Illini Coaching Staff

NEIlliniFan · Apr 6, 2017

I'm far from an expert on how recruiting goes but suspect the recruiter's skill set (as a recruiter) only goes so far with regards to success. At that point I suspect how far into the gray the Athletic Department & University are willing to go takes over.

UofIChE06 · Apr 6, 2017

SescIllini said:
Those two are good names, especially if Heirman can bring some of his burger boys with him.

I don't know why people are stressing UI should hire Guy A because he could bring Recruit X. I get it MP is at Mizzou because they hired his dad. How often do those situations actually work out long term? You hire someone based on the belief they can bring in multiple recruits over their tenure and coach players on the team. Walker was retained both because of his connections in the area and the work he has done with the team both during the previous regime and as the interim.

Between Coleman and Hierman I would take Heirman not because he may be able to persuade some LaLu recruits but because he both recruited and coached a premier team on the HS circuit to a national championship. He took a good LaLu program and pushed it to the next level by both recruiting players (both stars and supporting players) and then forming them into a team with an identity. LaLu did not win Dick's based on talent although they had plenty.

Obelix · Apr 6, 2017

RichardKeenesHair said:
Whatever you may think of Martin's coaching abilities, beating him for the few recruits that generally come out of St Louis is going to be a very tough task...no matter who is on the staff

Martin is a dynamic recruiter. He will not recruit St. Louis only, he will recruit Illinois, Chicago, and many other places. People who think otherwise live in la-la-land.

What we should do is assemble the best staff of dynamic recruiters to counter and win our fair share recruiting battles, not just against Martin. That is exactly what it seems we are doing.

The other popular approach on message boards that will not work IMO at UI, is to recruit lesser talent and miraculously and consistently develop them to the point that UI consistently competes for B1G titles with lesser talent, at least until you have done that for many years and you are able to recruit players based on reputation and brand.

I am glad we are taking the first approach. Coaching and developing still matters a lot, but we need a significant upgrade in talent. Antigua is a huge step forward, and people need to stop kidding themselves, the big attraction is his recruiting and ability to close the deal with recruits, not his X's and O's wizardry.

mattcoldagelli · Apr 6, 2017

Obelix said:
I am glad we are taking the first approach. Coaching and developing still matters a lot, but we need a significant upgrade in talent. Antigua is a huge step forward, and people need to stop kidding themselves, the big attraction is his recruiting and ability to close the deal with recruits, not his X's and O's wizardry.

Is anybody saying otherwise on Antigua? If so, I haven't seen it.

ChiefIllini · Apr 6, 2017

TheGMan said:
I'm not saying that Walker is the savior and greatest recruiter in the STL region, but based on all accounts, he is well liked and respected in the region by both players and coaches. If you officially announce him as an assistant, and then soon after fire him because a kid had a change of heart after a coaching change, then I can pretty much guarantee that those coaches will remember.

I wasn't and will not advocate his firing. At least for a few years. I was just pointing out the fact that his STL lies haven't paid off... yet. Sucks he's lost all the big fish from his recruiting region but if he's the guy who Whitman trusted to carry the team the last few games, it speaks much more about him than who he does and does not get to commit here.
So I guess that means I agree with you

UofIChE06 said:
Between Coleman and Hierman I would take Heirman

Agreed. heard too many iffy things about Coleman. Heirman should be given a chance. I can see him becoming a Keatts kind of guy in a few years.

combes · Apr 6, 2017

zpfled said:
Let Walker go, hire Coleman and Heirman.

Walker is a better coach than those two.

zpfled · Apr 6, 2017

Obelix said:
Martin is a dynamic recruiter. He will not recruit St. Louis only, he will recruit Illinois, Chicago, and many other places. People who think otherwise live in la-la-land.

I've heard that Martin went behind some people's backs in Chicago with Charlie Moore's recruitment, and therefore has a little ground to make up with Chicago AAU guys.

