Illini Football 2025

1970 John said:

Sports Illustrated published its way-too-early 2025 NCAA football top 25 ranking, and https://www.si.com/college-football/sports-illustrateds-2025-way-too-early-college-football-top-25

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It’s nice to be 6 spots ahead of South Carolina! To be honest - given what we have coming back, I think we should beat them again on a neutral field.

Unbelievable to come into the season with a top 10 ranking if that becomes the consensus - first time since the 80’s I think

If we win the games we’re supposed to and split the others and finish 10-2, that should make the playoffs and then we see another uptick in recruiting and NIL- building momentum to sustainable success. Its a good time to be an Illini fan!

I am getting tired of that poll(that's not a poll, or a ranking) showing up in my X feed. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to explain something meant to stir discussion. It's just bad faith engagement farming.

it is nice having coaches in both major sports that have national cred and national respect

SummerofGeorge said:

Guessing Indiana has us circled on their schedule too. Being unranked after the year they had will make this a big early game on their schedule.

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Really hoping we get a good showing of Illini fans at this one. I am trying to make it a goal to visit one Big Ten football stadium or basketball arena per year that I have never been to, and next football season it is between Indiana and Purdue. Both will likely be perfect fall weather and relatively easy drives from Chicago, but we are still deciding which we would rather do.

On one hand, I have driven through West Lafayette and at least KIND OF got to see that college town, so Bloomington would be more of a new experience. Additionally, the IU game will probably be a cooler atmosphere and potentially even in primetime. On the other hand, we have a good friend who went to Purdue so that could be a fun road trip with them, AND I see a higher probability of a comfortable Illini win in front of a large traveling Illini fan base if we attend the Purdue one.

Fighter of the Nightman said:

Really hoping we get a good showing of Illini fans at this one. I am trying to make it a goal to visit one Big Ten football stadium or basketball arena per year that I have never been to, and next football season it is between Indiana and Purdue. Both will likely be perfect fall weather and relatively easy drives from Chicago, but we are still deciding which we would rather do.

On one hand, I have driven through West Lafayette and at least KIND OF got to see that college town, so Bloomington would be more of a new experience. Additionally, the IU game will probably be a cooler atmosphere and potentially even in primetime. On the other hand, we have a good friend who went to Purdue so that could be a fun road trip with them, AND I see a higher probability of a comfortable Illini win in front of a large traveling Illini fan base if we attend the Purdue one.

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Go to Indiana. I got my master's degree from there in a program where I spent 1-2 weeks each year on campus in a residency program. Really nice campus with a decent Campustown-style area. (Side note - haven't owned an IU item, don't own an IU item, never will own an IU item)

OrangeBlue98 said:

Go to Indiana. I got my master's degree from there in a program where I spent 1-2 weeks each year on campus in a residency program. Really nice campus with a decent Campustown-style area. (Side note - haven't owned an IU item, don't own an IU item, never will own an IU item)

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Having been to both for a day or two I would second the IU choice.

OrangeBlue98 said:

Go to Indiana. I got my master's degree from there in a program where I spent 1-2 weeks each year on campus in a residency program. Really nice campus with a decent Campustown-style area. (Side note - haven't owned an IU item, don't own an IU item, never will own an IU item)

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Yeah, I would certainly be more curious about the visit itself in Bloomington. My sister (a bit biased, went to Butler and lived in Indy for 10 years) says Bloomington is a very nice campus with a charming strip of bars and restaurants but comes across as much more "small town" than some other Big Ten college towns. She is also pretty adamant, though, that while West Lafayette isn't amazing or anything, it tends to get needlessly shlt on and is a perfectly good college town/campus.

Personally, I have never visited a college town that did not have a ton of charm in its own way to me. They're all different, and that's good! The only college town in the entire US that I have never heard anyone rave about even once is College Park, MD, haha ... but the campus looks decent in photos!

Fighter of the Nightman said:

Yeah, I would certainly be more curious about the visit itself in Bloomington. My sister (a bit biased, went to Butler and lived in Indy for 10 years) says Bloomington is a very nice campus with a charming strip of bars and restaurants but comes across as much more "small town" than some other Big Ten college towns. She is also pretty adamant, though, that while West Lafayette isn't amazing or anything, it tends to get needlessly shlt on and is a perfectly good college town/campus.

