Illini Basketball

Status
Not open for further replies.
#201      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
sulli said:
I'd like to have seen kofi learn to move around without getting too far from the basket. I hate the post up in the middle of the lane with the entry from the top of the key. Hard pass, hard catch, clogged lane. If he went block to block more and sometimes set a back-pick for a cutter across the lane only to drift down to the short corner on the weak-side, they'd have a more open lane for driving, he'd be less beat up, and he'd get easy alley-oops and dump-offs for 4 footers and dunks. That only works though if everyone is moving. It has to be an actual motion offense.

They just didn't ever even try to run a motion offense with him in it. They settled for him just posting up from the second the ball crossed half court and occasionally doing pick and roll.
Click to expand...
I’m clearly not on the staff…so what I think doesn’t amount to hill of beans. BUT I gotta say I agree with a lot of what you’re saying
here…I’ve thought along similar lines

The 4 around 1 thing, with Kofi was a given with his size and abilities. No doubt, having an All-American post player is a good problem to have. Lol. But it created some problems too…(it could get stagnant, predictable, clogged)

Depending on the line-up, but more often than not…what we often got was:
guards at the slots…wings at free-throw line extended…Kofi standing and posting

Yes, indeed we’d try for a quick post or a post after a ball reversal…essentially throwing it around the horn. If that didn’t
work we usually went into the weave…
usually initiated with a DHO..(IMO this got got overplayed a lot…without us reading it
& simply going backdoor as much as we should have to keep the D honest.)
Then we’d usually look again for a post feed…maybe High-Low…depending on the
line-up…then if that didn’t work we’d usually roll into a high middle. or side pick
and roll toward the end of the possession.

Goes without saying, but you’d also get the same stuff stuff in the opposite order…Throw in some occasional stagger screen actions on the perimeter for Plum or Trent…and yeah that was pretty much our bread and butter.

I like the idea of having Kofi set back screens for cutters about 17-20 ft out and rolling him/having him dive back towards
the hoop. It does two things: it opens things up and gives a scoring option.
I don’t know why everything has to be
a ball screen….other than it’s because
that stuff filters down from the pros and that’s what recruits wanna hear that the coach is gonna put them in ball screen
actions.

I don’t abdicate movement for movement’s sake…but it was too much stand and space on the perimeter. IMO I would have liked to seen some more filling the vacuum
principle on the perimeter…could be just a shallow cut and replace…outside the predictability of the weave…
Even when someone would penetrate
our other perimeter guys weren’t very adept
at stepping into the gaps and spotting up.
I felt like that should have been a fairly easy
fix.
 
Last edited:
#202      

Spirit of the Prairie

S
Spirit of the Prairie
WyattEarp said:
I’m clearly not on the staff…so what I think doesn’t amount to hill of beans. BUT I gotta say agree with a lot of what you’re saying
here…I’ve thought along similar lines

The 4 around 1 thing, with Kofi was a given with his size and abilities. No doubt, having an All-American post player is a good problem to have. Lol. But it created some problems too…(it could get stagnant, predictable, clogged)

Depending on the line-up, but more often than not…what we often got was:
guards at the slots…wings at free-throw line extended…Kofi standing and posting

Yes, indeed we’d try for a quick post or a post after a ball reversal…essentially throwing it around the horn. If that didn’t
work we usually went into the weave…
usually initiated with a DHO..(IMO this got got overplayed a lot…without us reading it
& simply going backdoor as much as we should have to keep the D honest.)
Then we’d usually look again for a post feed…maybe High-Low…depending on the
line-up…then if that didn’t work we’d usually roll into a high middle. or side pick
and roll toward the end of the possession.

Goes without saying, but you’d also get the same stuff stuff in the opposite order…Throw in some occasional stagger screen actions on the perimeter for Plum or Trent…and yeah that was pretty much our bread and butter.

I like the idea of having Kofi set back screens for cutters about 17-20 ft out and rolling him/having him dive back towards
the hoop. It does two things: it opens things up and gives a scoring option.
I don’t know why everything has to be
a ball screen….other than it’s because
that stuff filters down from the pros and that’s what recruits wanna hear that the coach is gonna put them in ball screen
actions.

