Illinois 79, Michigan State 74 Postgame

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#476      
illini 67
Champaign88 said:
We gave up 52 points in the second half. Trying to break their rhythm running what they were running and getting them to stand around for a couple possessions might be worth the possibility that they still score on those plays.
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A few teams have thrown a zone at us. they lasted one play, or two. We hit an open three and they went back to man to man. The fastest way to get back in the lead is start hitting threes.
 
#478      
EyeoftheIllini
LouHenson said:
Could be, but we are a fast athletic team if he is playing the 5. The game has changed so much not sure there are positions anymore. Certainly in the NBA centers are point guards. Your probably right, I just cringe ever time Payne is on the floor. He maybe good down the road, but thank god Kofi came back because he would foul out of every game if he had to play more than 15 per.
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I agree that at this point Payne doesn’t look like the answer as starting center this year. And with an off season, I could see working with Hawk so that he is at least an option at the 5. I don’t think that is the best use of his talents and would prefer they put full efforts into maximizing his play at the 4, but using a small ball lineup next year at times could be another weapon. I just don’t think you can install that on the fly this year and really expect it to be all that effective — especially given that the center position in this year’s offense is predominantly in the low post except for pick and roll. If the Illini offense put the center in pick and pop situations, then sure maybe using Hawk there might make sense. Maybe I’m mistaken and it isn’t as difficult as I think to put someone into the center position. I think in the Illini offense as it is now the center and point guard positions are the most difficult to try and shoe horn someone into. DMW and Hawk (to a lesser degree) had to be used at PG and we saw the impact it had — and that was out of necessity. Those two weren’t terrible I don’t think in that role, but the offense certainly was less effective.

Again, Payne and BBV’s performances haven’t been good overall — and they’ve made me cringe too — but I think they’ve had their moments. I just think right now getting Hawk right at the 4 is more a pressing need than improving the backup center position performance. I thought Hawk had a good game — not a great game — against MSU, and I think we all saw what that meant in the game. If he keeps elevating his performance at the 4, the Illini can weather the 7-10 minutes when backup 5s are in.
 
#479      
HailChief89
So glad I have the opportunity to watch Michigan State in Illinois right now. Oh my goodness you guys were right Jay Williams is literally worse than Steve Bardo, as an announcer wow! The guy is just horrible who makes the game hard to watch
 
#480      
LouHenson
EyeoftheIllini said:
I agree that at this point Payne doesn’t look like the answer as starting center this year. And with an off season, I could see working with Hawk so that he is at least an option at the 5. I don’t think that is the best use of his talents and would prefer they put full efforts into maximizing his play at the 4, but using a small ball lineup next year at times could be another weapon. I just don’t think you can install that on the fly this year and really expect it to be all that effective — especially given that the center position in this year’s offense is predominantly in the low post except for pick and roll. If the Illini offense put the center in pick and pop situations, then sure maybe using Hawk there might make sense. Maybe I’m mistaken and it isn’t as difficult as I think to put someone into the center position. I think in the Illini offense as it is now the center and point guard positions are the most difficult to try and shoe horn someone into. DMW and Hawk (to a lesser degree) had to be used at PG and we saw the impact it had — and that was out of necessity. Those two weren’t terrible I don’t think in that role, but the offense certainly was less effective.

Again, Payne and BBV’s performances haven’t been good overall — and they’ve made me cringe too — but I think they’ve had their moments. I just think right now getting Hawk right at the 4 is more a pressing need than improving the backup center position performance. I thought Hawk had a good game — not a great game — against MSU, and I think we all saw what that meant in the game. If he keeps elevating his performance at the 4, the Illini can weather the 7-10 minutes when backup 5s are in.
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I agree with everything you say, just wish Payne would have been more of what we all hoped. We are going to have to figure out how to cover that high ball screen MSU ran in the second half as we will see a lot more of it going forward.
 
#481      
HailChief89
Illini Nation! Think about Bill Walton in Jay Williams announcing a game being the color commentators for basketball game? We will literally have to hit the mute button after 2 minutes
 
#482      
KOTC2
Another crucial win on the road, and as much as I hate MSU and loved the win, I'm absolutely going to be a Spartan fan this Saturday.
 
#483      
EyeoftheIllini
LouHenson said:
This.

The only complaint (that is too strong a word also - I just don’t know what I would call it?) with BU’s game today was when he got trapped with Payne in the game looking for the under 8 minute time out.

