Lol. Except I didn't.
Illinois 75, Tennessee 62 Postgame
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Noblesville Illini
- Nappanee, IN
One word: Calapari!!!
So is it negative or not? Because earlier you said you had said nothing negative. Now it's just that it's negative, just not as negative as what others have said about Ben.
Look, you went negative. I responded. Yes, I'll defend players that I admired. I'll check out now.
Look, you went negative. I responded. Yes, I'll defend players that I admired. I'll check out now.
So just an FYI, Lucas blew out his knee right before that senior season and rushed back on his torn acl in something like 3 months and contributed greatly to our elite 8 run. That's why he only played 17 games. It's just why it's so hard to make broad based comparisons 25 years later. Lucas was a legend for many fans because he was sort of the embodiment of the heart and soul, desire and tenacity that Illini fans have. He was one of us and gave everything he had every second he was on the court. That's why he was so loved.
But guess what, if Ben plays as hard as he has this year throughout the rest of the season, he'll be loved too. Ben's not Lucas, but he doesn't need to be. Nobody is. He just needs to be the best Ben he can be. And you can see in the dramatic shift of most Loyalty member's tone and respect for Ben compared to last year. He keeps doing what he's doing it'll be very difficult for any Illini fan not to like it.
That all said, hopefully this is where all comparisons end. Lucas was a legend, Ben has been great this year. That's all that really needs to be said
I would hope so, but are you suggesting he didn’t play hard last year? Idk about that… doesn’t really seem that playing hard is good enough for people anymore
The fact my (factual) statement that Ben is a better player has ignited such a fervent defense of Lucas is just further proving my point
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As I recall, Lucas had a way of getting under the skin of every player and coach on the other team. It was a master class in how to be that kind of player. Thankfully, he was ours.
Ben is an angel in comparison.
@pruman91 , sounds like you have a lot of time on your hands, time to read about your situation. First of all, very happy that you are happy with the care you are getting. So, on substack, check out recent articles on your situation from "A Midwestern Doctor" (https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/). Let me know.
Stats smats...does Ben have a daughter that the beloved is very interested in playing for the Women's team...that's extra credit there...
Do not understand Lee not seeing time last night. He is our second best on ball defender and he is a dawg just like Feliz.
My argument is more of a "why exactly is this comparison being made?" and just trying to make sure you understand the late 90s early 00s time period than anything else. There's just not much similarity between the two players and they served vastly different roles. I just think you're getting defenders of Lucas a bit riled up because the "factual statement that Ben is a better player than Lucas" is an inherently flawed argument.
Just as an example it's like saying in hockey that a 3rd liner is better than a 4th line/Checking liner in hockey because they have better stats. But the goal of the 4th line is generally to shut down the opposing 1st line superstars and get them off their game. They play a much different role. A valuable 4th liner is often better than a 3rd liner despite the stat differences.
In other words, the comparison between the players just doesn't make sense to me. If you put Ben in Lucas's jersey in the 90s and 00s, Lucas would perform much better. You put Lucas in Ben's jersey in a modern game and Ben would perform better. It's just 2 different players, 2 different roles, 2 different eras. That's why you're getting a fervent defense.
I accept and respect your opinion but disagree with it
I also think their roles overlap a lot more than you do, that alone might cause us to be a little further apart on this. Actually, the part I disagree with the most is you saying if you put Ben on those late 90s/early 00s teams that he would perform worse and vice versa. Also those are just our opinions, there is no way we’ll ever prove that one way or another, so we’re just forced to agree to disagree.
And again, the only measurable data we have shows BH as the far better and more effective player who also won a higher percentage of the game he played in. Do you think players 25 years ago were more athletic or less athletic?
This discussion has probably already taken up too much space on here, but suppose they’re equal players in terms of overall contribution/effectiveness (I think that’s false but I’m trying to see your viewpoint here): why has Ben been beaten down like a rented mule for 1.5 seasons while Lucas is revered?
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I love Wagler. But that’s not fair to KJ. The usage and postion is not the same
Totally aligned overall on the TOs and Tomi. I thought Tomi was moving excellent.
blackdog
- Champaign
The original original point, taking out any particular players, was that role players didnt used to draw criticism the way that they can now. Personally I dont have enough first hand knowledge to form an opinion one way or the other.
Yeah this really spiraled.
A guy with worse stats in a similar role (both forwards who are role/support players) is being defended into oblivion.
But you got it: original point was just that with the internet that there’s a whole lot more armchair analysis.