I don’t abdicate movement for movement’s sake…but it was too much stand and space on the perimeter. IMO I would have liked to see some more filling the vacuum
principle on the perimeter…could be just a shallow cut and replace…outside the predictability of the weave…
Even when someone would penetrate
our other perimeter guys weren’t very adept
at stepping into the gaps and spotting up.
I felt like that should have been a fairly easy
fix.
Click to expand...
Thoughts, let’s call ‘em Armchair Advice, for next year:

  • Develop a great program for training players to make free throw shots 99% of the time! Making our FT shots would have helped us a lot. Get Illinois Engineering, Psychology, Sports sciences, whatever, to design a program that trains for that. Lots of ideas about it, but let the suggestion suffice for now.
  • Coach the team to MOVE when Kofi has the ball and is looking for somebody, looking for help, instead of getting him the ball and then standing in place and looking at him as if they are planted in place while he’s flailing about; in other words, MOVE to an open sightline.
  • If hanging on the rim after a dunk is “unsportsmanlike” or “showboating” then what are those gestures that all of the players make now, the “hulk” arm muscle stuff, the chest-beating, and the exhorting of the crowd with the waving arms; make it all a technical foul and stop the stupid stuff.
 
#203      

Hopingfor500

H
Hopingfor500
jjv0004 said:
Torch me but I think Underwood will prove he can recruit but is not that great of a coach. He was severely outcoached last year against Loyola, barely squeaked by Chatanooga and got run by Houston. He had a stud last year in Ayo, who is playing very well in the NBA this year and an all-American in Kofi this year and could not get to the sweet sixteen. You can make excuses all day long about luck, etc. but at some point the coach has to look in the mirror.
Click to expand...
No reason to be torched, but it's hard to blame the coach when guys are missing open looks or are begging guys(Curbelo and Hawkins) to shoot by playing 5 feet off. The coaches job is to put his guys in position to succeed. It's on the players to execute and they simply couldn't make a shot for the two games out there.
 
#206      

Rap47

R
Rap47
Hopingfor500 said:
No reason to be torched, but it's hard to blame the coach when guys are missing open looks or are begging guys(Curbelo and Hawkins) to shoot by playing 5 feet off. The coaches job is to put his guys in position to succeed. It's on the players to execute and they simply couldn't make a shot for the two games out there.
Click to expand...
Hawkins should practice all summer on inside 15 feet jumpers.
 
#207      

alaskaillini

A
alaskaillini
AnnaMay said:
Perhaps we should blame Brad for playing him at the time of all of these issues that effected his game so much to cause him to perform so poorly on offense. I have no idea if you actually played competitive basketball or not, but I did. I understand the concussion stuff and he gets a full pass during the time he was playing with that going on, but after he was cleared there are no excuses. Sitting out for these things doesnt cause players to make stupid decisions on the court or miss layups. Oddly, none of these things seemed to hurt his game on the opposite end of the court. In fact, if we use your excuses, Covid, the flu, and a bad concussion, gave him the power to rebound better and defend better.
Click to expand...
Making a shot while moving is far more demanding from a fine motor skill standpoint than defending or rebounding or even shooting free throws. Apples and oranges.
 
#209      

WhiteHorseWings

WhiteHorseWings
WhiteHorseWings
Cook said:
How much longer we talking? 🧐📏o_O
Click to expand...
34AB6D8A-C852-4281-B26A-BB881A55278E.gif
 
#210      

Captain 14

C
The Last Best Place
Captain 14
Rap47 said:
Hawkins should practice all summer on inside 15 feet jumpers.
Click to expand...
Any stats on how many midrange jumpers we made this season versus last? I mean outside the paint and inside 3 point. Sorry my definition only but we seemed fairly impotent from my armchair view.
 
#211      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
mattcoldagelli
derrick6 said:
Don’t know if you deliberately replied to my statement about “PAC12 being considered down but got a little reprieve last year.”

I don’t recall hearing Big 10 is overrated until the last few years. Coincidentally, since MSU was in the finals in 2019 so that narrative would seem silly. Now it has shifted to we haven’t won since…which does have its merits.

Not sure what your point is?
Click to expand...

My point was it's odd that there are all these competing grand theories of the case as to why the B1G hasn't won a title since 2000 (culture? style of play? talent? 20 game schedule? coaching?), whereas the PAC-12 drought is three years longer and everyone basically shrugs and says "yeah I guess the teams weren't good enough."