Personally, I have never visited a college town that did not have a ton of charm in its own way to me. They're all different, and that's good! The only college town in the entire US that I have never heard anyone rave about even once is College Park, MD, haha ... but the campus looks decent in photos!

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I went to grad school at Maryland. The campus and quad are nice, trees and green space. But there was next to zero campus town or any retail commercial places nearby. This was in the 90s. Though College Park does have a Metro station for easy access to downtown DC.

GForce said:

I went to grad school at Maryland. The campus and quad are nice, trees and green space. But there was next to zero campus town or any retail commercial places nearby. This was in the 90s. Though College Park does have a Metro station for easy access to downtown DC.

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Interesting, thank you! And thanks to all for the suggestion to do Indiana instead of Purdue. Either way, I have a long ways to go seeing other college sports venues ... so far, I only have these checked off:

FOOTBALL
Illinois: Obviously love, minus the Horseshoe. And the only reason I am so adamant about fixing the Horseshoe is that MS is so close to being one of the most iconic venues/setups/environments in the ENTIRE sport, especially if we keep getting better and bigger crowds. ALL of the pieces are there.
Iowa: Say what you want about Iowa, but Kinnick Stadium is a true gem. The surrounding setup of mostly neighborhood houses with their own tailgates gives a bit of a Wrigley vibe, and that stadium can get LOUD.
Wisconsin: Honestly pretty overrated, as is their campus. Not trying to be a hater (Madison is objectively cool, and both the stadium/campus were, as well!), but I genuinely do not understand why Camp Randall and Madison get the hype they do.
Vanderbilt: Was mostly just fun because we were visiting my friend in Nashville and got to experience a watered down Southern tailgate with the polos and sun dresses and whatnot, but the stadium is the very definition of "meh."

BASKETBALL
Illinois: Obviously love, and I am actually a huge fan of the renovation, myself. It was about the best we could ever hope for to make the arena objectively "nice" while retaining its uniqueness and charm.
Iowa: Been here even more than Assembly Hall/SFC. Simultaneously a wonderful place to watch a game (literally not one bad seat in the house) and an awful gameday environment overall, lol. It can actually get shockingly loud due to the flat ceiling and the stands being entirely below ground level, but the setup of the student section and general blandness just kill the atmosphere.
Northwestern: The renovations made it "nicer," but it lost pretty much all "fieldhouse appeal," too. The best thing going for it is that it's so small that you feel pretty close to the court no matter what.
Butler: Literally no place like Hinkle, man! As previously stated, my sister went to Butler, so I've been to a couple games here. A mid-day game with the sun streaming in through the windows is so nostalgic. Fun fact, I was actually at this epic miracle buzzer beater back in 2013. Still one of the coolest sporting events I've ever attended.

I've also walked onto the field/court but not attended any games at both Ryan Field at Northwestern (about what you'd expect, lol...) and Allen Fieldhouse at Kansas (truly awesome). My Big Ten bucket list currently starts with PSU and OSU for football, and MSU and Purdue for hoops.

Ramrod2010 said:

Having been to both for a day or two I would second the IU choice.

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I've plunged clogged toilets, and been to Purdue. I'd choose the toilets.

Edit: LOL I wrote this before I read @Fighter of the Nightman 's post. Add me to the sister's list!

Battle89 said:

I've plunged clogged toilets, and been to Purdue. I'd choose the toilets.

Edit: LOL I wrote this before I read @Fighter of the Nightman 's post. Add me to the sister's list!

View attachment 39086

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Lol, when we were in W-L, we thought it was fine and had its charm. Nothing special, but certainly not without any appeal.

(Yes, I’m doing anything to distract myself from another shlt performance vs. Maryland. )

Is it football season yet?

Fighter of the Nightman said:

Interesting, thank you! And thanks to all for the suggestion to do Indiana instead of Purdue. Either way, I have a long ways to go seeing other college sports venues ... so far, I only have these checked off:

FOOTBALL
Illinois: Obviously love, minus the Horseshoe. And the only reason I am so adamant about fixing the Horseshoe is that MS is so close to being one of the most iconic venues/setups/environments in the ENTIRE sport, especially if we keep getting better and bigger crowds. ALL of the pieces are there.
Iowa: Say what you want about Iowa, but Kinnick Stadium is a true gem. The surrounding setup of mostly neighborhood houses with their own tailgates gives a bit of a Wrigley vibe, and that stadium can get LOUD.
Wisconsin: Honestly pretty overrated, as is their campus. Not trying to be a hater (Madison is objectively cool, and both the stadium/campus were, as well!), but I genuinely do not understand why Camp Randall and Madison get the hype they do.
Vanderbilt: Was mostly just fun because we were visiting my friend in Nashville and got to experience a watered down Southern tailgate with the polos and sun dresses and whatnot, but the stadium is the very definition of "meh."

