to shoot even if triple-teamed. If he did come back next year, I'd love to see him sometimes setting ball screens at the elbow and then rolling to the rim and setting baseline screens for a shooter flashing from the weak side so that Belo of whoever has the ball can have the option of passing to the player freed of his defender from Kofi's screen or Kofi then free to receive the post pass on the block so the rest of the lane is not so congested. And that action can be run from either block since Kofi admirably developed a nice little left jump hook shot. Too many of the post passes to Kofi were either so telegraphed that 3 guys were surrounding him just as he was receiving the ball or he was receiving the ball too far under the basket which limited his ability to just rise up and get the ball up at the rim.

Ghost77 · Mar 22, 2022

Interesting to consider this past season in a universe where we have Plummer and AM. Think you can make an argument that it all came down to guard play and we just didn’t have enough of it (for various reasons). Also painful because I know AM would’ve had a great season for us and possibly taken us to new heights :/

goillini316 · Mar 22, 2022

KnoxIllini2 said:
I’ve read minimal posts in this thread and I am certain most has been said so I apologize for any redundancy. I was down for our guys. It was also hard to stomach anything Illini basketball, but the show must go on.

The love and appreciation that I have for our seniors, and all the guys that have worn the orange and blue for our Fighting Illini, but Trent and Da’Monte have been here since the beginning of the Underwood era. They ARE the foundation. Ayo and Kofi are beautiful center pieces and will be names associated with Illinois for the rest of eternity. Who knows, maybe Kofi does come back for one more year?

Trent and Da’Monte should be remembered just as fondly. They represent what it is to be ultimate teammates and be team first players.

Trent went from ball dominate lead guard to a defender that would smother the opposing teams lead guard. It is ludicrous that Trent’s defense was not even considered for DPOY recognition. He has the respect of his teammates and competitors around the conference. He was the heart and soul of Illinois because he played with his heart and soul every.damn.day.

As most know, (and if you don’t now you will!) I am a heavily biased Peoria Illini fellow. DMFW is the enforcer of enforcers. He will get into your face and then promptly put the ball in your groin while saving it from going out of bounds (he might have smiled a few times at others pain). Not to mention DMFW would guard players way taller than him and hold his own, or more often than not, win the matchup. What other 6’4” forwards in America played all 5 positions this season? Was it awesome all the time? Lord no. Did it get the job done? Sometimes? Was it ugly and beautiful all at the same time? Kinda?

Trent and Da’Monte leave as having the most games and starts in Illinois history. They have also won B1G Regular Season and Tournament Championships in back to back seasons. That’s pretty flocking awesome.

Next season will be weird without Trent and Da’Monte, but their passion, intensity and presence will be ingrained into every team BU coaches for Illinois. They were here for the inception in 2017, where they now leave as established founders and legacies of the Every Day Guys Culture.

Perfectly written Knox. What's most impressive to me is even though physically undersized for what appears to be Underwoods preferred recruits, they committed to staying through the coaching change and played with more heart than any other Illini in my personal memory.

alaskaillini · Mar 22, 2022

Birdus said:
Man this is rude dude! What did I say that needs to be deleted? The Big is NOT the best conference as has already been proven in the tourney. I would argue that the ACC and Big 12 have proven their wear this year. It all comes down to advancing. Now if Purdue and Michigan were to advance to the final four, that might change things but... Also, if you read through the rest of the thread, many people agree with me. Maybe you read the post without thinking to much into it. Izzo and Underwood are good friends. Izzo has a championship and many final four runs. His teams play loose in the tournament. And that OTHER team they lost to, DUKE whom they almost beat is very very good. My only point was, there is something to be learned there. I bleed orange and blue like you do and I love Underwood. I love our direction and our future! Go ILLINI!

Show me another conference that is so deep that its 8th place team made it to the Sweet 16.

Spirit of the Prairie · Mar 22, 2022

Retro62 said:
A lot said about AC…good and bad. I didn’t like the shots he took against UH, but I was more frustrated by the shots others wouldn’t take. Also, if we run more next year, he is the guy you want leading that offense.

You have a point, but I think it should also be considered that "the shots others wouldn't take" were often because they didn't have the ball because AC wouldn't pass the ball! He has greatness in him and he can be great, but he really has to learn - be coached? - to curb (elo) his solo-performance tendencies and honor the fact that basketball is a team sport and he is just one part of a team. I hope he stays with Illinois and I hope he can be coached to his own greatness, but it's hard to even guess what his own intentions are. My hope is that we don't face him - or Podz or VerDonk or Payne, et al. - playing amazing basketball, on an opposing team. I hope opposing teams face us in the future with those guys and our other team members and the opponents quake in worry and defeat!

Spirit of the Prairie · Mar 22, 2022

KnoxIllini2 said:
I’ve read minimal posts in this thread and I am certain most has been said so I apologize for any redundancy. I was down for our guys. It was also hard to stomach anything Illini basketball, but the show must go on.

The love and appreciation that I have for our seniors, and all the guys that have worn the orange and blue for our Fighting Illini, but Trent and Da’Monte have been here since the beginning of the Underwood era. They ARE the foundation. Ayo and Kofi are beautiful center pieces and will be names associated with Illinois for the rest of eternity. Who knows, maybe Kofi does come back for one more year?

Trent and Da’Monte should be remembered just as fondly. They represent what it is to be ultimate teammates and be team first players.

