Illinois 79, Northwestern 68 Postgame

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#226      
Vinegarben
I am sick and tired of the referees being in the spotlight. The flagrant call against Keaton could just have easily been called against NW. They both were fighting for the ball, grabbing each other. Call it a jump ball and move on. I saw Keaton on the floor a couple of times but he wasn't bleeding so no harm. Carstensen is the worst referee I have ever seen. He looks for something to call against Illinois. He reminds of Jim Enwright from several years ago he always made horrible calls against us. The Illini had a 13 point lead and the foul and flagrant against Keaton followed by technical on Brad [which was bull!!!! too] gave NW 8 quick points!
Thankful that didn't kill us in the end. The refs need to swallow the damn whistles or at least be consistent with the same call for both side.
 
#228      
aaeismacgychel
ILLFAN67 said:
The call on Wagler was so ridiculous he had his arm interlocked with the NW for maybe .5 a second? That’s not a hook and hold maybe just a hook?
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Personally, based on the how the rules are currently enforced, I thought both the foul on Ben and the foul by Keaton were correctly upgraded to flagrant. The foul on Ben was a classic hook and hold. Basically the definition. Arm grabbed and interlocked by opponent so the player can't grab the ball with both hands or jump effectively. The play by Keaton is stupid in terms of it being defined as a hook and hold, but because he fouled from behind on a breakaway, didn't touch ball, and grabbed upon missing the ball, that was in my opinion was indeed an intentional foul and correctly upgraded to a flagrant.

I don't take issue with either call. But the appeals process, man does that suck. Just excruciating for fans, slows down the game, and sucks the absolute life out of it, combined it being used in a manner where ticky tack contact can be upgraded like the Iowa game. I'd almost rather they change the rule such that a coach can appeal a play and refs will look at the next commercial break to assess whether free throws are needed and a flagrant awarded. And even then it should only overturn clear flagrant. If you can't tell if it's a flagrant within 20 seconds of looking at the tape, it's not.

So both flagrant were correct calls in my opinion but the appeal process needs to go.

However, I thought that tech called on Brad under a minute later on what looked like should have been a goaltending call was an extremely short leash garbage call, especially since you just called a flagrant 30 seconds earlier. Good refs go over and say, "Hey Brad, I get it, you're pissed. Do you want me to T you up or you want to sit the hell down?" Simple stuff.
 
#229      
Se Il Illini
Se Il Illini said:
Totally agree with this assessment particularly when it comes to turnovers. I spent a lot of time last year yelling at the TV. That has been the case this year.
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The last sentence should: That has NOT been the case this year. My apologies. My fingers get ahead of my brain sometimes or is it the other way around.
 
#231      
Fighter of the Nightman
I find it really interesting how much less specific and analytical my thoughts are about a game when I attend in person, haha. Part of it certainly could be the beers, but I also think getting caught up in the gameday atmosphere when you're there in person causes you to nitpick less than you would while watching on TV, and thus I view the game as more of an event to be thought about at a higher level. With that said, here are some random things I thought about after that game.

1. Related to my point about less specific analysis, I was pretty unaware of who had X points or Y rebounds or anything like that. Instead, I came away from that game SO thankful that we have Boswell. His intangibles and energy are so valuable and probably don't get enough praise here.

2. It's kind of hilarious to see how different fan bases are, lol. Obviously, any Power Conference fan base involves tens of thousands (and even millions) of people, all with different backgrounds, temperaments, perspectives, etc. However, you can still draw general conclusions about stereotypes, and they are pretty funny. My wife and I laughed so hard that every time we were in the concourse, we'd see like five Northwestern fans who all looked so proper and soft spoken or whatever, and every Illini fan had a beer in hand and was visiting with his/her friends in a much more festive manner.