BASKETBALL
Illinois: Obviously love, and I am actually a huge fan of the renovation, myself. It was about the best we could ever hope for to make the arena objectively "nice" while retaining its uniqueness and charm.
Iowa: Been here even more than Assembly Hall/SFC. Simultaneously a wonderful place to watch a game (literally not one bad seat in the house) and an awful gameday environment overall, lol. It can actually get shockingly loud due to the flat ceiling and the stands being entirely below ground level, but the setup of the student section and general blandness just kill the atmosphere.
Northwestern: The renovations made it "nicer," but it lost pretty much all "fieldhouse appeal," too. The best thing going for it is that it's so small that you feel pretty close to the court no matter what.
Butler: Literally no place like Hinkle, man! As previously stated, my sister went to Butler, so I've been to a couple games here. A mid-day game with the sun streaming in through the windows is so nostalgic. Fun fact, I was actually at this epic miracle buzzer beater back in 2013. Still one of the coolest sporting events I've ever attended.

I've also walked onto the field/court but not attended any games at both Ryan Field at Northwestern (about what you'd expect, lol...) and Allen Fieldhouse at Kansas (truly awesome). My Big Ten bucket list currently starts with PSU and OSU for football, and MSU and Purdue for hoops.

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Moved down to Georgia some years back. Neighbor across the street is a lifetime Dawg fan. I mentioned that our stadium was old school cool and that he should check it out if he has the chance. Well, business took him north and he made a point of stopping in Champaign to see the stadium. He was really impressed. Blown away by its classic appearance. Made this old Illini football fan very proud.

Fighter of the Nightman said:

Interesting, thank you! And thanks to all for the suggestion to do Indiana instead of Purdue. Either way, I have a long ways to go seeing other college sports venues ... so far, I only have these checked off:

FOOTBALL
Illinois: Obviously love, minus the Horseshoe. And the only reason I am so adamant about fixing the Horseshoe is that MS is so close to being one of the most iconic venues/setups/environments in the ENTIRE sport, especially if we keep getting better and bigger crowds. ALL of the pieces are there.
Iowa: Say what you want about Iowa, but Kinnick Stadium is a true gem. The surrounding setup of mostly neighborhood houses with their own tailgates gives a bit of a Wrigley vibe, and that stadium can get LOUD.
Wisconsin: Honestly pretty overrated, as is their campus. Not trying to be a hater (Madison is objectively cool, and both the stadium/campus were, as well!), but I genuinely do not understand why Camp Randall and Madison get the hype they do.
Vanderbilt: Was mostly just fun because we were visiting my friend in Nashville and got to experience a watered down Southern tailgate with the polos and sun dresses and whatnot, but the stadium is the very definition of "meh."

BASKETBALL
Illinois: Obviously love, and I am actually a huge fan of the renovation, myself. It was about the best we could ever hope for to make the arena objectively "nice" while retaining its uniqueness and charm.
Iowa: Been here even more than Assembly Hall/SFC. Simultaneously a wonderful place to watch a game (literally not one bad seat in the house) and an awful gameday environment overall, lol. It can actually get shockingly loud due to the flat ceiling and the stands being entirely below ground level, but the setup of the student section and general blandness just kill the atmosphere.
Northwestern: The renovations made it "nicer," but it lost pretty much all "fieldhouse appeal," too. The best thing going for it is that it's so small that you feel pretty close to the court no matter what.
Butler: Literally no place like Hinkle, man! As previously stated, my sister went to Butler, so I've been to a couple games here. A mid-day game with the sun streaming in through the windows is so nostalgic. Fun fact, I was actually at this epic miracle buzzer beater back in 2013. Still one of the coolest sporting events I've ever attended.

I've also walked onto the field/court but not attended any games at both Ryan Field at Northwestern (about what you'd expect, lol...) and Allen Fieldhouse at Kansas (truly awesome). My Big Ten bucket list currently starts with PSU and OSU for football, and MSU and Purdue for hoops.

