That is an incredible pic haha. Hawkins is in complete awe of King Kofi and that Misery player looks completely terrified. Love it
Illinois 88, Missouri 63 Postgame
The problem with the UC games were the requirement to return the game when you get a top team. If you couldn't get two teams going at once you'd have a situation where you'd be short a home game. A tough scheduling issue.
It got a bit tougher with the ACC challenge.
Probably because UK is over in Lexington. Louisville is much closer.
It's not a national game NOW because both teams have sucked for the last decade before BU got here. Now just one team sucks.
When both teams were good it was a prime time Dickie Vitale game.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Why are people acting like we wouldn’t pull a huge crowd at the UC last year (without COVID) or this year? We drew between 15-20k+ every year before the literal depths of the Groce years and the early stages of Underwood digging us out. It’s not some scary hypothetical, we regularly got bigger crowds than in Champaign when we were good and/or drew a decent opponent.
I decided to re-watch the game incase there was a play that I missed. Yep........ the beatdown was just as enjoyable the 2nd time
13K for the UIC game in 2010. We were ranked 12. Usually the attendance numbers are inflated and actual bodies in the seats are much lower.
The scheduling issues had already begun back then. Hard to find a good team to come in to the venue. Teams love their home games and the revenue generated.
Don’t ever delete from vcr just like last year’s Michigan game. Enjoy over and over!
Where can I see a replay of the game?
VCR? You from Missouri?
Well, actually I already did. But I also stated that I don't have a good answer to that as well. I suggested Kentucky playing somewhere like Louisville (although I think Louisville fans would not like that very much). And BretMyBeachHouse above had several good suggestions. It just seems as if people cannot fathom the idea of discontinuing this series like it has been written in stone since Moses. It hasn't. Someone in 1976 (or 75?) decided to schedule a game between Illinois and Missouri and it became a great game at least during the 80s and 90s when both teams were consistently good, made the NCAA tournament regularly so there was more to the game than just playing each other. A Missouri writer, Sam Snelling said in a recent post (SB Nation),
"Officially the “Braggin’ Rights” part of this game came around in the early 80s, with the two programs at a crescendo of success. Illinois and Missouri were two of the more consistently good programs from 1980 to the late 1990s. Illinois missed the NCAA tournament just four times from 1980 to 2000. While Missouri missed the tournament just five times in that same span.
But since the 2000-01 season, Missouri has just 7 wins in the series, and three of those were over the previous three years. The previous four games came when Mike Anderson was revving up at the same time Bruce Weber had lost Bill Self’s recruits, and eventually turned the program over the John Groce.
I’m not sure the point of this intro really. I think I’m just avoiding talking about the game. But while the last three wins were nice, Illinois’ upswings in more recent seasons have been more up than Missouri’s, so while Illinois is on a bit of a high point... the Tigers are most definitely not."
Seems even Missouri fans realize that there is a discrepancy between Illinois and Missouri. I don't think Snelling wants to discontinue the series because I suspect it would hurt Missouri more than Illinois.
So, again, I seem to have to repeat myself. If we started playing a better team, say Kentucky just as an example, I think that if Illinois is not blown out every year but rather makes the games close and maybe even wins once in a while that will put the Illinois program on a higher level. It would definitely be a national game every year and people and recruits will see that Illinois has "arrived". But, only if the Illini win sometimes which I think thry can do. And after 10 or 20 years of that series no one will even remember that we used to play Missouri. Well, that last part is probably a little hyperbolic. I am sure people will remember but will they really care to resume the series after playing someone like Kentucky year after year?
Having said that, I think this topic has pretty much run its course. I mean, feel free to respond but I think I have exhausted my points which basically are just saying that I think we could do better than Missouri and that I think it would be beneficial overall and over time for the Illini to do so. But it is just my opinion. And I guess I just can't understand why people are so locked into having Missouri as Illinois' great rival. All things must pass. I just think it is something to consider.
Also, I would like to thank everyone for treating my suggestions/questions with respect and civility. I imagine that given what I have written someone or more than just one could have jumped down my throat and made all sorts of unkind comments. But everyone has been polite and courteous and have offered interesting well thought out responses to my post. Thank you.
MustangWally
- Mayfield
I'd like to see Ohio State play Kentucky in Cincinnati. That would be a near duplicate of our Bragging Rights game in St Louis. That would be on national TV every year.
Not sure. I had it saved on DVR
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
If I were an opposing player and Kofi drove the lane toward me I'd repair to the concession stand briefly for refreshment until the moment of mortal peril had passed.
Well I'll weigh in here....instead of trying to establish another rivalry game, I suggest a 4 team classic, much like what they have in Indy every year with Butler, Indiana, Purdue, and I believe Notre Dame....call it the Midwest Classic or something along those lines (maybe a St. Judes classic...you might even get espnand coaches against cancer to tag into this as well)....have this in Chicago....besides the beloved, invite Marquette, maybe Loyola, Creighton, Iowa State, Louisville or might get Notre Dame or Kentucky, Memphis to come....might even some years get Illinois State or Southern Illinois University depending on the type of teams they have .....I know this wouldn't be the same as the rivalry game we currently have with Mizzo...but duplicating that type of game and atmosphere would be nearly impossible....getting teams from the area I think would guarantee good crowds (and for a good cause St Judes) and could be an event that would garner some national tv exposure .