3. That arena really is a great place to watch a game. Don't get me wrong, it drives me nuts that I have to pay that much for a ticket because of their tiny capacity, added on to beers that are too expensive and two pricey Ubers there and back. However, there is not a bad seat in the house. We sat in 216, and IIRC we sat in 217 last year ... those are SUPER good seats, and they were actually a lot less expensive than some of the options in the upper decks on either side.

4. Lastly, props to Illini fans! I have posted before that we have attended a few Illini games there, and my rough estimates of the Illini/NU crowd split were about 45/55 in 2019, an incredible 70/30 in 2020, 55/45 in 2022 and close to 50/50 last year. I think we got close to that 70/30 split last night. When you would scan the crowd, you would subconsciously think, "Wow, that is a lot of orange ... maybe over 50% of the crowd!" However, if you just trained your eye on a given row, you would notice that MAYBE 50% of Illini fans were wearing orange, with a ton wearing navy, white or gray. In fact, we picked a random row as a super small sample size, and I think there were like 3 Northwestern fans and 13 Illini fans, with like 6 of the Illini fans wearing orange. Once you took that into account ... yikes, there were WAY more Illini fans there than Northwestern fans. My only complaint is I was actually a little surprised our fan contingent wasn't more rowdy ... watching the YouTube highlights this morning, we also never sounded that loud on TV. We still cheered and supported the boys, but it felt quite subdued compared to the folks who were at the United Center. Once again, I remain fascinated how different of vibes you can get from an Illini crowd contingent from venue to venue, haha.

5. With that said on the crowd, I still wanted to end on a positive of once again thanking Illini fans for turning out in such great numbers! It would have been even cooler if we all wore orange and created an even more embarrassing visual for Northwestern, but without further ado, I give you ... the Welsh Ryan Arena WHITE OUT! :ROFLMAO:

IL Pic.jpeg


I-L-L!
 
#232      
Fly Illini Fly!
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
My opinion on these two Wagler hook and holds: if those are flagrants, we should be able to benefit from AT LEAST one each game by way of Underwood's "appeal."

Good job today, and a heck of a rebound by Ben.
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Does anybody know… is there a limit to this “coaches appeal” thing? So, can you only do it once or is it unlimited?

If it’s the latter, I can’t imagine it’s without any restrictions about being right or wrong the first time (?)

We should definitely look to shoot our shot at least once each game, IMO.
 
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#234      
Piotyr
The only real odd thing in this game compared to the rest of their schedule is that NW shot twice as many FTs as Illinois. That was what contributed most to their defensive efficiency being down, and Illinois is the #1 team in the country in limiting opposing FTs. It's probably just an anomaly, but I can only imagine what the score would have been if that was normalized.
 
#235      
NarrowJ
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Does anybody know… is there a limit to this “coaches appeal” thing? So, can you only do it once or is it unlimited?

Either way, I can’t imagine it’s without any restrictions about being right or wrong the first time.

We should definitely look to shoot our shot at least once each game, IMO.
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Appeals are different than challenges in that they are for specific, non-judgment calls (though I disagree that a hook & hold is not a judgment call... that should use one of the 2 challenges and not an appeal, which are unlimited).

I was watching Alabama game a few nights ago and Nate Oats made like 6 appeals throughout the course of the game. The commentators were beside themselves and the game went more than 30 minutes over its scheduled window.

EDIT: A hook and hold is defined in the rulebook as "an attempt to deceive officials, which is an illegal, non-judgment contact that carries an increased risk of injury" (the bolded being pertinent as to why it can be appealed rather than challenged)
 
#236      
Fly Illini Fly!
NarrowJ said:
Appeals are different than challenges in that they are for specific, non-judgment calls (though I disagree that a hook & hold is not a judgment call... that should use one of the 2 challenges and not an appeal, which are unlimited).

I was watching Alabama game a few nights ago and Nate Oats made like 6 appeals throughout the course of the game. The commentators were beside themselves and the game went more than 30 minutes over its scheduled window.
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:oops: :oops:

Officiating has become a joke….
 
