Illinois 89, Maryland 70 Postgame

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#176      
ChiefGritty
HensonHall71 said:
Yes - that whole debate seemed in the category of "we've won 7 in a row, who can we complain about". I thought it was clear he wasn't scoring much for a couple of games, because we didn't need him to, we're asking him to play a different role than his previous teams. But he's been a highly efficient scorer all year shooting 52% on the year which is a huge improvement from his previous stops where he had to be a high volume scorer.

Last night he scored 30 points on 18 shots! He's stepping up with Kylan out which is great to see. I don't think he'll make 4 threes every game, but we don't need him to - if he rebounds, plays tough D and gets to the rim on offense, he'll be terrific for us and those are the aspects of his game that I think we can count on
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"Keaton Wagler is a lottery pick" was a black swan event that shook the snow globe of everything this team was built to be.

But the rest of the team and staff have in general done a fantastic job of recognizing and incorporating that in a way that has led to team success. Andrej has been unselfish because we've needed him to be. Without Boswell that changes a bit, and I'm sure he'll be able to adjust.
 
#177      
IlliniFan42
HensonHall71 said:
Yes - that whole debate seemed in the category of "we've won 7 in a row, who can we complain about". I thought it was clear he wasn't scoring much for a couple of games, because we didn't need him to, we're asking him to play a different role than his previous teams. But he's been a highly efficient scorer all year shooting 52% on the year which is a huge improvement from his previous stops where he had to be a high volume scorer.

Last night he scored 30 points on 18 shots! He's stepping up with Kylan out which is great to see. I don't think he'll make 4 threes every game, but we don't need him to - if he rebounds, plays tough D and gets to the rim on offense, he'll be terrific for us and those are the aspects of his game that I think we can count on
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This criticism wasn't made in a vacuum, though, and this is how you can tell who watches the press conferences and who doesn't. Brad has repeated in multiple press conferences that the non-scoring parts of the game were a concern with Andrej. The message has been "if he doesn't defend or rebound, he's not getting a chance to score" and it's clear Andrej has worked on these parts of his game.

Brad called it maybe his best all-around game of his career and said the challenge was for him "to be a 1-A defender not a 1-B defender" and that "it's amazing when you worry about defense how offense finds you".
 
#178      
HensonHall71
ChiefGritty said:
Happy Sport GIF by Fighting Illini Athletics



Yeah, there's a difference between struggling to guard in individual matchups versus lack of understanding and coverage mistakes that impact the whole team.

But like, Petro has been a professional basketball player for years, it really surprises me to see how he's struggling to pick up the nuances of the game. Maybe he's too used to a different style whereas a Mirkovic is younger and can learn it without having to un-learn something else?

We will be a lot better off if we can get Petro going. We are massively over-dependent on hero ball by an 18 year old, heroic as that 18 year old has played.
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I think it's really hard to judge a player off of 3-4 minute of playing time a game in infrequent games. We haven't given him a chance to adjust to NCAA ball yet. We would have to play him 25 minutes and game for a few games to really know what he is. Which I think is a very good distributor (which he has shown good pick and roll passing ability and drive and dish capability), he can blow by defenders and get to the rim (but needs to finish better) and he can be a capable three point shooter. And yes, he's lost his assignment on defense almost every time he plays which earns him an immediate benching, he needs to pick up our defense quicker.

The bigger point is, we don't need him to play right now. I wouldn't say Keaton is playing hero ball right now, I think it's the opposite, he's initiating the offense for others and getting his when he needs to - he had 8 assists last night and 0 turnovers, he's not playing the hero ball role where he needs 20 shots a game, he's playing very under control. Hence, we don't need Petro to adjust to college ball, it just doesn't make sense for this team right now, but I think Petro would be a very good point guard after an adjustment period if he did get the time to do that.
 
#179      
NarrowJ
Ga65 said:
Brandon Lee just doesn’t appear to be 6’4”. Is it the camera man?
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I think part of it is Illinois is the tallest team in the nation, so yeah get him out there with Wagler, Stoj, Mirk and an Ivisic and he is going to look small

Other part of it is that most players embellish height to some degree (he’s probably 6’3”)
 
#180      
Fly Illini Fly!
ChiefGritty said:
Happy Sport GIF by Fighting Illini Athletics



Yeah, there's a difference between struggling to guard in individual matchups versus lack of understanding and coverage mistakes that impact the whole team.