I hope this is true. If he can start behind the 8-ball a bit in Chicago, and BU starts off on the right foot right away, we'll be sitting pretty.

aluma · Apr 6, 2017

Sort of ironic that our best recruiter and our coach in charge of developing the bigs just got hired and that same day our biggest post player commit in years decommits. Irony

Obelix · Apr 6, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
Is anybody saying otherwise on Antigua? If so, I haven't seen it.

Not at all, not what my post meant. There have been quite a few posts supporting the position that Underwood and staff (and the next coach in general, before BU was hired) should focus less on recruiting and more on developing lesser talent to compete for B1G (plug in the Wisconsin reference for the millionth time). Even many more of those with respect to Mizzou hiring Cuonzo.

The hiring of Antigua clearly indicates that recruiting and upgrading talent IS a top priority. The big attraction for OA IS recruiting. And some of the names of potential candidates (e.g., Chin Coleman) also point towards the same direction/strategy, not the development of lesser talent approach.

UofI08 · Apr 6, 2017

ChiefIllini said:
Forgot about all the STL talent that has come here recruited by Walker.... Goodwin, Smith, Tilmon... Wait a minute....

Must've missed the part where Walker is required to land 6 guys each year. Don't forget we already have 3 commits that Walker played a big part in getting and keeping.

UncleBob · Apr 6, 2017

The more we win on the court, the better Walker's recruiting will be.

Peoria Illini · Apr 6, 2017

Walker is a good coach and should be kept on for sure. I'm not sure how much input he had in game since most of the time I saw Groce listening to Ford in his ear for the majority of the game.

Ervin Small has been on multiple facebook threads really pushing Marcus Liberty as a possible assistant coach. Anyone know what Marcus has been doing these days? Sounds like Ervin is just hyping for his buddy.

Obelix · Apr 6, 2017

Something people need to consider is the huge PR blow to BU and Illinois IF Underwood had not retained Walker, Tilmon had requested his NLI release (which he did anyway), and Walked had ended up at Mizzou with Cuonzo.

I think Walked adds value and I really like Underwood's staff so far (Antigua, Walker), despite losing Tilmon.

Another thing to consider is that you can't hire all 3 assistant being top national assistants with reputation, etc. The budget will not be enough. Just look at Cuonzo's staff at Mizzou.

UofI08 · Apr 6, 2017

Obelix said:
Something people need to consider is the huge PR blow to BU and Illinois IF Underwood had not retained Walker, Tilmon had requested his NLI release (which he did anyway), and Walked had ended up at Mizzou with Cuonzo.

I think Walked adds value and I really Underwood's staff so far (Antigua, Walker), despite losing Tilmon.

Another thing to consider is that you can't hire all 3 assistant being top national assistants with reputation, etc. The budget will not be enough. Just look at Cuonzo's staff at Mizzou.

Agree with all of this 100%. Walker and Antigua is a GREAT staff already. Both are solid to great recruiters and both seem to actually have some coaching chops as well.

Obelix · Apr 6, 2017

zpfled said:
I've heard that Martin went behind some people's backs in Chicago with Charlie Moore's recruitment, and therefore has a little ground to make up with Chicago AAU guys.

I hope this is true. If he can start behind the 8-ball a bit in Chicago, and BU starts off on the right foot right away, we'll be sitting pretty.

It may be, and I have always claimed that in order to be successful at UI a coach needs not only to be able to deal with the powerful HS and AAU programs, but embrace the current recruiting landscape/dynamics.

If Cuonzo hires Michael Porter Sr., you go out and hire Orlando Antigua. That is how the game is played.

Rocket coach · Apr 6, 2017

It may have been reported

but I am hearing the Lalu coach is going to Depaul. If this is old news I apologize.

mattcoldagelli · Apr 6, 2017

Obelix said:
If Cuonzo hires Michael Porter Sr., you go out and hire Orlando Antigua. That is how the game is played.

sean-connery-here-endeth-he-pulls-a-knife-you-pull-a-gun-he-sends-one-of-yours-to-the-hospital-you-s.jpg

Obelix · Apr 6, 2017

^^^ Exactly ^^^

ChiefIllini · Apr 6, 2017

UofI08 said:
Must've missed the part where Walker is required to land 6 guys each year. Don't forget we already have 3 commits that Walker played a big part in getting and keeping.