#237      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
NarrowJ said:
Appeals are different than challenges in that they are for specific, non-judgment calls (though I disagree that a hook & hold is not a judgment call... that should use one of the 2 challenges and not an appeal, which are unlimited).

I was watching Alabama game a few nights ago and Nate Oats made like 6 appeals throughout the course of the game. The commentators were beside themselves and the game went more than 30 minutes over its scheduled window.

EDIT: A hook and hold is defined in the rulebook as "an attempt to deceive officials, which is an illegal, non-judgment contact that carries an increased risk of injury" (the bolded being pertinent as to why it can be appealed rather than challenged)
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ugottabjoshinme said:
Appeals are unlimited.

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So shouldn’t Brad do it every time there’s ANYTHING close to a hook?!

I’m glad we got the call on Ben.

EDIT: to quote a post after
 
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#238      
ugottabjoshinme
ILLFAN67 said:
The call on Wagler was so ridiculous he had his arm interlocked with the NW for maybe .5 a second? That’s not a hook and hold maybe just a hook?
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It was a short duration, but Wagler did hook and pull down a little bit which is in the spirit of the rule.
 
#240      
ugottabjoshinme
#241      
Bigtex
Nice 1st half adjustment by Staff - Wagler wasn't in Wagler form and they took him off as lead offensive initiator.
 
#244      
EmeraldCityIllini
ugottabjoshinme said:
It was a short duration, but Wagler did hook and pull down a little bit which is in the spirit of the rule.
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Arms getting tangled for a brief second on a loose ball was never the spirit of the rule.

The spirit of the rule was locking on to Isaac haas, strongly ripping down while he was midair, and breaking his arm. If officials had just done their job and called a flagrant foul then, we’d be freed of this insanity.

Literally just making up rules
 
#245      
Battle89
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I find it really interesting how much less specific and analytical my thoughts are about a game when I attend in person, haha. Part of it certainly could be the beers, but I also think getting caught up in the gameday atmosphere when you're there in person causes you to nitpick less than you would while watching on TV, and thus I view the game as more of an event to be thought about at a higher level. With that said, here are some random things I thought about after that game.

1. Related to my point about less specific analysis, I was pretty unaware of who had X points or Y rebounds or anything like that. Instead, I came away from that game SO thankful that we have Boswell. His intangibles and energy are so valuable and probably don't get enough praise here.

2. It's kind of hilarious to see how different fan bases are, lol. Obviously, any Power Conference fan base involves tens of thousands (and even millions) of people, all with different backgrounds, temperaments, perspectives, etc. However, you can still draw general conclusions about stereotypes, and they are pretty funny. My wife and I laughed so hard that every time we were in the concourse, we'd see like five Northwestern fans who all looked so proper and soft spoken or whatever, and every Illini fan had a beer in hand and was visiting with his/her friends in a much more festive manner.

3. That arena really is a great place to watch a game. Don't get me wrong, it drives me nuts that I have to pay that much for a ticket because of their tiny capacity, added on to beers that are too expensive and two pricey Ubers there and back. However, there is not a bad seat in the house. We sat in 216, and IIRC we sat in 217 last year ... those are SUPER good seats, and they were actually a lot less expensive than some of the options in the upper decks on either side.

4. Lastly, props to Illini fans! I have posted before that we have attended a few Illini games there, and my rough estimates of the Illini/NU crowd split were about 45/55 in 2019, an incredible 70/30 in 2020, 55/45 in 2022 and close to 50/50 last year. I think we got close to that 70/30 split last night. When you would scan the crowd, you would subconsciously think, "Wow, that is a lot of orange ... maybe over 50% of the crowd!" However, if you just trained your eye on a given row, you would notice that MAYBE 50% of Illini fans were wearing orange, with a ton wearing navy, white or gray. In fact, we picked a random row as a super small sample size, and I think there were like 3 Northwestern fans and 13 Illini fans, with like 6 of the Illini fans wearing orange. Once you took that into account ... yikes, there were WAY more Illini fans there than Northwestern fans. My only complaint is I was actually a little surprised our fan contingent wasn't more rowdy ... watching the YouTube highlights this morning, we also never sounded that loud on TV. We still cheered and supported the boys, but it felt quite subdued compared to the folks who were at the United Center. Once again, I remain fascinated how different of vibes you can get from an Illini crowd contingent from venue to venue, haha.

