Let's say you weren't privy to this board and had no preconceived notions of where Petro played previously and his hype....watching these games has he done anything deserving of more minutes at the expense of our other guards?
Illinois 88, Ohio State 80 Postgame
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Dee was the face of college basketball and a fantastic player but Deron was the engine of that offense imo. That's not to take anything away from Dee or Luther because they were fantastic but Deron was special. Dee and Luther were much better defenders imo though.
That teams ball movement was incredible. Luther averaged nearly 4 assists(3.8) per game and was 3rd on the team behind Dee(4.5) and Deron(6.8).
To put some perspective on that, Boswell leads the team in assists at 3.5 this year. Kasparis averaged 4.7, and Domask 3.9. 4ish per game is often enough to lead a team and that team nearly had 3 guys do that.
Pretty sure that DB's comment came soon after the euphoria after a great win. No, he's not a lottery pick. Given his lack of physical development, he'd still be a massive project at the NBA level. At 6'6", when he starts getting up, stuffing the ball and showing some true explosiveness vs the unbelievable craftiness and maturity that he has at a young age.... he'll be ready. His arms are like twigs and he looks like a freshman. That's why we have a great strength and conditioning program. He needs that badly.
You made a great point. Let's wait until March and see how he held up physically. The dog days of playing in the Big Ten, which is late January thru February, will give us a good pulse. We're not even halfway through December.
One last add. This draft is LOADED. They sat that if Flagg came out this year and not last....he might have been the 6th pick, not the 1st.
Long way to go.
And he can do all that years from now after he's drafted
Not calling you out specifically, but this is rinse-and-repeat convo of Riley last year...the NBA cares very little about where freshman prospects are at in terms of physical development. Like, 90% of NBA rookies need to fill out and get stronger. It's extremely far down on their list of concerns. If you're good enough, you get drafted, even if you're a twig
And he can do all that years from now after he's drafted
Yeah, NBA teams have been drafting skinny teenagers for years and years (I agree with pretty much everything else he wrote though)
Will was slight of frame as well, but had a 6-8 wingspan at 6-8 height whereas Keaton is 6-6 with a 6-10/11 wingspan... Keaton is a much better ballhandler and seems to play with more maturity and poise. I think he is the better shooter of the two as well. His mental processing and quick decision making is a 1% trait imo, you just don't see that often at all. I think Keaton's long skinny arms are deceiving as you can see him get in a scrum and win rebounds against post players, not to mention his ability to finish through contact.
The thing that he also mentioned that I agree might save us is this draft being exceptionally strong.
You also see Keaton backing guys down and getting fouled a lot more than Will. He doesn’t play as skinny as he looks.
Yes that did help his shooting percentage but he was also 43.4% from 3 that season, which contributed more to his TS% of .636 than his being 61.1% from 2 (i.e. his 3pt shot was actually more efficient than his 2 pt shot that season).
skyIdub
"I can't tell you. Secret."
The thing to notice about Keaton right now is how smoothly and slowed down he is during the game. B1G season game one.
He’s not rushed, he’s patient and deliberate. And that shooting stroke!?? Spread that sh$t on my English muffin.
Wait….thst sounds….nah f it! Spread that buttery J on my English muffin!!
Even KJ looked rushed and had difficulty slowing the game down.
Wagler is special. You can see it.
He’s not rushed, he’s patient and deliberate. And that shooting stroke!?? Spread that sh$t on my English muffin.
Wait….thst sounds….nah f it! Spread that buttery J on my English muffin!!
Even KJ looked rushed and had difficulty slowing the game down.
Wagler is special. You can see it.
Thanks for sharing!
Wagler has been outstanding the last couple of games (and really good all year). But I think we don't give Mirkovic the same praise, (and he is certainly not getting the same amount of plaudits from the national folks). However, in looking at both freshmen stats side by side, they are almost identical with a slight advantage to Mirkovic.
Mirkovic - FG% 47.1, 3FG% 35.9, FT% 83.7, Reb 9.5, Assist 25, TO 19
Wagler - FG% 43.6, 3FG% 37.0, FT% 82.8, Reb 5.2, Assist 26, TO 12
I know Wagler probably has the ball in his had slightly more, but both freshmen have been unbelievable.
Mirkovic - FG% 47.1, 3FG% 35.9, FT% 83.7, Reb 9.5, Assist 25, TO 19
Wagler - FG% 43.6, 3FG% 37.0, FT% 82.8, Reb 5.2, Assist 26, TO 12
I know Wagler probably has the ball in his had slightly more, but both freshmen have been unbelievable.
This is interesting, yes.
David actually has a higher usage rate, 24.3% to Wagler's 20.9%.