Theres a difference between a recruiter being able to get those borderline top 150 players and being able to snag special players (like the three i mentioned previously). You can't possibly see him as an ace. He just hasn't landed marquee names. Label that unlucky or what have you, but its still the truth.

I'm not saying he's got to get all three, or even two, and he still has the possibility to get at least one, but his chances are dwindling. I said earlier I really like Walker, but labeling him as a stud STL recruiter is absolutely wrong.

I think his value to this team can indeed be making in roads with a lot of highly talented recruits but much like Groce, sealing the deal doesn't seem to be his forte.

UofI08 · Apr 6, 2017

ChiefIllini said:
Theres a difference between a recruiter being able to get those borderline top 150 players and being able to snag special players (like the three i mentioned previously). You can't possibly see him as an ace. He just hasn't landed marquee names. Label that unlucky or what have you, but its still the truth.

I'm not saying he's got to get all three, or even two, and he still has the possibility to get at least one, but his chances are dwindling. I said earlier I really like Walker, but labeling him as a stud STL recruiter is absolutely wrong.

I think his value to this team can indeed be making in roads with a lot of highly talented recruits but much like Groce, sealing the deal doesn't seem to be his forte.

Agree. It's hard to really call anyone not at a blue blood an "ace recruiter." I mean he did get us a Tilmon verbal and signed NLI after all. That's pretty difficult to do with a mediocre program and head coach. Maybe my memory isn't great, but has Illinois really ever been a major player in STL? The fact that Walker is well liked and connected down there can only be a positive moving forward.

UofIChE06 · Apr 6, 2017

Obelix said:
Another thing to consider is that you can't hire all 3 assistant being top national assistants with reputation, etc. The budget will not be enough. Just look at Cuonzo's staff at Mizzou.

This is why I think Heirman would make a lot of sense, aside from being what I think is a future coaching star. This would be his break into the college ranks so he would not command the high salary others would. I think between him and the two other coaches we should all expect turnover in less than 3 years. And I think that is a good thing. It means things are going well.

UofI08 · Apr 6, 2017

UofIChE06 said:
This is why I think Heirman would make a lot of sense, aside from being what I think is a future coaching star. This would be his break into the college ranks so he would not command the high salary others would. I think between him and the two other coaches we should all expect turnover in less than 3 years. And I think that is a good thing. It means things are going well.

True, but you're worth what someone will pay you. The head coach at arguably the most talented and best high school basketball program in the country will be wanted by many programs. He can probably demand a pretty solid number and get it.

zpfled · Apr 6, 2017

UofI08 said:
Agree. It's hard to really call anyone not at a blue blood an "ace recruiter." I mean he did get us a Tilmon verbal and signed NLI after all. That's pretty difficult to do with a mediocre program and head coach. Maybe my memory isn't great, but has Illinois really ever been a major player in STL? The fact that Walker is well liked and connected down there can only be a positive moving forward.

I think Groce is an ace recruiter, as an assistant. As a HC, he was a good recruiter. At OSU, he was top notch.

BLloyd2311 · Apr 6, 2017

I know Antigua is a great recruiter the players he helped bring into Kentucky were amazing. I think he can bring that same type of talent to Illinois. But at USF was he in on top
Florida guys? Did he bring any top 100 kids there just wondering. Kentucky does sale itself but he still had to beat out other blue bloods to get players at the level of Wall, Cousins and Davis. Just don't get how he could not get anyone at USF or did he? You would think someone at his supposed level in the the recruiting game would win a few.

Illinimobile · Apr 6, 2017

BLloyd2311 said:
I know Antigua is a great recruiter the players he helped bring into Kentucky were amazing. I think he can bring that same type of talent to Illinois. But at USF was he in on top
Florida guys? Did he bring any top 100 kids there just wondering. Kentucky does sale itself but he still had to beat out other blue bloods to get players at the level of Wall, Cousins and Davis. Just don't get how he could not get anyone at USF or did he? You would think someone at his supposed level in the the recruiting game would win a few.

A lot of transfers out of that program: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/south-florida