Illinois 88, NC State 74 POSTGAME

Illinijose · Nov 30, 2016

ballislife17 said:
DJW is tough to figure out for me. He is the most talented player on the team, but the BBIQ just doesn't seem to be there. He disrupts the flow of our offense more than Tate, yet he is able to make something out of nothing when you least expect it. I don't think he should be getting 20 mpg like some here are saying but I think 10 mpg will be enough to get some good experience while still sending a message that he needs to learn our offense better (if we have one lol)

In baseball they measure everything and DJW probably has certain measurables or "sabermetrics" that are probably more potential now than production. What is DJW "Win Above Replacement"? Probably not enough sample size, who are our best players in point production vs points allowed? I bet Tracy and Hill our leaders.

Looking back in Illini history we came close to losing both Kendall Gill and Larry Smith early in their careers. But both returned much improved. I think DJW needs to really assess what is most important to him. Can he make a jump from year 2 to year 3 to earn significant playing time. I think where DJW is now he should be playing more, possibly around 15 minutes. I do think AJ is one year away though. But AJ can return in year 3 bigger and more of an all around game. How about Turner (Simeon) who had a very good Senior year after not being much of a factor in previous years.

Illinijose · Nov 30, 2016

combes said:
Until Nichols is eligible in a few games. He will take minutes from Williams and Jordan, IMO.

At the moment that is like rubbing two nickles.

Regarding Kipper his emotions and body language is much more animated (similar to Black) eventhough he hasn't played in 1.5 years. That type of positive attitude I'm sure has made an impression on the coaches and players. That is leadership.

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

Ga65 said:
53% FG, 58% 3pt. Obviously mediocre.

He shoots under 30% from 3pt in his career. Read a book one time for me.

FeelYourPaign · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
He shoots under 30% from 3pt in his career. Read a book one time for me.

Seems pretty reasonable when someone has a two year break in their career to say "Hmmm, things might be different. Maybe I should be open to the potential of a new era."

Ransom Stoddard · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
He shoots under 30% from 3pt in his career. Read a book one time for me.

Do any of your books indicate that something might be improved on with 2 years of work?

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Newman · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
He shoots under 30% from 3pt in his career. Read a book one time for me.

Are you for real or just trolling us? I really can't tell now.

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

FeelYourPaign said:
Seems pretty reasonable when someone has a two year break in their career to say "Hmmm, things might be different. Maybe I should be open to the potential of a new era."

If you think that two years of working on his shot mechanics will somehow transform him into Corey Bradford, you're in for a long season. His shots thus far have been mostly uncontested, and in NY, he couldn't manufacture open looks. He's not a SG, has never been a SG, and never will be a SG.

I've been watching Illinois basketball long enough to know that Alex Legion scoring 15 against MSU, Bertrand scoring 19 against Mizzou, and Griffey going off in Malibu never translate into sustained success.

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

Newman said:
Are you for real or just trolling us? I really can't tell now.

Aren't we all just trolling ourselves by simply being on this forum?

IlliniPuck99 · Nov 30, 2016

Give it to Greene said:
I've never heard of a 'bad win'.... explain what that is ? ?

Hahaha you're right

Should've looked it over before I posted, but you know what I mean lol. Should've probably said "meaningless" win rather than bad.

FeelYourPaign · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
If you think that two years of working on his shot mechanics will somehow transform him into Corey Bradford, you're in for a long season. His shots thus far have been mostly uncontested, and in NY, he couldn't manufacture open looks. He's not a SG, has never been a SG, and never will be a SG.

I've been watching Illinois basketball long enough to know that Alex Legion scoring 15 against MSU, Bertrand scoring 19 against Mizzou, and Griffey going off in Malibu never translate into sustained success.

Yes, I've seen substantial improvement in players. Poster child? Luther head.

Do I think TA stays above 40%? No. Do I think this is his best shooting year? Yes.

You cite single game stats as if they prove that TA's multi game shooting is not sustainable as his best. Pretty weak logic

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
His shots thus far have been mostly uncontested, and in NY, he couldn't manufacture open looks.

Yes, his shot selection is greatly improved and has a lot to do with the improved %.

He's not a SG, has never been a SG, and never will be a SG.

He's a combo.

Newman · Nov 30, 2016

Rayvonte Rice shot 44% from 3 in his last year after shooting less than 30% in his first three years. How is that possible?! I need to read some books..

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

FeelYourPaign said:
Yes, I've seen substantial improvement in players. Poster child? Luther head.

Do I think TA stays above 40%? No. Do I think this is his best shooting year? Yes.

You cite single game stats as if they prove that TA's multi game shooting is not sustainable as his best. Pretty weak logic

If we are really resting our offensive hopes on Tracy Abrams, a career sub-30% 3pt shooter, we have fallen further than I realized.

Your "poster child" had already proven himself as a solid 3pt threat (42% his sophomore year).