Now, usage rate doesn't really measure "how much they have the ball in their hands", so just to be clear here, it measures level of involvement in offensive plays:
100 * ((Player FGA + 0.44 * Player FTA + Player TOV) * (Team Minutes / 5)) / (Player Minutes * (Team FGA + 0.44 * Team FTA + Team TOV))
But it's significant anyhow, imo.
Mirk had a couple games where he shot poorly from 3, but we were (and still are, to a degree) at a point in the season where its early enough that good/bad games will cause percentages to fluctuate a lot. He goes 0-3 that percentage might dip below 30%, then next game he goes 3-5 that percentage is back up to 36%. His free throw percentage is at a good enough sample size and he's converting them at 84% so I tend to think the guy might actually be a pretty good shooter (yet the shooting form/mechanics look sort of funny to my naked eye).
Who is they, Flagg would have been the first pick in about every draft including this year.
Even so I am hoping to see Keats' first college game dunk soon.And he can do all that years from now after he's drafted
MDchicago
- Lake Norman NC
Mirk has been fantastic for a frosh, but he does play a little sped up at times leading to some out of control shots, bad turnovers, etc. Remarkably, Wagler has few if any of those types of plays, which why he’s probably been the better frosh so far. Also think Wagler makes fewer defensive mistakes.
Field of 68 breaks down Illinois win vs Ohio State
Interesting piece at the end where they express an opinion that Illinois is actually a very physical team, which is opposite of what a lot of folks have said here for most of the season
Just thought the different perspective was interesting
sacraig
- The desert
We seem to have bursts of physicality that show we are capable of being a very physical team, broken up by stretches where no one wants to get their hands dirty. Honestly, I think it's just something that can be chalked up to the team still forming an identity since there are so many new faces. The seem to get along well off the course (from what we can see, anyway), but they still need to learn how to play as one unit on the court.
My bad, lol he pisses me off so bad that I can't even get his name right.
Even when Mirkovic is "sped up" he still has a better FG% than Wagler.
Rewatched the game and had some additional takeaways:
4 fouls in 1st 10 mins, 44 fouls in the last 30 mins.. I believe it was 11:30 mark in 2H Illinois gets whistled for 3 (4?) straight fouls without even 1 second ticking off the clock.. and a lot is often made of officials' egos getting involved, and I typically shrug that off, but in this game it seemed every time a player complained to an official they were whistled for a foul on the next play lol.. just to add one last blow here, Jeffery Anderson? I'm middle aged and from a very rigid military family, but if I were in a position where I was leading these men I would ask them to perform their jobs with professionalism, gravity and solemnity.. none of this high knee BS would fly, sorry not sorry
A few of Thornton's threes in 1st half were 3-5 feet behind the line.. you just can't guard guys that deep in CBB who have his ability to drive.. at the 5:40 mark in 1H KB extends to defend him near the "y" in Buckeyes about 4-6 feet past half court and Thornton just gets a screen and heads to the bucket.. then 2 possessions later we chose to defend him the same way, check him out deep... he got another screen and went right around.. just very hard to stop when a guy has that ability to shoot deep shots but can also get around the most adept of defenders if given a good screen.. the thing that finally worked was we continued to guard him deeper, but when he got around the initial screen we made sure we had a big step up to the three point line to deter.. we also started going at him on offense and made him guard and that helped a lot too.
Tilly was very effective in the 1H, got shut down (and in foul trouble) in the 2nd half due to increase in effort in 2H Tomi.. unsure if this lately has been him conserving energy in the 1H so he can give it everything in the 2H as a result of needing to increase the conditioning.. he should be nearly back to full speed there imo, but who knows- it sure seemed this was the case in most of the previous games as well.
This was talked about a bit the other night, but the double Ivisic lineup outscored them 15-8 the last 5 mins of the half... this lineup will excel against teams that aren't super athletic up front or do not have a 4 who can put it on the deck.. is this intriguing when we play Michigan? They have plenty of athleticism in Morez, but will he be able to dribble drive and render this ineffective? I don't know.
Literally did not notice the shoulder brace (or some sort of protective apparatus) KB wore the entire game, don't know how I missed that the other night.. seems sort of obvious now why he hasn't been fighting through screens much after that injury.
Wagler goes to his left and uses that off hand with ease, just add that to the scouting report I guess.. glad he plays for us, kid is scary good and just looks like he does it all without a ton of energy.. never gets tired and seems like that could be why.
Why were we defending Gabe Cupps like he is Dee Brown? You don't need to close out with force on him and you don't need help-side defense, he's not quick nor athletic and not an effective shooter or driver, just a guy who eats minutes at guard because they have little depth.
