Illinois 76, Iowa 64 POSTGAME

#76      

Deleted member 4960

D
Guest
Deleted member 4960
For all of you folks complaining about Tracy's minutes last night, you do realize we were up double digits and most of the time close to 16! He was obviously trying to play him to try and get him back on track. I think most of you would agree if Tracy can start shooting the ball descent again he is an asset to this team. I'm sorry but TJL and JCL have been nowhere near enough consistent to be playing 30 + mins. TJL has career high of 10 puts, went 1-4 last night and has been shooting under 50% on fts. JCL has been in a funk for most of the Big ten season also with a little but if a breakthrough last night. We need Tracy to turn it around!
 
#77      

RickBB

R
RickBB
bombayIllini said:
Did I hear Coach say that Tracy recommended Lucas start?
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I inferred that as well in the immediate post game talk with Seth Davis.

Kudos to Tracy if its true....which honestly I do not doubt at all. He could be very selfish with his minutes with all he's been through.

More concern with Groce though if it is indeed the case. "Players play players" isn't supposed to mean that. It's supposed to mean you evaluate playing time based on their abilities. Great leadership by Tracy...terrible by Groce.

And whenever someone says TJL isn't consistent enough to play 30 minutes, I don't know what you are watching. PGs are going to have some turnovers. His vision and ability to get the ball to shooter at the right spots at the right time is far above anyone else's ability. Watch the game and quit looking at the analytics and statistics.
 
#79      

blmillini

B
Bloomington, IL
blmillini
Chathamillini said:
For all of you folks complaining about Tracy's minutes last night, you do realize we were up double digits and most of the time close to 16! He was obviously trying to play him to try and get him back on track. I think most of you would agree if Tracy can start shooting the ball descent again he is an asset to this team. I'm sorry but TJL and JCL have been nowhere near enough consistent to be playing 30 + mins. TJL has career high of 10 puts, went 1-4 last night and has been shooting under 50% on fts. JCL has been in a funk for most of the Big ten season also with a little but if a breakthrough last night. We need Tracy to turn it around!
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Whether TA is making shots or not, we have to have someone on this team play defense and he is one of the few that does.
 
#80      

Old Number 51

O
Old Number 51
Obelix said:
He had a few momentum killers, almost all of them involved TJL-Tracy. It was obvious he was trying to help Tracy mentally/psychologically who was struggling. At the end, he gave Tracy a really big hug, evident of his effort to try to lift him up.
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Aaaaaaw Isn't that special?

Group hugs is the last thing this team or Tracy needs

What this team needs is to play the best players more and the weaker players as deep reserves. What this team needs is a kick in the arse when they do bonehead plays or have a lapse in effort!!

What Tracy needs, is to played sparingly so he can finish his long, injury filled career with more wins and the respect he deserves for sticking with this team though all the adversity he has faced.

The Iowa game showed us (again) that this team has the talent to make a run to the tourney if only JG and his staff can get their act together..... Like NOW!!
 
#81      

gibb52

G
gibb52
Finke with a great game.

TJL with his first start, looked good. The O just flows better with him in the game. He'll get better as he plays more.

Mav with another solid effort. He's really developed into an asset.

Malcolm a quiet 11, but a lot of that was due to foul trouble.

Leron played well when he was in there, yielded some minutes to MF due to the hot hand.

JCL another meh. Nowhere near the player I thought he'd be by now.

Good to see Tracy knock down a couple of shots. Not good to see a 6th yr guard make poor decisions with the ball.

Kipper with energy and hustle.

I thought Thorne looked a little more mobile when he was in there. Maybe he's getting into playing shape for the stretch run. Or maybe my imagination.

Tate with a nice bucket on the drive. Didn't do much else, but didn't do anything to hurt us either.

DJW and AJ zero impact. IMO these 2 have now reached Bust territory. Wings make the easiest transition to CBB and late into year 2 these 2 can't play on a likely NIT team. Not good.

JG still with the strange sub patterns. Like everyone else I can't figure him out. More than once he had JT TA and Kipper on the floor together. Who's going to "score the basketball" coach?

We beat an Iowa team at home. Good. They might not even make the NIT, so hold the confetti. But we won. On to PSU. Go Illini.
 
#82      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
dweebs19 said:
If he's here next year, I'm kinda glad that he will have to play the best players by default of his favorites leaving.
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I hope he stays just so I can throw this in everyone's face when they're melting down about playing JCL over DaMonte and DJW over Pickett and TJL over Frazier and 5th year big TBD over Tilmon.
 
#83      

FollowTisdale

F
FollowTisdale
HeartofaChampion said:
We're up 10-0 or 11-0 and rolling and he yanks TJL and JCL with 16:45 left in the first half. Didn't end up hurting us, but just makes no sense. Those guys were really clicking.
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This is what drives me the most crazy, and it's why we never put teams away. Just play 8 guys and let TJL play 30+ minutes (i know he was close tonight, but still). A really bad Iowa team (with Jok a shell of himself) made it a 9 point game late in the 2nd half when Illinois should have been up by 20 if they kept the pressure on; ie play the actual good players more than the bad ones.
 