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You are so right about Iowa and Wisconsin football. Kinnick is a great stadium that's basically everything you could want out of your home school's football stadium. I've only been to Iowa City when its been awfully cold, but you get a sense that it has a great campus into small town downtown vibe that is quintessentially B1G college town. Nothing leaps and bounds over Champaign/Urbana, but I can understand why someone would fall in love with going to school there.

Meanwhile, Madison really is nothing outrageously special. State Street is a good drag, but nothing unheard of. I don't really care that it is down the street from the state capital, and being on the lake doesn't really mean much if your only exposure to it is at a patio at the student union. I asked my cousin what they do at/with the lake, and her response was that they just hang out on the patio. Oh, wow, cool I guess. Also it feels like a very "grey" campus, at least from the buildings. And finally, the football experience at Camp Randall was super underwhelming. I expected a super atmosphere on par with what you see at Penn State, Oregon, and a bunch of SEC schools you can imagine. And it just wasn't. The building has some quaint aspects, but other that feel cold and stale. Really all it is is that Wisconsin came up with a great, well publicized tradition in Jump Around, and they had a 20 year stretch where they were really good. That's why the outside consensus is that Wisconsin is this great campus and Camp Randall is a top whatever stadium. I've said over and over again, I understand the appeal of going to a school like Wisconsin, but I was much more impressed with what I saw at Iowa than what I saw at Wisconsin. Certainly Madison is not a tier above Ann Arbor either, let alone ahead of it.

All that to say, if you are making your first trip to Madison, its fine and all, but don't expect to be transported to college town Valhalla, and don't expect that you are going to experience a football atmosphere that compares with the best in the nation.

redwingillini11 said:

You are so right about Iowa and Wisconsin football. Kinnick is a great stadium that's basically everything you could want out of your home school's football stadium. I've only been to Iowa City when its been awfully cold, but you get a sense that it has a great campus into small town downtown vibe that is quintessentially B1G college town. Nothing leaps and bounds over Champaign/Urbana, but I can understand why someone would fall in love with going to school there.

Meanwhile, Madison really is nothing outrageously special. State Street is a good drag, but nothing unheard of. I don't really care that it is down the street from the state capital, and being on the lake doesn't really mean much if your only exposure to it is at a patio at the student union. I asked my cousin what they do at/with the lake, and her response was that they just hang out on the patio. Oh, wow, cool I guess. Also it feels like a very "grey" campus, at least from the buildings. And finally, the football experience at Camp Randall was super underwhelming. I expected a super atmosphere on par with what you see at Penn State, Oregon, and a bunch of SEC schools you can imagine. And it just wasn't. The building has some quaint aspects, but other that feel cold and stale. Really all it is is that Wisconsin came up with a great, well publicized tradition in Jump Around, and they had a 20 year stretch where they were really good. That's why the outside consensus is that Wisconsin is this great campus and Camp Randall is a top whatever stadium. I've said over and over again, I understand the appeal of going to a school like Wisconsin, but I was much more impressed with what I saw at Iowa than what I saw at Wisconsin. Certainly Madison is not a tier above Ann Arbor either, let alone ahead of it.

All that to say, if you are making your first trip to Madison, its fine and all, but don't expect to be transported to college town Valhalla, and don't expect that you are going to experience a football atmosphere that compares with the best in the nation.

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Been to both campuses many times. 100% agree.

That lake in Madison gets all the positive PR, and if you're close to it, great. But the southern half of that campus is just academic halls interspersed with industrial / commercial Rust-belt buildings. Not impressive at all and Iowa City has a much better layout, school and town.

Illiniguy74 said:

Moved down to Georgia some years back. Neighbor across the street is a lifetime Dawg fan. I mentioned that our stadium was old school cool and that he should check it out if he has the chance. Well, business took him north and he made a point of stopping in Champaign to see the stadium. He was really impressed. Blown away by its classic appearance. Made this old Illini football fan very proud.

