Illini Basketball

Deep · Mar 25, 2023

I've just been reading without posting any thoughts so here goes.....

BU brought us back to relevance from the dumpster fire we were. I genuinely like BU and appreciate what he has done.

However something seems to be missing as we keep underachieving in tournament.

I have read a lot about how BU coached teams are geared to peek as the season goes on.......thats generally not been the case except for the covid shutdown year.
The last 2 years have not been peeking at the end of the season.

This situation kinds of remind me of a situation that you can have a coach take you from step A to B but you may need someone else to get to step C(championship) level.

The Doug Collins to Phil Jackson like transition.

I say all this as an opinion and thought process.

Having said that.....
I would be happy to see BU remain at Illinois.

State of Chicago · Mar 25, 2023

Rudd21 said:
John Groce went 18-14 (8-10) in the Big 10 the year he was fired. It’s revisionist history to claim that’s a “dumpster fire”. It was a mediocre Big 10 team, that Underwood somehow made worse before Kofi arrived.

Before Kofi arrived, Underwood in conference went:

4–14
7-13

After Kofi leaves, Underwood goes:
20–13 (11-9). A record better than what got Groce fired for, but not that much better.

Let’s not forget that Groce’s non-conference schedule looked nothing like Brad’s. Brad believes we are a top program and schedules accordingly. Groce played a weak non-conference schedule. His goal was to add to the win column before getting rocked in conference play.

skyIdub · Mar 25, 2023

Ok how ‘bout this. It was just a dumpster and Groce was struggling to light the match.

ChiefGritty · Mar 25, 2023

State of Chicago said:
Brad believes we are a top program and schedules accordingly. Groce played a weak non-conference schedule. His goal was to add to the win column before getting rocked in conference play.

Both Groce and Underwood played schedules that were built to appeal to the standards and methods of the NCAA tournament committee at those particular times. As did Weber.

We have the good fortune that the committee now rewards teams for playing as many exciting games between big time teams as they can schedule, which is good for us and good for the sport as a whole.

Combo · Mar 25, 2023

Deep said:
I've just been reading without posting any thoughts so here goes.....

BU brought us back to relevance from the dumpster fire we were. I genuinely like BU and appreciate what he has done.

However something seems to be missing as we keep underachieving in tournament.

I have read a lot about how BU coached teams are geared to peek as the season goes on.......thats generally not been the case except for the covid shutdown year.
The last 2 years have not been peeking at the end of the season.

This situation kinds of remind me of a situation that you can have a coach take you from step A to B but you may need someone else to get to step C(championship) level.

The Doug Collins to Phil Jackson like transition.

I say all this as an opinion and thought process.

Having said that.....
I would be happy to see BU remain at Illinois.

Why are some so persistent in pushing this narrative? We’ve underachieved one year out of three we’ve been the tournament under BU.

Big Jack · Mar 25, 2023

Combo said:
Why are some so persistent in pushing this narrative? We’ve underachieved one year out of three we’ve been the tournament under BU.

I would tend to disagree with that statement as we IMHO lost at least one more game each year of the three.. We were ranked higher vs Loyola, Houston and should have been able to beat Arkansas...

I don't think any of us will ever know the ins and outs of what goes on inside the locker room or practice facilities. I have no issues with a coach getting in a players face and yelling to make a point. However I do not accept the hysterical rants I saw this year. It was not a pretty picture with all of the Mfers you could read on his lips let alone hear in the good seats. It did not look good for the university in my opinion. But that is just me. That language is meet for use behind closed doors.

I would be happy with BU staying on as our coach but at least JW knows the situation and has it under control. Just no more contract extensions until he reaches the S16 or E8.

the juiceman cometh · Mar 25, 2023

Big Jack said:
I would tend to disagree with that statement as we IMHO lost at least one more game each year of the three.. We were ranked higher vs Loyola, Houston and should have been able to beat Arkansas...

Loyola was an underachivement, no argument there.

Houston was a 4 vs 5 matchup. That's practically 50/50. And as it turned out, Houston was probably underseeded. After beating us they knocked off #1 seed Arizona. I wouldn't call that underachieving.

Arkansas was seeded higher than us, just barely. 8 vs 9, basically 50/50 again. That's not underachieving.

He's underachieved in the tournament once, shot par twice, and has not overachieved yet. That's not an outstanding tournament resume, but it's not accurate to say BU is consistently underachieving in the tourney.