I missed the commentary at the 7:20 mark in the 2H about the Serbian night club on our team bus... lmao good stuff
Lets revisit the toughness discussion after the Misery game and see where we think we are at... we outslugged Tenn down the stretch, scoring 41 points against a Rick Barnes defense in that 2H, and in the 2H of this game we had 2-3 blue shirts right there on nearly every play
Stojakovic's 3s pretty much just rimmed out, bad variance happening... he shot 32% from 3 last season on 5 attempts per game as the sole focus of the opponent's defense, I'll give this some time to regress to normalcy as well
The number of possessions they had Thornton just stand in a corner in the 2nd half is still incomprehensible.. was he fatigued because we started making him gaurd?
Diebler also used zero timeouts in the 1H, were a couple times he should've used one, imo.
4 fouls in 1st 10 mins, 44 fouls in the last 30 mins.. I believe it was 11:30 mark in 2H Illinois gets whistled for 3 (4?) straight fouls without even 1 second ticking off the clock.. and a lot is often made of officials' egos getting involved, and I typically shrug that off, but in this game it seemed every time a player complained to an official they were whistled for a foul on the next play lol.. just to add one last blow here, Jeffery Anderson? I'm middle aged and from a very rigid military family, but if I were in a position where I was leading these men I would ask them to perform their jobs with professionalism, gravity and solemnity.. none of this high knee BS would fly, sorry not sorry
A few of Thornton's threes in 1st half were 3-5 feet behind the line.. you just can't guard guys that deep in CBB who have his ability to drive.. at the 5:40 mark in 1H KB extends to defend him near the "y" in Buckeyes about 4-6 feet past half court and Thornton just gets a screen and heads to the bucket.. then 2 possessions later we chose to defend him the same way, check him out deep... he got another screen and went right around.. just very hard to stop when a guy has that ability to shoot deep shots but can also get around the most adept of defenders if given a good screen.. the thing that finally worked was we continued to guard him deeper, but when he got around the initial screen we made sure we had a big step up to the three point line to deter.. we also started going at him on offense and made him guard and that helped a lot too.
Tilly was very effective in the 1H, got shut down (and in foul trouble) in the 2nd half due to increase in effort in 2H Tomi.. unsure if this lately has been him conserving energy in the 1H so he can give it everything in the 2H as a result of needing to increase the conditioning.. he should be nearly back to full speed there imo, but who knows- it sure seemed this was the case in most of the previous games as well.
This was talked about a bit the other night, but the double Ivisic lineup outscored them 15-8 the last 5 mins of the half... this lineup will excel against teams that aren't super athletic up front or do not have a 4 who can put it on the deck.. is this intriguing when we play Michigan? They have plenty of athleticism in Morez, but will he be able to dribble drive and render this ineffective? I don't know.
Literally did not notice the shoulder brace (or some sort of protective apparatus) KB wore the entire game, don't know how I missed that the other night.. seems sort of obvious now why he hasn't been fighting through screens much after that injury.
Wagler goes to his left and uses that off hand with ease, just add that to the scouting report I guess.. glad he plays for us, kid is scary good and just looks like he does it all without a ton of energy.. never gets tired and seems like that could be why.
Why were we defending Gabe Cupps like he is Dee Brown? You don't need to close out with force on him and you don't need help-side defense, he's not quick nor athletic and not an effective shooter or driver, just a guy who eats minutes at guard because they have little depth.
I missed the commentary at the 7:20 mark in the 2H about the Serbian night club on our team bus... lmao good stuff
Lets revisit the toughness discussion after the Misery game and see where we think we are at... we outslugged Tenn down the stretch, scoring 41 points against a Rick Barnes defense in that 2H, and in the 2H of this game we had 2-3 blue shirts right there on nearly every play
Stojakovic's 3s pretty much just rimmed out, bad variance happening... he shot 32% from 3 last season on 5 attempts per game as the sole focus of the opponent's defense, I'll give this some time to regress to normalcy as well
The number of possessions they had Thornton just stand in a corner in the 2nd half is still incomprehensible.. was he fatigued because we started making him gaurd?
Diebler also used zero timeouts in the 1H, were a couple times he should've used one, imo.
LOL, funny stuff and it's all real. He's missed some huge calls in our games which is why he sticks in our memory , but apparently he's graded as one of the top referees in the game which is why he was doing final fours and finals.
Honestly says more about the ncaa and the rules and interpretations of the rules they put in place.
On the broadcast of wisky and Nebraska last night they said how wonderful it was that the ncaa has gotten hook and holds out of the game.
That was a tough moment for me.
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