Illinois 73, Penn State 65 Postgame

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#301      
Illini B-Ball Fan
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#303      
BashCtIllini
People are forgetting an important aspect of that game, it was boring to watch. Nothing like 2 teams shooting under 25% from 3 chucking up 65 3s anyway. Both teams under 40% from the field. The only good shooting stat in that game is we shot 82% from the FT line, and lucky we did too. If we had shot FTs like we shot 3s, that game would have been dicey.

Oh how I wish modern basketball would go back to scoring from all 3 levels. When the 3s aren't falling, the modern analytic response is just shoot more 3s. It used to be more drives, more feeding the post, running set plays to get good looks.
 
#304      
hooraybeer
Illini B-Ball Fan said:
Hey, good morning, now that we've slept on it. The below may or may not have been posted already, yet apologies if so. Trying to stay neutral here, but Tomi with 0 pts and 2 reb? Rethink the starting 5, coach - a benching may help him and the team (insert Ben, anyone, instead?). Go Illini!

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😂

my only addition to the thread is doesn’t Tomi’s play/seeming regression reflect poorly on OA, our big man guru? I’m happy to have OA on staff as much as anyone but come on
 
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#305      
Indy Illini Fan
NarrowJ said:
Will Wade is the man for tearing into his entire team after 36 point win

Will Wade is also the man for defending Darrion Williams poor play

Brad is lame and ineffective no matter what he says about any player in any situation

It’s science
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First of all … Just @ me next time … Happy to discuss why I make the comments I make …

Second of all … At least Wade has some freaking fire in his belly … He calls it like he sees it … He lit into his team after a 36 point win because it wasn’t the STANDARD … How quickly you all forget Brad getting after TJ and Mirk … Let’s just hold everyone to the same standard ?? Why does Tomi get a pass ??

I never once referenced him defending Darrion but since you wanna bring it up, the kid had a bad shooting night in that game … As Wade said, he was literally doing everything else … Rebounding, Assists … ZERO turnovers … Brad is essentially saying Tomi performance in Big Ten play is fine and he’s not worried about it … The facts are that it is not fine … It does not meet the standard … If this is the best he can give us then we aren’t 2nd weekend good …

Brad does a whole lot more sitting than he does standing and coaching … It’s Tyler standing up and waving his arm around telling them to run while Brad sits …

There’s no science to it … It’s pretty black and white but I’ll explain it further … There’s playing hard and meeting the standard and there’s not … Tomi is not playing hard, and he’s not meeting the standard and he’s getting called out for it … He got called out by the Big Ten TV Crew last night and he’s getting called out on here …

Numbers never lie … Here is Tomi through 3 Big Ten games:

- 24.3 minutes per game
- 3.3 points per game
- 3.0 rebounds per game
- 20% from the floor
- 20% from three

He needs to be better or he can start sitting on the bench with Brad … Period …
 
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#306      
Indy Illini Fan
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
 
#307      
Second place is 1st loser
Chukwuwumba said:
And honestly, Tomi should’ve earned his starting spot this year instead of having it given to him.
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Right now, Tomi is taking a bit of a beating and rightfully so. He was bad.

The guy who is getting a free pass is Stojakovic. With Wagler in foul trouble, that was his time to step up on offense and make things happen. Given the opponent, the opportunity for more shots and the Penn State foul trouble, the fact that he didn't have 25 is pretty ridiculous. He didn't get to the rim, finish at the rim or at very least feast at the foul line.
One of the buckets he did make was a ridiculous turnout jumper fading left and being a right handed shooter, the level of difficulty was 9.5 out of 10. That's great, but given what he was up against, no way that shot should have been needed.

Indy talks about guys making money and the need for production....that was a lazy effort too. Wagler has been great for us, but there is NO WAY that a freshman, who we expected to give us some decent minutes in a fairly decent role prior to the season should have the weight of the roster on his shoulders. This is a recipe for failure.

If Tomi and Stojakovic don't start leaving significant imprints(positive ones) on these games, the final result will be average. Those are our money makers and they should both be our money players.

Pretty sure that's Brad's expectation. What's currently going on isn't sustainable. That said, I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss any day, every day.
 
#308      
CleverHandle1
Indy Illini Fan said:
First of all … Just @ me next time …

Second of all … At least Wade has some freaking fire in his belly … He calls it like he sees it … He lit into his team after a 36 point win because it wasn’t the STANDARD … How quickly you all forget Brad getting after TJ and Mirk … Let’s just hold everyone to the same standard ?? Why does Tomi get a pass ??