Trent went from ball dominate lead guard to a defender that would smother the opposing teams lead guard. It is ludicrous that Trent’s defense was not even considered for DPOY recognition. He has the respect of his teammates and competitors around the conference. He was the heart and soul of Illinois because he played with his heart and soul every.damn.day.

As most know, (and if you don’t now you will!) I am a heavily biased Peoria Illini fellow. DMFW is the enforcer of enforcers. He will get into your face and then promptly put the ball in your groin while saving it from going out of bounds (he might have smiled a few times at others pain). Not to mention DMFW would guard players way taller than him and hold his own, or more often than not, win the matchup. What other 6’4” forwards in America played all 5 positions this season? Was it awesome all the time? Lord no. Did it get the job done? Sometimes? Was it ugly and beautiful all at the same time? Kinda?

Trent and Da’Monte leave as having the most games and starts in Illinois history. They have also won B1G Regular Season and Tournament Championships in back to back seasons. That’s pretty flocking awesome.

Next season will be weird without Trent and Da’Monte, but their passion, intensity and presence will be ingrained into every team BU coaches for Illinois. They were here for the inception in 2017, where they now leave as established founders and legacies of the Every Day Guys Culture.

It is very good to read praise and appreciation for Da'Monte here. Off the court in interviews he seems kind of shy and I have hoped he never reads some of the stuff that a few people wrote here, stuff that was never true in the first place, but that could affect a person's confidence on the court. He was always a warrior on the court and even more worthy of praise because he never got the spotlight. There's always one or two who get singled out, year after year, and they become "The One" and you can lose count of the number of times their names are said or the camera focuses on them; Ayo, Kofi, Curbelo are among those. It's not that those "stars" are undeserving of praise and attention, but when they become the single focus, others lose out, and that is unfair. I think that happened with Da'Monte and until the end of career was approaching, it happened with Trent. I know I keep harping on it, but it is a team sport and that really should be emphasized all the time, by coaches even if the media insist on trying to create one shining star. Repudiate that nonsense and focus on all of the guys.
Anyway, applause for your comments about Da'Monte and Trent. They stayed, they worked hard and they played hard and they ARE Illini, not just stepping stones to something else.

GBIllini · Mar 22, 2022

Spirit of the Prairie said:
You have a point, but I think it should also be considered that "the shots others wouldn't take" were often because they didn't have the ball because AC wouldn't pass the ball! He has greatness in him and he can be great, but he really has to learn - be coached? - to curb (elo) his solo-performance tendencies and honor the fact that basketball is a team sport and he is just one part of a team. I hope he stays with Illinois and I hope he can be coached to his own greatness, but it's hard to even guess what his own intentions are. My hope is that we don't face him - or Podz or VerDonk or Payne, et al. - playing amazing basketball, on an opposing team. I hope opposing teams face us in the future with those guys and our other team members and the opponents quake in worry and defeat!

While Curbelo wasn't hitting his shots like we would like. I have no problem with the wide open threes he took. How many of those bounced around in the cylinder before coming out. The last 1/4 of the year most of the time when he wasn't on the floor the offense went stagnant. We were weaving around nobody penetrating, throwing it in to Kofi to get double and triple teamed. Everybody was pretty much playing defense on us the same way and we weren't stepping up and hitting our threes. There were multiple reasons why things never did completely gel with the team. Just stop already with the blame game.

Hopingfor500 · Mar 22, 2022

jrichisamazing said:
I've said this already....but I will probably keep saying it because I wouldn't mind seeing it happen. I wonder if BU wants to go back to his spread offense if Kofi leaves. Hawkins, RJ, and Dainja could really excel at the pinch post IMO. You could even throw Goode their at times. And Rogers could be a beast their too, although I'm not sure how ready he will be as a freshman.

I think he unequivocally wants to go back to the spread offense and back to his attacking within 10 seconds approach. Can't really do that with Kofi.

I also think that he wants to go back to that pressuring, trapping defense that he had his first couple of years here. Again, hard to do that with Kofi.

He had shown the willingness to adapt to the roster he has. The issue is that this turned into a half court offense, with very little movement going to the basket and on defense, we never created "easy" transition baskets. Can anyone remember a game where our pressure was creating havoc, leading up fast breaks and layups?

When you're not hitting the three and you don't have guards who can attack the basket, you have to find other ways to score.

When you don't get the easy baskets and you're limited with what you can do offensively (feed Kofi or shoot the three).....every possession, every game is a grind. That's really what occured the last month and a half. Big, athletic guards was the kiss of death for us.

I suspect BU goes back to his roots if/when Kofi leaves. You can tell by the longer, taller, athletic pieces that he's recruiting.

TheFameProtector · Mar 23, 2022

Ghost77 said:
Interesting to consider this past season in a universe where we have Plummer and AM. Think you can make an argument that it all came down to guard play and we just didn’t have enough of it (for various reasons). Also painful because I know AM would’ve had a great season for us and possibly taken us to new heights :/

I've often wondered if he saw how Belo's season unfolded and considered what might have been had he stayed/wished he hadn't left. He would've ended up being in the position he wanted -- as a primary ball handler (along with Trent) -- just by way of wresting those duties from Belo as he recovered from injury. His game has some holes but we really missed his defensive intensity on the perimeter. Then again, perhaps in that alternate reality he still tears his ACL and he's yet another player watching from the sidelines.

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