5. With that said on the crowd, I still wanted to end on a positive of once again thanking Illini fans for turning out in such great numbers! It would have been even cooler if we all wore orange and created an even more embarrassing visual for Northwestern, but without further ado, I give you ... the Welsh Ryan Arena WHITE OUT! :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 46540

I-L-L!
Click to expand...
I-N-I

And when the center banner over your basketball area celebrates your 42-year-old volleyball conference (not national) championship, what does that say about your basketball history?
 
#246      
band camp
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I find it really interesting how much less specific and analytical my thoughts are about a game when I attend in person, haha. Part of it certainly could be the beers, but I also think getting caught up in the gameday atmosphere when you're there in person causes you to nitpick less than you would while watching on TV, and thus I view the game as more of an event to be thought about at a higher level. With that said, here are some random things I thought about after that game.

1. Related to my point about less specific analysis, I was pretty unaware of who had X points or Y rebounds or anything like that. Instead, I came away from that game SO thankful that we have Boswell. His intangibles and energy are so valuable and probably don't get enough praise here.

2. It's kind of hilarious to see how different fan bases are, lol. Obviously, any Power Conference fan base involves tens of thousands (and even millions) of people, all with different backgrounds, temperaments, perspectives, etc. However, you can still draw general conclusions about stereotypes, and they are pretty funny. My wife and I laughed so hard that every time we were in the concourse, we'd see like five Northwestern fans who all looked so proper and soft spoken or whatever, and every Illini fan had a beer in hand and was visiting with his/her friends in a much more festive manner.

3. That arena really is a great place to watch a game. Don't get me wrong, it drives me nuts that I have to pay that much for a ticket because of their tiny capacity, added on to beers that are too expensive and two pricey Ubers there and back. However, there is not a bad seat in the house. We sat in 216, and IIRC we sat in 217 last year ... those are SUPER good seats, and they were actually a lot less expensive than some of the options in the upper decks on either side.

4. Lastly, props to Illini fans! I have posted before that we have attended a few Illini games there, and my rough estimates of the Illini/NU crowd split were about 45/55 in 2019, an incredible 70/30 in 2020, 55/45 in 2022 and close to 50/50 last year. I think we got close to that 70/30 split last night. When you would scan the crowd, you would subconsciously think, "Wow, that is a lot of orange ... maybe over 50% of the crowd!" However, if you just trained your eye on a given row, you would notice that MAYBE 50% of Illini fans were wearing orange, with a ton wearing navy, white or gray. In fact, we picked a random row as a super small sample size, and I think there were like 3 Northwestern fans and 13 Illini fans, with like 6 of the Illini fans wearing orange. Once you took that into account ... yikes, there were WAY more Illini fans there than Northwestern fans. My only complaint is I was actually a little surprised our fan contingent wasn't more rowdy ... watching the YouTube highlights this morning, we also never sounded that loud on TV. We still cheered and supported the boys, but it felt quite subdued compared to the folks who were at the United Center. Once again, I remain fascinated how different of vibes you can get from an Illini crowd contingent from venue to venue, haha.

5. With that said on the crowd, I still wanted to end on a positive of once again thanking Illini fans for turning out in such great numbers! It would have been even cooler if we all wore orange and created an even more embarrassing visual for Northwestern, but without further ado, I give you ... the Welsh Ryan Arena WHITE OUT! :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 46540

I-L-L!
Click to expand...
Awesome post. I felt like I was there reading about the small sample size of a row that were/are ILLINI fans compared to kitty fans..
 
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