Having been at the '63 IHSA tournament, the first at Assembly Hall, where undefeated Centralia (my team was one of their wins in the sectional final) was "smedleyed" by Carver in the final seconds, I can truthfully say I have never been to a louder venue. Those high school kids stood and yelled for their teams for the entire game. It was impressive and an indelible memory.
But you are right in saying that the neutral venues the Illiini have visited this season have provided a more exciting atmosphere than the regular SFC crowds.
I think that's likely true with regards to bench role players. I do recall Nick Smith getting heat, but he wasn't raked over the coals. Michael Finke definitely created anger as a sub. But most everyone who has gotten unnecessary criticism over the years was a starter. And Ben did technically fall into that category last year. I don't like when our fans do that but I get it and it's gone back a long time, even before I attended Illinois.
My earliest memory of this where I thought fans were crazy was Frank Williams. Some would argue about how "lazy" he was. Then there was Chester Frazier and his offense, Demetri McCamey and his "laziness", Brandon Paul was crucified for every turnover he made and "not caring about the ball", Damonte "not adding anything of value", CoHawk for being CoHawk. There's been a lot of it over the years. Usually it occurs when expectations of some fans are above what is realistic for a given player.
I think people thought Ben would be a clone of Domask last year, and when he wasn’t and he struggled, people lost it.
And just so I raise my hand here, the player who irrationally drove me nuts was Matthew Mayer. We're all susceptible.
This phrase has always mystified me … why would anyone want to hold another’s supporting apparatus?
There were a handful of posters, including me, who were adamant that Ben was sorely needed by this year's Illini team. Sure, he was recruited and asked to fire away from the arc and it resulted in putting him in a role as a major scorer for a B1G title hopeful....one he had never had success or experience performing.
But historically, there are very few players with his skill and desire to help his team that do not improve from season to season. After getting "Fletched" and with a season of B1G experience, his confidence and determination to prove his worth was predictable. Though he can easily hit 40% from the arc if he uses better judgement, he is needed to use his size and athleticism in many other ways that are so valuable. He has become exactly the player I envisioned. I also think he will prove to be more consistent as the season goes. Having him and MIrk is a luxury this team has never had any puts pressure on opponents for 40 min.
Please do not forget that the number of 24 year olds that are 6''9" tall with some athleticism and a season of B1G experience, confidence, and desire to prove what he can do is quite small, and maybe just one. I, for one, am glad he is an Illini one.
But historically, there are very few players with his skill and desire to help his team that do not improve from season to season. After getting "Fletched" and with a season of B1G experience, his confidence and determination to prove his worth was predictable. Though he can easily hit 40% from the arc if he uses better judgement, he is needed to use his size and athleticism in many other ways that are so valuable. He has become exactly the player I envisioned. I also think he will prove to be more consistent as the season goes. Having him and MIrk is a luxury this team has never had any puts pressure on opponents for 40 min.
Please do not forget that the number of 24 year olds that are 6''9" tall with some athleticism and a season of B1G experience, confidence, and desire to prove what he can do is quite small, and maybe just one. I, for one, am glad he is an Illini one.
I think this is the wrong feeling. He’s clearly enjoying the team and he’s very competitive. He wants to be on the court and he wants to be contributing. I like the fire, even if it obviously came out wrong in that moment. He immediately knew he was in the wrong when OA went at him. He and OA were totally fine at each timeout.
He’ll come good around mid-late January. He’s far too talented to not figure it out. His frustration is justified and it’s part of playing high level sports.
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He’s gotta finish the lay ups
He did - he was a lot of fun to watch. People say SFC is somewhat quiet. It is, but back then it wasn't when Lucas did his thing. Fans also bought into his type of "energy".
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Lute Olson just turned over in his grave hearing about this comment…….
pruman91
- interviewing new NL's daily....I really really am
I really really really really really really really will.....lol..Sorry to hear about the stroke my Illini friend....praying for your full recovery....this board just isn't the same without Pru man's unique analysis and colorful commentary...it really really isn't...follow doc's orders and let the NL's take care of you
I hope you're wrong about this. He passes the eye-test for me. He has been able to get to rim with relative ease...he just needs to finish. And if everyone recalls, lack of finishing was the knock against Kylan Boswell for a good portion of last season. Also, he might appear small, but he stays in front on defense and his man rarely gets a downhill drive to the hole like he does on the other end.
pruman91
- interviewing new NL's daily....I really really am
IDKWJRI....
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