Tate turned the ball over with 07:42 left in the first half and was subbed out at 07:35 and did not return to the floor for the rest of the game. The Illini were up 23-20 before the turnover and the score was tied 23-23 when Tate was pulled from the game.
Illinois 88, NC State 74 POSTGAME
Tate turned the ball over with 07:42 left in the first half and was subbed out at 07:35 and did not return to the floor for the rest of the game. The Illini were up 23-20 before the turnover and the score was tied 23-23 when Tate was pulled from the game.
Illinidreamin
- Paris, IL.
Normally I don't respond to this stuff for or against. That being said, besides maybe, poor timing cause we all want to feel good about a win, and some of this stuff seems like a downer, valid points were made and it isn't like it went to childish levels. Admire his pluck and rejoinder to all comments against. He stated a opinion and defended it. I don't know if he intended to start anything or not but I thought he argued well. If he isn't a lawyer probably should have been. Ya'll have a good day and enjoy each day we aren't given them by right. Smile a lot and cry alittle everyday I believe the words of Jimmy V.
P.S. I tend to love this forum and most in it. Its like family., sometimes you grin, sometimes your mad, sometimes you just sit back and shake your head.. Now come on tell me it aint true...LOL
It's not that you disagree, it's that you're arguing about something that no one was really implying, purposefully at least. Nobody thinks that Abrams should be the 2 guard for the rest of the season. He's shooting well during a period that JCL was still recovering his shooting touch so I don't think it was the worst to have two point guards out there but it was used longer that I had hoped. His hot streak might not last the rest of the season, but he's shooting well now and people should be happy about it. There's hope that he will shoot well the rest of the season, but people aren't expecting for hit to shoot at this high of a % the rest of the way. If he finishes in the high 30's from 3, I'll be happy.
I'm not really offended by your posts but it seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Those types of accounts don't tend to last long on loyalty.
Nice post, thanks.
If I have hope for this season, and I'm on record with a preseason 10-8 BIG and a tourney bid, it's that these two guys plus Tracy give the team enough heart to weather a crappy start. Right now, I'm not thinking it happens, but that's my ray of hope.
If I try to take off my Illini googles and look at things as objectively as I can, I'd still say we have good upside:
*JCL is in a soph slump, but the light could go on.
*TJL makes freshman mistakes, but opens up the offense for the other guys, and manages acceptable defense in a trial by fire
*With more weapons, Hill can play within himself and start looking more like the guy we saw in the cupcake games. Right now, he's good, but not able to carry us.
*Thorne's sluggishness has a physical component that clears up, and he's able to defend at a significantly higher level.
*The team develops better habits on defense as the season goes, and we actually start believing we can get stops
I think like most people on this thread, I agree Tracy isn't going to be a 50% or most likely 40% shooter--whether it be from 2 or 3.
And yes, Rice did take less shots, he became more selective and took better opportunists. Maybe he didn't become a 'better' 3 pt shooter in terms of pure skill, but he got smarter about when and how he took those shots. In my mind, that makes him a better 3 pt shooter (I'd rather have someone take a higher percentage if they aren't sure they'll make the 3).
Abrams has taken a lot of completely open threes, mostly hitting all of them, that'll change as competition increases, but he isn't forcing them up. In the end of the season, its hard to imagine his shooting percentage regresses back to that of his career average. Not only does his shot look better, but he's absolutely taking care of the ball better in terms of correctly utilizing his touches, whether it be driving or dishing, instead of taking low percentage shots.
So, TA isn't going to shoot 50%. Anyone who thinks that is crazy. However, he is going to be a better player than he was before, at least in the shooting column of the stats sheet. His BBIQ has increased. So maybe to you, he's improvement is a mirage due him taking less shots, but having a higher percentage, ala Rice.
Regardless, you cant really argue he isn't one of our best 5 players, as of now. Maybe when conference play picks up, JCL will come into his own, taking some of TA minutes away. TA has always been an undersized combo guard. On our team he looks like a great ball handler and floor general, which he isn't--not saying he can't do both, but his skills are much more suited for the 2. When you play TA instead of JCL at the 2, its very close to playing 2 PG's, which is what Groce wants to run.
Side note: Does anyone remember Tracy throwing up 2 to 3 teardrop shots every game before injury (and mostly missing them)? Maybe my memory is fuzzy cause I hated watching him do that... but I dont think hes tried more than 2 all this year, which makes him look like a better player if you ask me
Side note: Does anyone remember Tracy throwing up 2 to 3 teardrop shots every game before injury (and mostly missing them)? Maybe my memory is fuzzy cause I hated watching him do that... but I dont think hes tried more than 2 all this year, which makes him look like a better player if you ask me
I don't remember too many teardrops, but he did have a tendency to drive in too far and either get trapped or stuffed. He's done that a few times this season but it seems like a less frequent occurrence so far.
Overall agree that his decision making is much, much improved.
illinoisfan11
- Peoria, IL
I totally agree. There are still several components this team needs to realize its potential, but I'm hoping we started to see things "click" Tuesday night.