And true, PAC-12 had a decent showing last year, but "some teams play above seed, one gets to the Final Four" is fairly pedestrian as far as that goes.
 
#212      

FromTheLogo

F
FromTheLogo
Boomauer said:
Curbelo's pregame scuffle with the officials was apparently concerning the mismatched length of his leggings....and no I'm not joking. One legging was longer than the other....and he was told that was not permissible. Info per Loren Tate.
Click to expand...
Did anyone see the dude on TCU who had one purple leg and one white one??? What a joke if that is the reason.

(Sorry for the blurry screenshot but I think you can see it clear enough.)
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20220321-222516.png
    Screenshot_20220321-222516.png
    239.5 KB · Views: 229
#213      

FrankNitty30

F
FrankNitty30
Spirit of the Prairie said:
He barely ever got in so to say he was "meh" is unfair. Even if he was "meh," how do you reconcile that with other players who got in and were "meh" but still played? I am concerned that there doesn't seem to be a lot of concern about his lack of playing opportunity because I wonder if it's designed to tempt him to play for, oh say, Wisconsin, or another program that would not say his playing was "meh."
There are some points of view that puzzle me:
the negativity for DaMonte Williams who actually was a big asset for Illinois;
the virtual ignoring of VerDonk even when he was out with a concussion when he was an asset to the team and a big asset to "spell" Kofi;
and now, the lack of concern about Podz' value to the team when he hardly got any opportunity to prove it.
This isn't to you, FrankNitty30, but just in general.
Click to expand...
But at the end of the day, whatever he was showing the coaches in practice was not enough for him to get in the game. When he did play he was rather…. Meh. I want him to stay. I want him to grow and become a huge player on a championship team. But if a freshman transfers out because of a lack of playing team kn a team this deep…. So be it.
 
#214      

TChief

T
TChief
AnnaMay said:
Perhaps we should blame Brad for playing him at the time of all of these issues that effected his game so much to cause him to perform so poorly on offense. I have no idea if you actually played competitive basketball or not, but I did. I understand the concussion stuff and he gets a full pass during the time he was playing with that going on, but after he was cleared there are no excuses. Sitting out for these things doesnt cause players to make stupid decisions on the court or miss layups. Oddly, none of these things seemed to hurt his game on the opposite end of the court. In fact, if we use your excuses, Covid, the flu, and a bad concussion, gave him the power to rebound better and defend better.
Click to expand...
I did not play college basketball, and I have no idea what you do professionally, but I don’t think you “understand the concussion stuff.” TBIs are no laughing matter and just because he was cleared to play and passed whatever protocols the team has in place, does not mean he is without a doubt fully healed/recovered.

TBIs can cause changes in mood, decision-making, risk taking, reaction times, etc., and they can linger for a long time. It is also not difficult in a contact sport to suffer a setback or further aggravate a TBI. I don’t think it is unreasonable to think that Curbelo’s TBI may have increased the aforementioned or might even still be the cause of some of his miscues on the court. I think a lot of his behavior is more likely than not due to his head injury.

You might consider cutting him some slack. Many people with TBIs have a hard time simply remembering appointments or even very basic things. I can only imagine trying to run an offense as a high level DI athlete while still suffering from possible lingering side effects of a TBI.

March just so happens to be Brain Injury Awareness month. Although it is not my specialty (there are much, much better experts in this area of clinical practice and research than me), as a VA doctor I serve many Veterans with TBI and the side effects can be anywhere from mild to very devastating. I don’t think we are close to fully knowing or fully understanding the effects of such an injury, and we all have much to learn.

I think most here would agree that we wish Curbelo a full recovery so it no longer affects his basketball abilities, but more so his future health. I applaud all of our student athletes on the team who fought through injuries and illness to give as much as they could to the team. They all cared less about their own bodies and health so we could enjoy a couple hours a day to watch a game and see our team win.

Think about all the other athletes (college or pro) who may have prioritized their own physical health above their team (sat out for draft stock purposes, trade purposes, general money purposes, etc.). I’m not saying it is right or wrong for those other athletes to have done that, but nobody on this current roster (and don’t forget Ayo the two years prior) decided to shut it down and call it a day, a year, or college career to protect his own interests. They continued to play for the team, the coaching staff, the university, and the fans. In this age, that is amazing. That speaks to the culture of this program. It is in good hands.
 