You just knew Payne would miss the front end, MSU would come down and hit a 3 and BU would need a time out to get Kofi back in.

I know he was trying to steal minutes to get to the under 8 TO, just worked out terribly for us.

I think we should give Hawkins some back up minutes at the 5 when Kofi rests. He is every bit as good a shot blocker as Payne and a much much better offensive player. Obviously you can’t do that against a Purdue type center, but he is 6’10”. He played very well today, and Payne just is really an issue any time he is on the floor.

In fact, Payne pretty much has to have Curbello out there with him as his only offense is the lobs that Dre throws for him. I am pretty sure those same plays could be run for Hawkins?

Payne needs some work to be a serviceable big in the BIG, hope that comes next year as we are going to need him. Hard to believe he was ranked only 1 spot behind Kofi coming out of HS.
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Had to come back to this and give you props. I was wrong. Not sure I want a steady dose of Hawk at 5 — mainly because means Kofi is probably in foul trouble and some matchups would be bad — but Hawk did a hell of a job versus OSU.
 
#485      
LouHenson
EyeoftheIllini said:
Had to come back to this and give you props. I was wrong. Not sure I want a steady dose of Hawk at 5 — mainly because means Kofi is probably in foul trouble and some matchups would be bad — but Hawk did a hell of a job versus OSU.
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Nice of you! For sure I am not asking for any reduction in kofi’s minutes, more just we get nothing out of Payne (besides a foul). When Hawkins plays the 5 we are sort of mirroring how the NBA is played. In a game like tomorrow against Dickheadson it will not work at all as Hawkins can’t guard him, but against many centers he is quicker and just such a better offensive (really all around) player than Payne is.

I just had a feeling it would work, you could have just as easily been completely correct.
 
#486      
WizardBill
LouHenson said:
Nice of you! For sure I am not asking for any reduction in kofi’s minutes, more just we get nothing out of Payne (besides a foul). When Hawkins plays the 5 we are sort of mirroring how the NBA is played. In a game like tomorrow against Dickheadson it will not work at all as Hawkins can’t guard him, but against many centers he is quicker and just such a better offensive (really all around) player than Payne is.

I just had a feeling it would work, you could have just as easily been completely correct.
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I do not totally agree. There have been times when Payne played well. There have been times when Hawk played like yesterday's sushi. So, yes, I think Hawk is the better option right now, but I think you are just a bit overselling it, and underselling Payne's value.
 
#487      
LouHenson
WizardBill said:
I do not totally agree. There have been times when Payne played well. There have been times when Hawk played like yesterday's sushi. So, yes, I think Hawk is the better option right now, but I think you are just a bit overselling it, and underselling Payne's value.
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Could be? I just don’t see anything out of Payne besides being able to block a shot. Just my opinion :). Hawkins for sure has more of a skill set, just a question of not being tentative, again just my opinion :)
 
#488      
IlliniKat91
LouHenson said:
Could be? I just don’t see anything out of Payne besides being able to block a shot. Just my opinion :). Hawkins for sure has more of a skill set, just a question of not being tentative, again just my opinion :)
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From what I've seen of Omar Payne, the fouls come when he reaches. That can be untaught (provided the player is focusing on it). He has great feet when it comes to moving into position on defense and understands timing. (Hence his great ability to block.)

On offense, he needs better hands. He has the same issue Kofi had last year catching Belo's passes when they first started playing together. The issue is, he's not just surprised by Belo; it seems like he's never expecting to get the ball. That's a whole other problem that needs to be addressed.

There's a lot of good, raw potential there, but the fact that two D1 staffs haven't been able to tap into it iss caution flag.
 
#489      
GBIllini
IlliniKat91 said:
From what I've seen of Omar Payne, the fouls come when he reaches. That can be untaught (provided the player is focusing on it). He has great feet when it comes to moving into position on defense and understands timing. (Hence his great ability to block.)

On offense, he needs better hands. He has the same issue Kofi had last year catching Belo's passes when they first started playing together. The issue is, he's not just surprised by Belo; it seems like he's never expecting to get the ball. That's a whole other problem that needs to be addressed.

There's a lot of good, raw potential there, but the fact that two D1 staffs haven't been able to tap into it iss caution flag.
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I think Payne is a wash. Doesn't seem to know how to play without the ball, often looks like he is just standing around not sure what to do. We can't even get a good look at him anymore because he can't stay on the floor for fouling. I don't think he will ever be more than a backup 5 good for 4 to 5 minutes a game for this program. However I hope he proves me wrong.
 
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