#85      

Dan

Dan
Admin
Dan
[YOUTUBE]ZFwHJ81XBv0[/YOUTUBE]
 
#86      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
gibb52 said:
Finke with a great game.

TJL with his first start, looked good. The O just flows better with him in the game. He'll get better as he plays more.

Mav with another solid effort. He's really developed into an asset.

Malcolm a quiet 11, but a lot of that was due to foul trouble.

Leron played well when he was in there, yielded some minutes to MF due to the hot hand.

JCL another meh. Nowhere near the player I thought he'd be by now.

Good to see Tracy knock down a couple of shots. Not good to see a 6th yr guard make poor decisions with the ball.

Kipper with energy and hustle.

I thought Thorne looked a little more mobile when he was in there. Maybe he's getting into playing shape for the stretch run. Or maybe my imagination.

Tate with a nice bucket on the drive. Didn't do much else, but didn't do anything to hurt us either.

DJW and AJ zero impact. IMO these 2 have now reached Bust territory. Wings make the easiest transition to CBB and late into year 2 these 2 can't play on a likely NIT team. Not good.

JG still with the strange sub patterns. Like everyone else I can't figure him out. More than once he had JT TA and Kipper on the floor together. Who's going to "score the basketball" coach?

We beat an Iowa team at home. Good. They might not even make the NIT, so hold the confetti. But we won. On to PSU. Go Illini.
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Appreciate the summary. Had my head going up and down agreeing with you a lot :thumb:
 
#87      

FollowTisdale

F
FollowTisdale
Second and Chalmers said:
Which 8?

You wouldn't have included Finke if I'd asked you this question 24 hours ago.
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TJL, JCL, Abrams, Hill, Black, Finke, Mav, and probably Kipper, it's kind of a struggle to even get to 8. Only play the others when fouls become and issue.

And I understand that (primarily) has been the rotation for the last few games. If we could have installed that earlier in the season maybe we'd have made some progress by now.

I realize I'm picking nits here, but I fully jumped off the Groce ship once TJL didn't get significantly increased playing time after the second half of the NC State game; arguably the best half of basketball we played all year. I'm not basketball savant, but continuing to give Tate minutes over him at that point in the season was close to = to putting in Wacha who hadn't pitched 3 months in the elimination inning of the 2012 NLCS (worst coaching decision in the past decade, regardless of sport).
 
#88      

blmillini

B
Bloomington, IL
blmillini
Old Number 51 said:
Aaaaaaw Isn't that special?

Group hugs is the last thing this team or Tracy needs

What this team needs is to play the best players more and the weaker players as deep reserves. What this team needs is a kick in the arse when they do bonehead plays or have a lapse in effort!!

What Tracy needs, is to played sparingly so he can finish his long, injury filled career with more wins and the respect he deserves for sticking with this team though all the adversity he has faced.

The Iowa game showed us (again) that this team has the talent to make a run to the tourney if only JG and his staff can get their act together..... Like NOW!!
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I'm not sure winning a game at home against a beaten, battered and sick Iowa team where we still showed considerable warts showed anything relative to a tournament run.
 
#89      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
FollowTisdale said:
continuing to give Tate minutes over him at that point in the season was close to = to putting in Wacha who hadn't pitched 3 months in the elimination inning of the 2012 NLCS (worst coaching decision in the past decade, regardless of sport).
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Sounds a bit like starting Kyle Schwarber for his first major league action in 6 months in the World Series. What a bonehead move that was. ;)

But I still say people need to appreciate the possibility that TJL is a better player today for having been brought along at the pace he was.
 
#90      

FollowTisdale

F
FollowTisdale
Second and Chalmers said:
Sounds a bit like starting Kyle Schwarber for his first major league action in 6 months in the World Series. What a bonehead move that was. ;)

But I still say people need to appreciate the possibility that TJL is a better player today for having been brought along at the pace he was.
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Putting an injured Wacha in that position in that game would have been the same as putting an immobile Scwarbs in LF in the bottom of the 9th with the winning run on 3rd base and a pull happy right handed hitter up. But that's neither here nor there. (My frustration for Matheny is worlds beyond anything I could ever feel for Groce).

There's a possibility that TJL was brought along at the right pace and he would have failed getting 30 mins a night after that NC State game. There's also a possibility that that game showed us he was ready right then and there but simply wasn't given the minutes because Groce leaned on the guards he knew. I lean towards the latter, but I guess we'll never know.
 
#91      

lstewart53x3

lstewart53x3
Scottsdale, Arizona
lstewart53x3
Losing Nunn hurt this team big time.

For one, he's a much better/more dynamic player than JCL.

And on top of that, having Nunn would move JCL to the back up 2.

And JCL at the back up 2, would move Abrams to the back up 1. Which would move Tate off the floor almost completely and we wouldn't have to play Tate & Abrams at the same time.

We're a much better team with Nunn this year.
 
#92      

BananaShampoo

B
Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
BananaShampoo
lstewart53x3 said:
Losing Nunn hurt this team big time.

For one, he's a much better/more dynamic player than JCL.

And on top of that, having Nunn would move JCL to the back up 2.