I never once referenced him defending Darrion but since you wanna bring it up, the kid had a bad shooting night in that game … As Wade said, he was literally doing everything else … Rebounding, Assists … ZERO turnovers … Brad is essentially saying Tomi performance in Big Ten play is fine and he’s not worried about it … The facts are that it is not fine … It does not meet the standard … If this is the best he can give us then we aren’t 2nd weekend good …

Brad does a whole lot more sitting than he does standing and coaching … It’s Tyler standing up and waving his arm around telling them to run while Brad sits …

There’s no science to it … It’s pretty black and white but I’ll explain it further … There’s playing hard and meeting the standard and there’s not … Tomi is not playing hard, and he’s not meeting the standard and he’s getting called out for it … He got called out by the Big Ten TV Crew last night and he’s getting called out on here …

Numbers never lie … Here is Tomi through 3 Big Ten games:

- 24.3 minutes per game
- 3.3 points per game
- 3.0 rebounds per game
- 20% from the floor
- 20% from three

He needs to be better or he can start sitting on the bench with Brad … Period …
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Those are bad numbers; he definitely needs to step it up. I remember BU calling him tough on several occasions.

I was perplexed/baffled by this but thought maybe BU described Tomi as "tough" because he went through injuries/illnesses and played through for a time.

As for his mentality on the court and his aggressiveness, I don't think "tough" would be a word to describe him.

Let's hope he gets out of this funk, rediscovers himself and puts forth the effort. I still think he can be very effective by posting up and baby hooking his defenders. Doesn't BU see this in how they can use Tomi?
 
#309      
GoodePodzMelendez
IllinoisIntegrity said:
Tallest team in the NCAA, the biggest in Illinois history. I scratch my head why the bigs aren’t being fed more, especially when the 3’s aren’t falling or starting front court gets in foul trouble. Consistent lack of adjustment and utilization of prime talent is concerning.
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We didn’t move the ball as crisp last night. They were packed in as we just lollygagged the ball without player movement. When we move without the ball, it creates space and their defense has to work harder.
 
#310      
NarrowJ
Indy Illini Fan said:
First of all … Just @ me next time … Happy to discuss why I make the comments I make …

Second of all … At least Wade has some freaking fire in his belly … He calls it like he sees it … He lit into his team after a 36 point win because it wasn’t the STANDARD … How quickly you all forget Brad getting after TJ and Mirk … Let’s just hold everyone to the same standard ?? Why does Tomi get a pass ??

I never once referenced him defending Darrion but since you wanna bring it up, the kid had a bad shooting night in that game … As Wade said, he was literally doing everything else … Rebounding, Assists … ZERO turnovers … Brad is essentially saying Tomi performance in Big Ten play is fine and he’s not worried about it … The facts are that it is not fine … It does not meet the standard … If this is the best he can give us then we aren’t 2nd weekend good …

Brad does a whole lot more sitting than he does standing and coaching … It’s Tyler standing up and waving his arm around telling them to run while Brad sits …

There’s no science to it … It’s pretty black and white but I’ll explain it further … There’s playing hard and meeting the standard and there’s not … Tomi is not playing hard, and he’s not meeting the standard and he’s getting called out for it … He got called out by the Big Ten TV Crew last night and he’s getting called out on here …

Numbers never lie … Here is Tomi through 3 Big Ten games:

- 24.3 minutes per game
- 3.3 points per game
- 3.0 rebounds per game
- 20% from the floor
- 20% from three

He needs to be better or he can start sitting on the bench with Brad … Period …
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If I wanted to direct something at you, I'd have done it. It was a general comment re: the overall theme of how various other coaches are viewed when they handle certain players in certain ways versus our own staff. I'd say overall he has been plenty successful in getting a response out of players when needed.

Everyone agrees that Tomi needs play better in the HUGE sample size you've provided here (3 games). He was also keyed on by the defense last night from the get go, which as a guy who claims to know basketball I'm unsure why you hadn't pointed that very obvious part out. You just called him 'lazy'... well, gee, pot meet kettle, your analysis is 'lazy' as well. Tomi was great against Tenn (just for example), so lets all agree we hope we can get that Tomi in more games than not.
 
#312      
GoodePodzMelendez
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
Click to expand...
Agreed, Wagler is the cog that makes this offense go. Bam plays so much better off the ball. We weren’t hitting open threes. The ball last night rarely went into the post. Our offense runs so much better when the ball goes into the post. Tomi was doubled but he could not react to find the open player. We were not fluid in our passing or motion.
 
#313      
BashCtIllini
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
Click to expand...
That's a little wild. Wagler was not expected to be a lead guy. However, he leads us in points, assists, steals, FT shooting, and 3pt shooting, and is 3rd in rebounds.

So if we're saying this team struggles without Wagler, what would we have been if we didn't strike gold with him, and we were playing who the staff expected?

Doesn't really matter because we do have him, and if he wasn't playing other guys would get those stats, but I have been very critical of our offense which boils down primarily to standing around the 3pt line jacking 3s. With Wagler, we shoot 34.7% from 3, without him we shoot a full point worse at 33.5%.
 
#314      
BashCtIllini
Second place is 1st loser said:
Right now, Tomi is taking a bit of a beating and rightfully so. He was bad.