JCL seems to be coming out of his slump. He hit some big shots Tuesday night and had some nice drives too. He had one really nice pass and also a nice finish when he drove the ball. Also, watching him in shoot around was awesome. His stroke his so pure. Not only did he VERY rarely miss, but he very rarely even hit the rim. Let's hope he's turned the corner!
If you follow this board regularly, you'd see there are plenty cynics. It's not all sunshine and rainbows here. The optimism comes in waves, sure. Others pitch in plenty of realism & sarcasm as well. It's the folks who argue for the sake of arguing with snarky arrogance belong who under the bridge.
If Tracy shoots the same amount of 3s the rest of the way, but only at a 30% rate (pretty reasonable to expect he'll at least shoot that), then he'll end up shooting 37% from 3 for the year which is good enough to be playing part time at the 2.
Yup. The tenacity and pomposity will no doubt serve you well in life, but you may ruffle feathers from time to time on internet message boards.
Fwiw, literally almost everyone anticipates a regression to the mean with Tracy's shooting. However, it's clear that his shooting and decision making have improved significantly over the past two years. One thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that we're lucky to have Tracy healthy and on the floor. He's a great kid. Hopefully he continues to excel.
Only perhaps at a self-important plaintiffs' firm. I refuse to hire an attorney who never met an argument he didn't think he could win.
So he took 55 less 3-pointers (156 in 13/14 vs 101 in 14/15), but made only 2 fewer total in his last year (46 vs. 44), yet continuous practice on his shot over the years & in his time off was not the reason for his improved shooting? Ah gotcha, now I understand you.
I don't think anyone is saying that Abrams will be the shooting messiah this season, but it can be reasonably expected that his shooting will be better than in years past. You can fix a shooting motion, contrary to popular belief. So it's not far off to believe Tracy could play the SG role for this team.
P.S. for Rice to have regressed to his shooting % from his junior year in his last year, he'd have to go 2-for-55 which is worse than Tate's 3pt shooting % for his career (5-for-53)
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
Listen up 2L, you're arguing that Tracy's shooting percentages from when Meyers Leonard was on the team are more relevant than those from the current season. Does that sound like a winning argument?
ChazzReinhold
Mom! The Meatloaf!
He took 50 less 3's because he played in 11 less games. Per game was 4.21 vs 4.45.
ChazzReinhold
Mom! The Meatloaf!
Commenter, where's your comment on my post above. Was he so much more selective by taking 0.24 less 3 attempts per game?
haasi
- New York
Amazing that this has generated so much tumult. Tracy is pretty much just taking good looks - except at end of shot clock. His shot selection has been great. And his accuracy is way improved. After two years of working on his shot rigorously, awesome to see it so improved. Whether he's shooting better than we can expect him to for the rest of the season, probably. But no reason to think that he'll go back to shooting 27% when all the evidence shows that he's significantly improved his shot and has been disciplined about shot selection.
Ray's FT % also went from 73% to 81%, he must have been more selective there, too.
If we're looking just at offense, perhaps. However right now JCL is a one trick pony. He's really good at that trick, but as you note, in conference play the scouting is very good and teams will do their best to take it away. Then there's ball handling, defense and rebounding. And leadership.
There's also the fact he isn't going to play 40 minutes, so having Tracy play 20 min at PG and another 10 or so at SG seems sensible. From what I've seen, Jordan's not ready to step in there.
Interesting.
haasi
- New York
Ya, I don't necessarily like him as our starting 2, but getting significant minutes there seems reasonable, especially if Lucas shows he's worthy of plenty of minutes at the 1 against good competition. Maybe Lucas gets 20-25 mpg at the 1, JCL 30 mpg at the 2, and Abrams fills in the rest (25-30 mpg) at both positions.
Abrams continued ability to get good looks will depend upon other guys making theirs and our ability to penetrate and move the ball. Hill will definitely take a lot of defensive attention, JCL hopefully will as well. We need other pieces like Black, Finke, Lucas, and hopefully our bigs to demand attention and be able to pass out if Abrams is going to continue to get good looks. If Abrams is our clear #2 weapon this year, the quality of his looks is gonna decline in a big way.
haasi
- New York
The thing about JCL, as WVC commented, is he's gonna have to develop other aspects of his offensive game aside from 3pt shooting. He showed a little willingness to drive against NC State. Needs to develop that confidence. Last year he got blocked and stymied a million times trying to drive. He's a 6'3 college guard with reasonable strength and athleticism and a reasonable handle. Given his physical abilities and shooting ability, he should be able to drive and create looks for himself. If he can develop that over the course of this season, will be a testament to this coaching staff. If not, the opposite.
The one where the NC St player under the basket actually ran away? Yeah, that was nice. Once a season isn't enough.
77% of his shots are 3s, that's his thing.
Mark Gottfried!!!!
The one where the NC St player under the basket actually ran away? Yeah, that was nice. Once a season isn't enough.
77% of his shots are 3s, that's his thing.
This take was actually weak. He had another that didn't go in that I thought was better (may have been previous game). I agree, I want him to go to the basket more, but most of the time he gets the ball, it is a decent shot opportunity anyway. He'll need to diversify a bit before conference play, they know that.