Combo · Mar 25, 2023

the juiceman cometh said:
Loyola was an underachivement, no argument there.

Houston was a 4 vs 5 matchup. That's practically 50/50. And as it turned out, Houston was probably underseeded. After beating us they knocked off #1 seed Arizona. I wouldn't call that underachieving.

Arkansas was seeded higher than us, just barely. 8 vs 9, basically 50/50 again. That's not underachieving.

He's underachieved in the tournament once, shot par twice, and has not overachieved yet. That's not an outstanding tournament resume, but it's not accurate to say BU is consistently underachieving in the tourney.

Yup. I’ll add that against Houston, we were incredibly beat up. Our seeding was based on our body of work during the season. But by season’s end, with the injuries, we were no where near that good.

ChiefGritty · Mar 25, 2023

the juiceman cometh said:
Loyola was an underachivement, no argument there.

Houston was a 4 vs 5 matchup. That's practically 50/50. And as it turned out, Houston was probably underseeded. After beating us they knocked off #1 seed Arizona. I wouldn't call that underachieving.

Arkansas was seeded higher than us, just barely. 8 vs 9, basically 50/50 again. That's not underachieving.

He's underachieved in the tournament once, shot par twice, and has not overachieved yet. That's not an outstanding tournament resume, but it's not accurate to say BU is consistently underachieving in the tourney.

His couple of low seed upsets at Stephen F Austin are relevant to this conversation too, IMO.

I know a "can't do it in the tourney" guy when I see one. That's not BU. And even guys like that can have success because it's all such a crapshoot in March (see Barnes, Rick; Henson, Lou)

If BU keeps getting us players we will be in the second weekend soon enough.

TonyRu85 · Mar 25, 2023

the juiceman cometh said:
Loyola was an underachivement, no argument there.

Houston was a 4 vs 5 matchup. That's practically 50/50. And as it turned out, Houston was probably underseeded. After beating us they knocked off #1 seed Arizona. I wouldn't call that underachieving.

Arkansas was seeded higher than us, just barely. 8 vs 9, basically 50/50 again. That's not underachieving.

He's underachieved in the tournament once, shot par twice, and has not overachieved yet. That's not an outstanding tournament resume, but it's not accurate to say BU is consistently underachieving in the tourney.

Agree wholeheartedly.. That Loyola team that was just better than us that day. It's March.. it happens. The only thing we can do is continue giving ourselves opportunities and the breaks will fall eventually for us. No one in their right mind would tell you that K-State, Creighton, FAU, or SDSU are a top 2 team in the country, yet one of them will play in a national championship game. Tournament success is about consistently getting in the field and getting insanely lucky over a 2-week stretch if you are not a top ranked team every year. Yes, you can just be the best team and win the games you are supposed to win.. but how often does that ever even happen in the tournament?

IlliniBrave75 · Mar 25, 2023

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639438872773005313

Deep · Mar 25, 2023

So

the juiceman cometh said:
Loyola was an underachivement, no argument there.

Houston was a 4 vs 5 matchup. That's practically 50/50. And as it turned out, Houston was probably underseeded. After beating us they knocked off #1 seed Arizona. I wouldn't call that underachieving.

Arkansas was seeded higher than us, just barely. 8 vs 9, basically 50/50 again. That's not underachieving.

He's underachieved in the tournament once, shot par twice, and has not overachieved yet. That's not an outstanding tournament resume, but it's not accurate to say BU is consistently underachieving in the tourney.

So you are content with what we've done in the tournament. What we have done with a 1 seed, 4 seed, 9 seed is called underachieving

2 wins
No sweet 16's

2020 Final Four · Mar 25, 2023

Deep said:
So

So you are content with what we've done in the tournament. What we have done with a 1 seed, 4 seed, 9 seed is called underachieving

2 wins
No sweet 16's

After the season from Hell, I am excited to see how next season unfolds. Underwood is still a good coach, as coaches go. Watching the tourney I don't think there are many good game coaches out there.

Illiniindian · Mar 25, 2023

Second place is 1st loser said:
Flatlined? He had to replace 85% of every major statistical category. He lost all five starters and his sixth man. Of those was a first team All American and four seniors. He put a team together, on the fly, of freshmen and transfers. He figured out 20 wins and an NCAA bid.

Totally agree with you on this past season. I am concerned for the future.

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