For the 20th anniversary we could bring back the illinois/north carolina title rematch and make it an annual rivalry game going forward. Maybe they'd be our reserved b10 acc match up
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
That's a good suggestion. I'm from Central Ohio. The problem is that Kentucky (as a basketball program and a state) just doesn't occur at all to most Ohioans, except for Appalachian emigres, though perhaps I'm wrong about Cincinnati natives. It just never comes up in the basketball conversation there in my experience. Indiana and Michigan have always been the big hoops rivalries for OSU (when its program wasn't in the tank).
In addition, even when basketball is going well in Columbus, the following is lukewarm. It's a football town, they don't fill the Schott regularly even when the team is strong, and the fan base is fickle. There's been an ongoing discussion the past decade about whether they should have ever left the 13k-seat St. John Arena (which, like Mackey, has a huge aluminum roof that reflects sound and makes it a tough place for opponents to play) in the late '90s for the 19k-seat Schott.
My friends who remain there still talk about football through the off-season, with only offhand attention to basketball. The only time I hear about OSU hoops enthusiastically from them is when they manage to beat a stellar Illinois team. Even when Matta had his run there, and went to the FF, the energy wasn't anywhere near what that produces in Bloomington, East Lansing or Champaign. They've got a great basketball tradition (three straight NC title games in the early '60s with one NC in that run, and seven BT titles in 12 seasons through '71) but football always overshadows it.
A few additional points. Rivalries are great in part because they don't depend on the teams being great. Yes, Cub Cardinals game are better when they are both sitting at 90 wins a week out. but we still care when they're both at 70 wins a week out. They evolve over time to become important and generally don't stop.
In terms of "doing better" the point above holds. The rivalry exists. So we keep the game. We aren't going to have an annual game against Kentucky because they wouldn't do that. An annual game along the lines of the Braggin Rights game would feature another team comparable to us with plenty of ups and downs (Marquette, Xavier, Notre Dame) that would put you in the exact situation. So I'd love to see an annual game at the UC vs. Marquette or Notre Dame. But I think you'd be less than happy because when Marquette in ten years had consecutive 12 win seasons you'd be off looking for another date because "we can do better."
By the way, especially in its heyday, I'd say lots of schools would love to replicate the Braggin Rights game. Who was able to do that? If you can find some other examples of teams like Illinois (not a blue blood but top 20 program) scheduling an annual game against a blue blood, I'd love to hear it.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
13k is pretty good for UIC, who should literally never be scheduled there again. We drew over 20k+ for #25 Gonzaga while we were unranked, too. We also drew over 20k+ to play an unranked Auburn in 2012-13. If you replaced the St. Francis (PA) game with a Saturday afternoon date at the UC vs. a quality opponent (e.g., even like Oklahoma or something), I guarantee there would have been around 18k there again.
I agree scheduling will be tough, but you would think we could stagger it. Maybe something like this example:
2022-23: vs. Oklahoma at the UC, at Arizona (in Phoenix)
2023-24: vs. Arizona at the UC, at Oklahoma (in OKC)
I’m all for big games in Champaign (like the Challenge and the Arizona game), but I think we’re back to the point as a program where we should be seeking out more big games. We made it work with the UC quite successfully for 20+ years, and I think it’s a cool recruiting tool.
I just don't see why there is a need for another "rivalry" game. We have enough tough games in the B1G and a few huge nonconference games every year. The IL/MO game is a very intense game! Personally, I could care less about us playing KY or anyone like that in the non-conference. I don't like KY at all because of their arrogance but, I don't like MI either for the very same reason. But, MI is in our conference and we have been playing them for decades. Also, I grew up in Detroit, lol.
Game Information
United Center1:15 PM CT December 29, 2012
Coverage: BTN
United Center
- Chicago, IL
87%
Capacity: 20,917
The Braggin Rights game is there for the rivalry, and less so the resume building. Though it is nice when it does actually build our resume (which would also mean Miznoz is pretty good…which means a big crowd and good tv spot).
I think what could scratch your itch is if we become so good we start to get invited to the Champions Classic (or whatever it’s called) in Chicago each year.
THAT checks your boxes I believe and also has (usually) consistent teams in it. It seems MSU is always in it. If Illinois could be the one to replace MSU as the B1G rep and we still had BR, I think all would be happy.
I’m with those that don’t think it feasible for another High Major team to risk a neutral site game every year to play us. The reason we can do it with Miznoz is because that rivalry is so potent. It would be difficult to manifest that sort of potency with another team.
Anyway, I know you’ve already talked your points to death but figured I’d throw in one more time!