The guy who is getting a free pass is Stojakovic. With Wagler in foul trouble, that was his time to step up on offense and make things happen. Given the opponent, the opportunity for more shots and the Penn State foul trouble, the fact that he didn't have 25 is pretty ridiculous. He didn't get to the rim, finish at the rim or at very least feast at the foul line.
One of the buckets he did make was a ridiculous turnout jumper fading left and being a right handed shooter, the level of difficulty was 9.5 out of 10. That's great, but given what he was up against, no way that shot should have been needed.

Indy talks about guys making money and the need for production....that was a lazy effort too. Wagler has been great for us, but there is NO WAY that a freshman, who we expected to give us some decent minutes in a fairly decent role prior to the season should have the weight of the roster on his shoulders. This is a recipe for failure.

If Tomi and Stojakovic don't start leaving significant imprints(positive ones) on these games, the final result will be average. Those are our money makers and they should both be our money players.

Pretty sure that's Brad's expectation. What's currently going on isn't sustainable. That said, I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss any day, every day.
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I don't have a problem with Tomi struggling, that happens. I have a problem with what looks to me to be lack of effort.

I think people overvalued Stojakovic. He's slow. He's never going to be a great defender. He's not a great shooter. What he does have is elite body control and an amazing ability to shoot off balance shots. I personally was not high on Stojakovic because of exactly what we're seeing. It was in his stats, not a great shooter. Then when you watched clips, you could see he was not a great athlete. He is highly skilled and is a really good part of a roster. I wouldn't want to rely on him as your star.
 
#315      
From the cheap seats
The notion that you can just drive the ball into the teeth of a defense set up to clog driving lanes is interesting. When Andrej does it and loses the ball, he catches heat. When others realize it's a fruitless strategy, they catch heat for not doing it anyway. Even Mirk, who usually does it regardless, realized what was going on, took the ball as deep as he could and then made a pass. It's what a read-and-react offense does. His decision-making is why the offense ran through him in the latter stages of the game in the absence of Wagler. Run the high-low when a team is doubling everything in the lane? The usual result is a pass back out...for a three.
Of the 27 threes the Illini took, I counted 3 of what I would call bad shots. The problem was missing good open looks, shooting roughly one half the percentage the team had been at for the last several games. And yet the game, though not pretty, was really never in doubt as Penn State never got closer than the final 8-point margin. The Illini shot 28 free throws, indicative of two things: aggressively attacking early and being fouled out of desperation late because of the lead they had built. It's the type of win almost every team that has won the tourney has had to survive (other than that UConn team), sometimes in the first round against a mid-major team.
 
#316      
Battle89
Just wait until they meet up with Sean May and UNC in St. Louis…

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#318      
Battle89
Homecoming 2019 said:
The difference between 8 and 15 was a couple of garbage time shots that fell for PSU. You cant really feel any better if we had just closed better in a game already decided.
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Historically I’d agree, but that argument today goes against the way Brad coaches in the analytical era.

When questions are asked about why the starters are still in, late in a blowout win (like Southern), the answer given is that victory margins matter in the metrics that the committee uses.

If they matter in those wins then they matter in games like PSU also.
 
#319      
OB positive
Indy Illini Fan said:
After FSU game and especially after TCU game I knew that Florida team was way over rated …

Not losing to Mizzery bad though … That’s wild …
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I wouldn’t say that about Florida. They took Duke to the wire and got beat on a last second shot. They are just not dominating like last year.
 
#320      
EmpoweredIllini
Battle89 said:
Historically I’d agree, but that argument today goes against the way Brad coaches in the analytical era.

When questions are asked about why the starters are still in, late in a blowout win (like Southern), the answer given is that victory margins matter in the metrics that the committee uses.

If they matter in those wins then they matter in games like PSU also.
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Very fair, however also reasonable to not assume we should always win that last 90 second segment with large leads when Davis, Lee, etc are in
 
#323      
21ChampaignSt
Huge Tomi fan. Thought he could be a potential All American this year. He's had a few good moments but so far he hasn't yet lived up to expectations this season. That's just a fact.

On the offensive end, he's not being asked to do as much as last year - not as many PnR's, not as many post entries, not as much facilitating, not as many opportunities. So, the offensive numbers are kind of easy for me to explain away. You could say the staff needs to get him more opportunities, but why? The offense has been humming. No reason to disrupt it.

But he is noticeably slower and less aggressive this year on defense and loose ball situations. Which, Tomi was never exactly known for his play on that end of the court, but it does seem to me that something is off. I remember TJ's first year here, when he would have a slow night on offense, he would kind of disappear in the other facets. Maybe that's happening a little bit? Or maybe it is still some lingering health issues?

Hoping that whatever it is improves throughout the year. Good, multidimensional Tomi makes us a hard(er) out.
 
#325      
GoodePodzMelendez
9 assists in 22 baskets is below adequate. We need 50 to 60% every game. 6 of the assists came from our two freshmen. Bam notched zero. Tomi with zero. Davis, Petro and AS had the other 3. Braden Smith is an assist machine. We need to do better. A lot better.
 
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