But like, Petro has been a professional basketball player for years, it really surprises me to see how he's struggling to pick up the nuances of the game. Maybe he's too used to a different style whereas a Mirkovic is younger and can learn it without having to un-learn something else?

We will be a lot better off if we can get Petro going. We are massively over-dependent on hero ball by an 18 year old, heroic as that 18 year old has played.
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"Hero ball" when your primary stat line is 8ast, 0TOs?
 
#182      
travelin' man
The user name really checks out. I listened to the Minny game in Toronto, then flew to Montevideo, Uruguay in time to listen to the Maryland game. I'll be here for two months which will take me to the first weekend of MM, then I'll be on a ship that doesn't support streaming. I'll be depending on Loyalty members to keep me in the post-game comment loop so I can keep jonesing on Illini Bball. By the time I get off the ship in Lisbon, MM will be over and the Illini will have won the tournament.
 
#183      
Emerson Bigguns
HensonHall71 said:
I think it's really hard to judge a player off of 3-4 minute of playing time a game in infrequent games. We haven't given him a chance to adjust to NCAA ball yet. We would have to play him 25 minutes and game for a few games to really know what he is. Which I think is a very good distributor (which he has shown good pick and roll passing ability and drive and dish capability), he can blow by defenders and get to the rim (but needs to finish better) and he can be a capable three point shooter. And yes, he's lost his assignment on defense almost every time he plays which earns him an immediate benching, he needs to pick up our defense quicker.

The bigger point is, we don't need him to play right now. I wouldn't say Keaton is playing hero ball right now, I think it's the opposite, he's initiating the offense for others and getting his when he needs to - he had 8 assists last night and 0 turnovers, he's not playing the hero ball role where he needs 20 shots a game, he's playing very under control. Hence, we don't need Petro to adjust to college ball, it just doesn't make sense for this team right now, but I think Petro would be a very good point guard after an adjustment period if he did get the time to do that.
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He gives us "something else", when something else is needed offensively... like it was in the first half against Minnesota. (Needed a strong dribbler/distributor to drive into the lane against the zone and bend the defense, rather than just shooting over it) Last night, Plan A (shooting over it) was working just fine.

Despite his experience, I think the speed still really bothers him on defense. I don't know how much of that can be fixed by watching and on film, but in this league I don't know how many possessions you can sacrifice to give a player the experience he needs to get used to it, without it potentially costing you a game. Most B1G games are going to come down to a handful of possessions at most. (especially the ones we have left)

He just doesn't seem to be responding well to the adversity he has faced here, or Brad's brand of coaching. Probably not an ideal scheme for his style of play. Perhaps a personality clash? BU ain't for everyone. He may be better suited to a coach who uses the word "positionless" a little less often.
 
#185      
IlliniFan42
HensonHall71 said:
I think it's really hard to judge a player off of 3-4 minute of playing time a game in infrequent games. We haven't given him a chance to adjust to NCAA ball yet. We would have to play him 25 minutes and game for a few games to really know what he is. Which I think is a very good distributor (which he has shown good pick and roll passing ability and drive and dish capability), he can blow by defenders and get to the rim (but needs to finish better) and he can be a capable three point shooter. And yes, he's lost his assignment on defense almost every time he plays which earns him an immediate benching, he needs to pick up our defense quicker.

The bigger point is, we don't need him to play right now. I wouldn't say Keaton is playing hero ball right now, I think it's the opposite, he's initiating the offense for others and getting his when he needs to - he had 8 assists last night and 0 turnovers, he's not playing the hero ball role where he needs 20 shots a game, he's playing very under control. Hence, we don't need Petro to adjust to college ball, it just doesn't make sense for this team right now, but I think Petro would be a very good point guard after an adjustment period if he did get the time to do that.
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I have to assume they see Petro in practice and players like AJ Redd are getting by him.
 
#187      
ChiefGritty
Fly Illini Fly! said:
"Hero ball" when your primary stat line is 8ast, 0TOs?
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Perhaps "hero ball" implies selfishness more than I'm intending.

In crunch moments and possessions we're giving Wagler the ball and asking him to create, which is not what anyone dreamed this team would look like last August.

He's doing phenomenally well in those situations and just has an innate composure and decision-making ability stunningly far beyond his years. It's hard to see him falling into some of the bad habits that saw KJ lose his luster last year, for instance.

But he's still an 18 year old freshman, and I'm mindful that as the season goes on and the competition gets stiffer it gets harder to go to the option you want, the more variety we can have the better.
 