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Yep, I have had friends either be shocked at how cool they actually felt Memorial Stadium was or who felt it was shockingly underwhelming for a Big Ten stadium. Before I go down one of my favorite rabbit holes, it is worth pointing out one inescapable fact ... a venue's reputation is ALMOST always inseparable from the team's history of success. While there are some exceptions in pro sports (e.g., Wrigley Field), this is almost always the case, and even more so for college sports. If Minnesota had the basketball tradition of Duke, The Barn would be considered a top 5 venue in all of college hoops ... yet as we stand, it is an afterthought to the vast majority of fans. On the other hand, if Indiana had the history of Minnesota ... their Assembly Hall's "uniqueness" would have no more charm than how people have a passing curiosity toward Vanderbilt's bizarre gym, lol. So, in that vein, Memorial Stadium would have a MUCH better reputation as an iconic venue if the crowds/environments/results we saw last year vs. Kansas and Michigan had been the norm for several years.

With that said, I have also always felt strongly that Memorial Stadium suffers greatly from having three different "vibes" going on at once, and they are NOT all created equally. For those who would get bored reading all the way down, they are:

1. The column exterior (on both sides) and the on-theme East Main/East Balcony setup.
2. The comparatively smaller West Main (including the pressbox on top) and the NEZ student section.
3. The Horseshoe, which looks both underwhelming and out of place from an interior AND exterior perspective.

In short, I feel that Vibe #1 is among the most unique and iconic in the country. Vibe #2 is more or less on par with your average bland post-2000 renovation - nothing detracting from the stadium, but nothing adding to it (besides the visible column towers on each side of the pressbox). Vibe #3 is noticeably below average compared to a major conference stadium, and its lack of cohesion with the rest of the stadium REALLY hurts the "finished product," especially when we aren't good or don't have a good crowd.

1. Column Exterior/East Side: Nothing short of iconic. Majestic, unique, timeless and something to be truly proud of. Imagining a stadium that had this level of grandeur on all four sides, interior and exterior, gives me chills. It would stand toe to toe with any college football cathedral in the nation.





2. West Side & North End Zone: While still fine (I'm no engineer and don't have a better idea of how we would have fixed up the pressbox), it is just a clear step down in scale from the first set of pictures. It's smaller, it's a tad less historic-looking and it just has less charm. I've also just found that it looks so weird (and kills the old symmetry of MS) that there are SO many fewer rows before the balcony on the West Side compared to the East; the seating capacity looks relatively tiny in the shadow of the pressbox. The NEZ could be a lot worse and is also fine, but it just looks a tad more generic and less of the traditional architectural style of the stadium.




3. The Horseshoe: I have made my thoughts known on the Horseshoe far too many times, so I won't take up space beating a dead horse. However, it is pretty obviously the eyesore of our stadium, both on the inside and the outside. It looks almost shockingly short/small compared to the rest of the stadium, it's way too far from the end zone and the exterior looks kind of unfinished at best and like an active construction site at worst. Surprisingly decent place to watch a game, I'll admit ... but aesthetically and for creating a home field advantage, it's a problem.




Right now, I'd say our Vibe #1 is an A+, our Vibe #2 is a B and our Vibe #3 is a C- (at least the scoreboard and trees behind it are cool). That would be a B- grade overall, but since the Horseshoe is the smallest section, I would certainly give our stadium a B+ or so. I love it for all of its charms and it is SUPREMELY underrated nationally, but it needs some fixin'. Getting the Horseshoe up to that Vibe #2 level would honestly get us into that A tier for me ... and it's a pretty easy fix. Anything beyond that is gravy and just catapults us into the truly special class of stadiums. Maybe someday!!

Prob. not the place for this but its fun.....

Featuring: 1) punting on 2nd down 2) Tommy O'Connell playing QB 3) Crushing hits out of bounds 4) Single wing football and "split ends". 4) An Illini win. 5) Phillips 66 advertising oil good up to 1000 miles or 10 weeks. 6) And most important a tribute to the Alma Matter statue on ILL campus that will be the template for BBs statue in front of Memorial Stadium in a few years.

ILLINISON1 said:

Prob. not the place for this but its fun.....

Featuring: 1) punting on 2nd down 2) Tommy O'Connell playing QB 3) Crushing hits out of bounds 4) Single wing football and "split ends". 4) An Illini win. 5) Phillips 66 advertising oil good up to 1000 miles or 10 weeks. 6) And most important a tribute to the Alma Matter statue on ILL campus that will be the template for BBs statue in front of Memorial Stadium in a few years.

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I like the coach smoking a celebratory cigarette after our first touchdown.