And JCL at the back up 2, would move Abrams to the back up 1. Which would move Tate off the floor almost completely and we wouldn't have to play Tate & Abrams at the same time.

We're a much better team with Nunn this year.
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Agree. More than most will admit. He brought dimensions to his game that our team is sorely lacking, but kicking him off the team was the 100% right move.
 
#93      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
lstewart53x3 said:
Losing Nunn hurt this team big time.

For one, he's a much better/more dynamic player than JCL.

And on top of that, having Nunn would move JCL to the back up 2.

And JCL at the back up 2, would move Abrams to the back up 1. Which would move Tate off the floor almost completely and we wouldn't have to play Tate & Abrams at the same time.

We're a much better team with Nunn this year.
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Disagree. This team needs another ball-stopper like a hole in the head.
 
#95      

LurkLongandProsper

L
C-U
LurkLongandProsper
lstewart53x3 said:
Losing Nunn hurt this team big time.

For one, he's a much better/more dynamic player than JCL.

And on top of that, having Nunn would move JCL to the back up 2.

And JCL at the back up 2, would move Abrams to the back up 1. Which would move Tate off the floor almost completely and we wouldn't have to play Tate & Abrams at the same time.

We're a much better team with Nunn this year.
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I don't really agree with this. I don't think Nunn makes us worse, but I don't think he makes us better, either. Not a defender, another bad shot taker and ball stopper, etc. Would he allow us to not play Tate? Sure (not a Tate hater myself, think he's fine as a backup PG, stop playing him with TA), but Tate's not playing heavy minutes nor is he the root of our problems. Nunn doesn't fix any of the issues, just adds another guy who likes to launch from deep. I don't think he'd be worth more than maybe 1 win, and certainly wouldn't fix our road issues.
 
#96      

combes

C
combes
lstewart53x3 said:
Losing Nunn hurt this team big time.

For one, he's a much better/more dynamic player than JCL.

And on top of that, having Nunn would move JCL to the back up 2.

And JCL at the back up 2, would move Abrams to the back up 1. Which would move Tate off the floor almost completely and we wouldn't have to play Tate & Abrams at the same time.

We're a much better team with Nunn this year.
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I'm anxious to see if JCL takes a big step forward with a healthy off season to work on his game. He has not had that since he has been at Illinois. Has started behind both years. I don't think he has ever gotten his confidence in his shot this year after his hand injury cost him developmental time.
 
#97      

Illinidreamin

I
Paris, IL.
Illinidreamin
LurkLongandProsper said:
I don't really agree with this. I don't think Nunn makes us worse, but I don't think he makes us better, either. Not a defender, another bad shot taker and ball stopper, etc. Would he allow us to not play Tate? Sure (not a Tate hater myself, think he's fine as a backup PG, stop playing him with TA), but Tate's not playing heavy minutes nor is he the root of our problems. Nunn doesn't fix any of the issues, just adds another guy who likes to launch from deep. I don't think he'd be worth more than maybe 1 win, and certainly wouldn't fix our road issues.
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Have to disagree with you here. Nunn was more of our drive guy. Yes he shot 3's and at a pretty decent clip. He also was our best defender. Led the team in steals if I remember right. Hard nosed and was not afraid to "DUNK THE BALL".
(I so miss above the rim basketball at Illinois). Would have made a difference this year in my opinion.
 
#98      

LurkLongandProsper

L
C-U
LurkLongandProsper
Illinidreamin said:
Have to disagree with you here. Nunn was more of our drive guy. Yes he shot 3's and at a pretty decent clip. He also was our best defender. Led the team in steals if I remember right. Hard nosed and was not afraid to "DUNK THE BALL".
(I so miss above the rim basketball at Illinois). Would have made a difference this year in my opinion.
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Nunn was not consistently a slasher at all. Nunn took 22 more 3 point attempts than 2 point attempts last season, and didn't shoot any sort of impressive percentage from 2 point range either. I don't have a split for # of attempts at the rim, but FT attempts tend to be a good indicator, and he took 2.3 a game last year, compared to Malcolm's 6.3. Malcolm Hill is our best slasher.

Also, steals aren't necessarily an indicator of good defense. Malcolm Hill's defensive win shares were higher last year .Nunn stopped defending with any consistency after he was locked into the starting lineup his sophomore year.

(All stats sourced from Sports Reference)
 
#99      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
LurkLongandProsper said:
Also, steals aren't necessarily an indicator of good defense. Malcolm Hill's defensive win shares were higher last year .Nunn stopped defending with any consistency after he was locked into the starting lineup his sophomore year.
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Yup, Nunn started as a defensive stopper, but as his expanding role on offense took up more and more of the energy he had to expend on the floor, his defense really declined.

You could conceive of a role for Nunn that would help this team. As a sort of 3rd option shooter/slasher off the bench who could trouble opposing guards on D.

But if Nunn were on this team, I think he would be more likely to be taking a ton of shots, stopping the flow of the offense, and not leaving enough in the tank for the other end of the floor.

I don't know if JCL is a better player, but he's the better fit with the rest of the pieces here. He and TJL complement each other.