#190      
ptgrd23
Petrovic needs to

1.lose the attitude and pay attention to what coaches say

2. Focus on feeding others. Take layups. Stop shooting 3’s

3. Play best defense you can.

4. Sprint back on defense, dive for every loose ball.
 
#191      
Calvin
ChiefGritty said:
Perhaps "hero ball" implies selfishness more than I'm intending.

In crunch moments and possessions we're giving Wagler the ball and asking him to create, which is not what anyone dreamed this team would look like last August.

He's doing phenomenally well in those situations and just has an innate composure and decision-making ability stunningly far beyond his years. It's hard to see him falling into some of the bad habits that saw KJ lose his luster last year, for instance.

But he's still an 18 year old freshman, and I'm mindful that as the season goes on and the competition gets stiffer it gets harder to go to the option you want, the more variety we can have the better.
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Most of the time I've seen Hero ball on this forum, it's been a knock on guys not trusting their teammates and taking more shots than they should. Think we saw it a lot more under Groce.

Wagler plays within himself. I can't think of a play where he forced things where he was taking a bad chance, even with his high volume. Yes he's gotten stuffed occasionally or taken a contested 3, but his decision-making has been astounding.

76 assists
27 turnovers
True freshman who can score, and do so efficiently. Insane.
 
#193      
Se Il Illini
IlliniFanTX said:
My question is how do we not foresee this on film? I mean he's got 5 years of film playing overseas... was the mindset "get him on campus and we'll teach him how to defend/care"?
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We have a winner here. Obviously in the staff's evaulations someone saw something in Wagler that almost everybody else missed. However with Petrovic it is seems to bet the opposite. I spent a whole season last year yelling at the TV because the talented point guard made very poor decisions. My vocal chords have gotten much needed rest with the freshman guard Wagler at the helm. I guess sometimes the evauation process is hit or miss.
 
#195      
PepeSilvia
Illinited said:
I don't know why Petrovic didn't get more minutes last night, especially the last 8 minutes with the game well in hand.
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He clearly got in Brad's doghouse for some reason. Just like Tre White last year when White just stopped playing in February.

Btw, White has been fantastic this year.
 
#196      
HouTexIllini
Combo said:
Right on. And with Kylan out I think Lee actually makes more sense than Petro because Lee is a much better defender. But I hope both can contribute.
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I’ve been giddy of Lee ever since his signing. Can’t have too many NYC grit kids and in the short stints he’s had he’s resembles flashes of several previous Junk Yard Dogs we’ve had except he arrives with shooting skills most of the didn’t enter with. I can see him as a taller Boswell when he gets time to figure it out in live competition.
 
#198      
SummerofGeorge
ChiefGritty said:
Perhaps "hero ball" implies selfishness more than I'm intending.

In crunch moments and possessions we're giving Wagler the ball and asking him to create, which is not what anyone dreamed this team would look like last August.

He's doing phenomenally well in those situations and just has an innate composure and decision-making ability stunningly far beyond his years. It's hard to see him falling into some of the bad habits that saw KJ lose his luster last year, for instance.

But he's still an 18 year old freshman, and I'm mindful that as the season goes on and the competition gets stiffer it gets harder to go to the option you want, the more variety we can have the better.
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I worry about him starting to press more with Bam out. Saw this a little on Thursday. 1-9 from 3 and also forcing things a little. Stay within yourself young man, you have been remarkable on all counts thus far!
 
#199      
I-L-L 1318
Indy Illini Fan said:
He’s awful defensively … And to be honest we really don’t need what he brings … Who’s he playing over ?? Even with Bam out … Our other guards are better … Lee is better …

Step 1 of playing for Brad … Don’t be awful defensively …

Mistakes are allowed but not all the time … Every time Petro is on the floor he’s lost defensively or out of position … It’s unacceptable …
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Was it Mirk who screamed at him after giving up an open 3? I could hear someone but couldn't pick out who it was.
 
#200      
Fly Illini Fly!
SummerofGeorge said:
I worry about him starting to press more with Bam out. Saw this a little on Thursday. 1-9 from 3 and also forcing things a little. Stay within yourself young man, you have been remarkable on all counts thus far!
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Really not understanding this narrative. He had 8 assists, 0 turnovers. When was he "forcing" ?

Just missed some open shots he normally makes. Happens to everybody. Literally last game he was 4/8.

If you'd like to tell the story through the box score, fine. There's just way more to it than just that 3pt%. Guy almost had a triple double with no turnovers.
 
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