^ RE: This video, Harvard's stadium is so cool. Imagining a "BCS version" with 60K+ capacity would be one of the coolest in the country:



For context, it seats just 25K, lol.

GForce said:

I like the coach smoking a celebratory cigarette after our first touchdown.

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Better than Beckman dippin'

What part of Georgia do you live in? Somewhere in Metro Atlanta?

My 2025 Ranking of B1G Starting QBs

*What you've already proven in college means a LOT more to me than your future projections.
**No weight provided to those starting at elite programs. I don't care about you having the advantage of OSU's weapons or Riley calling plays for you.
**Viewed purely on if there was a draft and B1G could pick any available (assumed) starting QB for 2025 only.
***Slight point deduction if your path to starting is not clear.

Tier 1 - Stars
1. Drew Allar (Penn State) - Stats are incredible. Big leap forward in completion % in '25. Has no WRs. Bias for struggling against elite programs is too much.
2. Luke Altmyer (Illinois) - Decision making was much improved in '25. Has ceiling as #1 conference guy. Scary to face in tight game in waning minutes.
Tier 2 - Budding Stars
3. Dylan Raiola (Nebraska) - Lots of hype going into 2024 and performed pretty well. Can easily see a jump in 2025. Tools are there.
4. Fernando Mendoza (Indiana) - transfer from Cal. Tons of experience for only a true Junior. Very accurate passer. Took big strides last year.
5. Demond Williams (Washington) - Isiah Williams' QB fever dream. Short but can run and throw it well. Lit up Louisville in bowl game. #1 2024 B1G QB rating.
Tier 3 - High Floor
6. Mark Gronowski (Iowa) - transfer from South Dakota St. Was awesome at FCS. A guy who's going to be play mistake-free but doesn't have big talent.
Tier 4a - High Ceiling but Unknown Floor
7. Bryce Underwood (Michigan) - 2025 #1 overall recruit. Talent is obvious. He's a freshman. Can he be 2024 Raiola?
8. Jayden Maiava (USC) - Started last four 2024 games. Would have thrown 18 ints across a full season. Great second half against TAMU in bowl game.
9. Julian Sayin (Ohio State) - 2024 #1 QB prep. Very limited action this last year but didn't impress. How would he do if you put him on Michigan State?
Tier 4b - Mendoza Line
10. Billy Edwards (Wisconsin) - transfer from Maryland. Might start Dany O'Neil. Has been serviceable. Was playing well early last year before team quit.
11. Aidan Chiles (Michigan State) - Lots of hype going into 2024 and disappointed. Decision making slightly improved but lost confidence down the stretch.
12. Athan Kaliakmanis (Rutgers) - Might be the ultimate Mendoza line returning QB. Has great running instincts. Need to hold his hand when passing.
Tier 4c - Boom or Bust/Regressed Last Time They Were Starters
13. Preston Stone (NW) - transfer from SMU. Struggled to start last year and was replaced. Put up really good 2023 numbers. Can NW find his '23 version?
14. Dante Moore (Oregon) - Disappointed as a UCLA freshman and only threw 8 passes last year. Biggest gap between surrounding talent and his own.
15. Joey Aguilar (UCLA) - transfer from App State. Regressed last year and has thrown 24 INTS across past two seasons. Can UCLA find his '23 version?
Tier 5 - We Know Nothing & Not a Former Blue Chipper
16. Justyn Martin (Maryland) - transfer from UCLA. Might not be starter. former 4-star who's only throw 35 career passes. Decent stats against PSU last year.
17. Zach Pyron (Minnesota) - transfer from Georgia Tech. Might not be starter. Backup at GT and thew a lot of picks in limited time. Willing runner.
18. Malachi Singleton (Purdue) - transfer from Arkansas. Purdue brought in a bunch of guys, could be open competition. Ranked as the 21st best transfer QB.



Notes. The gap after the first five and the remaining 13 seems substantial to me. The first five are guys who have proven they can go and win a game for their team. Guys 6 through 11 have the pedigree and potential, but either haven't done or have a history or losing a game they shouldn't. So much movement between tiers 4 and 5. Billy Edwards could be the 6th best QB in the conference or he might not start a game this year (Dany O'Neil might even be a high floor tier guy! Preston Stone was awesome last year but he's now not playing with talent superiority every game. Singleton has done almost nothing in college. Maybe he's awesome? He could also be horrendous.