I watched it again yesterday on the Foxsports app on Roku (can't remember if it is the Foxsports app or FS1 app). But I don't know how long they keep the replays accessible. You may have to sign in with your service provider (comcast, or whatever) credentials.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
Since I was the a$$ to bring up the United Center games, a topic we've covered at length previously, I'll bring back @Dan's fantastic post on the subject from 2019 for some context:
"Here's to the United Center Tradition streak, a fantastic, unique neutral site series (1994-95 thru 2018-19).
The series thrived due to Illini Basketball's connection with Chicago, and was sustained 25-straight seasons despite the challenging scheduling framework of having the non-conference opponent change year-to-year. That scheduling -- despite the wild swings in appeal of the game year-to-year -- was important as it allowed the UC to be an established part of Illinois Basketball completely on its own, without disrupting anything else on the schedule (and avoided it becoming a stale copy of the great Braggin' Rights series).
The UC tradition streak's downfall was brought about by the lowered excitement level of the program during this current NCAA Tournament drought. I still hate to see the series go out like it did last season -- in a disruptive fireball -- and remain skeptical of Josh Whitman's decision-making ability with regards to the schedule.
Last season's United Center game was a tradition-smashing mess-
* On a Wednesday (traditionally a Saturday game)
* Versus a B1G opponent (traditionally a non-conference game)
* Highly disruptive to move the B1G home-opener away from home (hallmark of the UC series was its non-disruptive nature)
If Illinois was obligated to play at the UC last year, there were 3 proper Saturday non-conference games on the schedule that would've worked. Otherwise, last season was the time to go on hiatus.
Moving forward, a good time to have future United Center games is close to New Year's. That way, it's during the heart of the holiday season with so many people already in Chicago (and Champaign-Urbana emptied out), it doesn't necessarily need to be on a Saturday, and you have a chance for additional buildup in interest with good outcomes in the early season. If the UC game has to be prior to Braggin' Rights in early December, then make sure it's on a Saturday (because then tipoff time is not a huge factor).
Which brings us to this upcoming season-
* Team showed flashes of goodness & greatness last season
* 9 returning players, bulk of the production is returning
* Best player, from Chicago, in most likely his final IL season
* 1 large, talented newcomer
There's real reason for optimism heading into this season. The excitement level, while not where it could be, is certainly on the rise. I thought this upcoming season would be a fine time to play at the United Center. Have the game around New Year's for max ticket-buying time, say this team's capable of having 9-10 wins after a Braggin' Rights victory, boom 10k in the UC and everything's on the up&up. Go Illini"
www.illinoisloyalty.com
"Here's to the United Center Tradition streak, a fantastic, unique neutral site series (1994-95 thru 2018-19).
The series thrived due to Illini Basketball's connection with Chicago, and was sustained 25-straight seasons despite the challenging scheduling framework of having the non-conference opponent change year-to-year. That scheduling -- despite the wild swings in appeal of the game year-to-year -- was important as it allowed the UC to be an established part of Illinois Basketball completely on its own, without disrupting anything else on the schedule (and avoided it becoming a stale copy of the great Braggin' Rights series).
The UC tradition streak's downfall was brought about by the lowered excitement level of the program during this current NCAA Tournament drought. I still hate to see the series go out like it did last season -- in a disruptive fireball -- and remain skeptical of Josh Whitman's decision-making ability with regards to the schedule.
Last season's United Center game was a tradition-smashing mess-
* On a Wednesday (traditionally a Saturday game)
* Versus a B1G opponent (traditionally a non-conference game)
* Highly disruptive to move the B1G home-opener away from home (hallmark of the UC series was its non-disruptive nature)
If Illinois was obligated to play at the UC last year, there were 3 proper Saturday non-conference games on the schedule that would've worked. Otherwise, last season was the time to go on hiatus.
Moving forward, a good time to have future United Center games is close to New Year's. That way, it's during the heart of the holiday season with so many people already in Chicago (and Champaign-Urbana emptied out), it doesn't necessarily need to be on a Saturday, and you have a chance for additional buildup in interest with good outcomes in the early season. If the UC game has to be prior to Braggin' Rights in early December, then make sure it's on a Saturday (because then tipoff time is not a huge factor).
Which brings us to this upcoming season-
* Team showed flashes of goodness & greatness last season
* 9 returning players, bulk of the production is returning
* Best player, from Chicago, in most likely his final IL season
* 1 large, talented newcomer
There's real reason for optimism heading into this season. The excitement level, while not where it could be, is certainly on the rise. I thought this upcoming season would be a fine time to play at the United Center. Have the game around New Year's for max ticket-buying time, say this team's capable of having 9-10 wins after a Braggin' Rights victory, boom 10k in the UC and everything's on the up&up. Go Illini"
Illini Basketball 2019-2020
Color me Orange and Blue, but Tev gives me the willies with what I see as his similarity to Kendall Gill.
www.illinoisloyalty.com