I cite those performances to show you how YOUR logic is flawed - you can't assume that by burying some wide-open 3s against SEMO and Detroit, Tracy is all of the sudden a 3pt threat.

FeelYourPaign · Nov 30, 2016

Newman said:
Rayvonte Rice shot 44% from 3 in his last year after shooting less than 30% in his first three years. How is that possible?! I need to read some books..

Hmm, I think he sat out and worked on his game. At least that's what I read

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

Newman said:
Rayvonte Rice shot 44% from 3 in his last year after shooting less than 30% in his first three years. How is that possible?! I need to read some books..

Not sure I can point you to the exact book, but maybe one on simple division. He took 50 less 3 pointers. (and had other shooting threats around him, stopped acting like he was the next messiah, etc. etc.)

Newman · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
Not sure I can point you to the exact book, but maybe one on simple division. He took 50 less 3 pointers. (and had other shooting threats around him, stopped acting like he was the next messiah, etc. etc.)

This is hilarious. You're never wrong, are you?

Greensboro · Nov 30, 2016

Chief86 said:
Not to speak for TC, but when your mom spouts off on Twitter after the game, it makes me think that she has some control over the situation, and at the very least, she has influence.

He still has to make that decision for himself if it is dealing with his mom, family, or someone in his circle, part of college & growing up...I don't think that is what TC is talking about, there has been debate on times who made the choice to leave in cases like Shaw, Ibby, Langford, Colbert, and some on Henry.

Hopefully, we play more like the second half against NCState & it will be easier to work some playing time in for both AJ & DJW. Winning & some playing time will work wonders for everyone's attitude & hopefully give them some confidence moving forward.

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

Newman said:
This is hilarious. You're never wrong, are you?

Took you long enough.

Don't get me wrong - in an ideal world, Tracy keeps shooting the ball well, we make the tournament, Groce somehow still gets fired, Tom Crean poops his pants on live television, and everyone goes home happy. But until then, I will haunt your TA-optimism for all of eternity.

Greensboro · Nov 30, 2016

Bailey said:
Pretty difficult to make that argument for a guy who can't step out to 3 point range. I'm also into the idea of him guarding 4's. He can provide some semblance of rim protection as insurance for Mav and MT's plodding feet.

So we should move Tate to the 5 as well? There is a big difference in Black's game & DJW even they are about the same height. DJW just isn't a big.

FiveStar · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
Took you long enough.

Don't get me wrong - in an ideal world, Tracy keeps shooting the ball well, we make the tournament, Groce somehow still gets fired, Tom Crean poops his pants on live television, and everyone goes home happy. But until then, I will haunt your TA-optimism for all of eternity.

Please explain to me how it's not possible for someone who works on their shot to become a better shooter? Even his mechanics are clearly different, and Rayvonte's were his sr year too. It's obvious the way the ball comes out of his hand.

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

FiveStar said:
Please explain to me how it's not possible for someone who works on their shot to become a better shooter? Even his mechanics are clearly different, and Rayvonte's were his sr year too. It's obvious the way the ball comes out of his hand.

Christ. My argument was that people hopping on the "Tracy is shooting 50% from 3, he's so much better now, he should be our SG, etc." bandwagon might be optimistic. In big games, against tough defenses, he has fallen well short of his production that got him to that 50% mark.

So don't try and spin, "it's not likely" into "it's totally not possible in any situation."

FeelYourPaign · Nov 30, 2016

The original comment was that John Groce has confidence in jcl and ta right now. You disagreed. Fair enough. But who is a two over ta right now? Instead of the long winded thing that I have contributed to, who do you think should play the two instead of Tracy?

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

FeelYourPaign said:
Instead of the long winded thing that I have contributed to, who do you think should play the two instead of Tracy?

Only disagreed with the decision to play Tate and Tracy simultaneously.

JCL. Until he can't stand due to exhaustion.

FeelYourPaign · Nov 30, 2016

ILCommenter said:
Only disagreed with the decision to play Tate and Tracy simultaneously.

JCL. Until he can't stand due to exhaustion.

Sorry. That is complete revisionist history. Go read post#120 again. You said literally nothing about Tate and you said it in a condescending manner. Just in case you want to know why people who can read are annoyed.

ILCommenter · Nov 30, 2016

FeelYourPaign said:
Sorry. That is complete revisionist history. Go read post#120 again. You said literally nothing about Tate and you said it in a condescending manner. Just in case you want to know why people who can read are annoyed.

You can't be serious. It's a shame you had to comb through all those posts just to reach another ill-founded conclusion.

"Groce likes the combo of Abrams and JCL at the 2 and you really can't argue about that."
"I can. Tracy isn't a 2. He hit a few 3-pointers against cupcakes, and now people seemingly forget how extraordinarily-mediocre of a shooter he is."

I had previously commented multiple times about the idiocracy of playing Tate and Abrams at the same time.

Are you annoyed that you are wrong? Or that you are lacking a sense of humor? Or all of the above?

Illinois 88, NC State 74 POSTGAME

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