#216      

derrick6

D
Illini Dawg
Seattle
derrick6
mattcoldagelli said:
My point was it's odd that there are all these competing grand theories of the case as to why the B1G hasn't won a title since 2000 (culture? style of play? talent? 20 game schedule? coaching?), whereas the PAC-12 drought is three years longer and everyone basically shrugs and says "yeah I guess the teams weren't good enough."

And true, PAC-12 had a decent showing last year, but "some teams play above seed, one gets to the Final Four" is fairly pedestrian as far as that goes.
Click to expand...
The theories are prevalent out here on the West coast. I guess you wouldn’t see it as much on this forum so assume it doesn’t get as much attention. I’m saying it does and is trying to be addressed, just like it is in the B1G.

Both conferences being academically focused, I see a lot of similarities. PAC12 not having a championship doesn’t invalidate any single theory for the B1G, it just adds credibility to it.
 
#217      

JFGsCoffeeMug

JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
JFGsCoffeeMug
Spirit of the Prairie said:
Thoughts, let’s call ‘em Armchair Advice, for next year:

  • Develop a great program for training players to make free throw shots 99% of the time! Making our FT shots would have helped us a lot. Get Illinois Engineering, Psychology, Sports sciences, whatever, to design a program that trains for that. Lots of ideas about it, but let the suggestion suffice for now.
  • Coach the team to MOVE when Kofi has the ball and is looking for somebody, looking for help, instead of getting him the ball and then standing in place and looking at him as if they are planted in place while he’s flailing about; in other words, MOVE to an open sightline.
  • If hanging on the rim after a dunk is “unsportsmanlike” or “showboating” then what are those gestures that all of the players make now, the “hulk” arm muscle stuff, the chest-beating, and the exhorting of the crowd with the waving arms; make it all a technical foul and stop the stupid stuff.
Click to expand...
 
#218      

Spirit of the Prairie

S
Spirit of the Prairie
Boomauer said:
Count me in as someone who really wants Curbelo back next year. He had awful luck this year with concussion and sickness issues that had a massive effect on his game. He's taken a lot of flack on social media from much of our fanbase for his uneven play this year and still has kept an awesome attitude.

We've complained for years about our lack of point guard play...then we finally get one of the best guys around- a terrific ball handler and passer, who while erratic
at times, is simply phenomenal when at his best. He's also a great kid with a giant personality. Now a segment of fans don't care if he stays or transfers. I'll be extremely disappointed if he's not around to lead this talented group of players/recruits in the next few years. Hopefully the rest of us can show him a lot of love in the coming days. Go Illini!
Click to expand...
Like you, I hope he stays, but I also hope he can adapt to the concept of basketball being a team sport and that he is part of a team. He is really delightful and fun and amazing when he's playing with the team, but when he forgets and thinks it's all his show to do everything, it doesn't always go well for the team. He may be trying to be a hero or a star but he can do that without playing like a solo figure out there dazzling and whirling around and losing the ball or missing the shot or throwing to the opposing team. Illinois fans can and will love him, and he can help win games. I hope he stays. I hope Podz stays and I hope VerDonk stays and Payne and Melendez and Goode - I hope I'm not missing anybody. That's a great group and next year will be fun and satisfying, I'm pretty sure!
 
#219      

jmwillini

J
Tolono, IL
jmwillini
Working 3rd shift, I dvr'ed the game. Deleted it after seeing the score. Finally saw the technical foul. The ref who called that should never call a game again, EVER. Probably would have lost anyway, but damn, that was one of the worst calls ever, ever, ever...
 
#220      

Spirit of the Prairie

S
Spirit of the Prairie
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
Click to expand...
WOW!!! What a fascinating find! Thank you for posting this. I had no idea this existed and I admit I'm happy to say that these experts and scientists have done what I was only thinking about! Do you know if the Illinois program uses these ideas and materials? Did you notice that the animated lines of the ball moving to the net in the video were orange and blue??!! My spouse thinks that it also a practice of "muscle memory," that if you start to make shots, even occasionally, that you can develop "muscle memory" and that could translate to higher percentage rate of made FTs. Anyway, I love the video and am very glad you shared this here. Please, somebody, tell the Illinois basketball coaches and team members about it if they don't already know it. Let's become "Illinois: The Best Free-Throw Team in the Country! ELITE!!"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.